He did great as Mayor. Stephanie is trying her way. Maybe it will work or maybe it won't. I just think O'Malley needs to stay clear of it.

How embarrassing of me!

and I don't like it.

Dunno about 'embarrassing,' but right to question what's going on.

A lot of young black males who lived in Baltimore at the time and got arrested for bullshit reasons would beg to differ.

Why are you posting it here now?

Part of that record is his disrespect of the rights of his own citizens when he was mayor. He was sued by the ACLU and the NAACP and rightly so. The settlement required the city to reign in the police.

Basis for that?

...you realize that's completely made up.

Who knows if he'll embrace that at some later date? It could happen, sure. If it does, it will be appropriate to post on the internet or elsewhere that he 'still believes.' Right now, this is as good as a lie.

He has been touting his record on crime reduction in Baltimore continuously. Maybe he just changed his mind yesterday, but I doubt it, lol.

"The sharp reduction in violent crime that occurred on Martin O'Malley's watch as mayor of Baltimore is a central theme of the speech he gives as he travels the country and lays the groundwork for a presidential campaign..

But ongoing criticism from the city's current mayor could focus attention on an aspect of O'Malley's crime-fighting record he never mentions in New Hampshire or Iowa: A soaring arrest rate during his tenure in Baltimore that angered civil rights groups and locked the city into a years long legal dispute."

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/bs-md-police-omalley-politics-20141007-story.html#page=1

...it's bizarre to defend that.

Best of luck.

from the second article you just posted:

Rawlings-Blake's administration — facing allegations of brutality in the city's police department — argued in a report last week that the O'Malley years "ignited a rift between the citizens and the police, which still exists today."

The report from Baltimore Police Commissioner Anthony W. Batts offers no evidence to back up the claim. O'Malley supporters note that the strategy — now 14 years old — has been rehashed through three elections during which O'Malley received overwhelming support in African-American communities often affected by zero-tolerance policing.

That's not good enough for you, I guess. Do you need a quote from today that he still thinks his policies were good ones?

...where's his quote that he 'still believes' it's a 'great idea?'

Your title is an assumption, at best, and not supported (at least in this post) by any factual quote or statement from the Governor.

It's not enough that I cited an article that says he has been campaigning on his record on crime in Baltimore? Does that sound like a disavowal of his crime policies? I would love for O'Malley to admit that too many people were arrested. But he never has. He just keeps saying how awesome his approach to crime was. To me that indicates that he still thinks his approach was a good one. Do you have any evidence that I am wrong? No, you just keep demanding that I provide even more evidence that I am right.

tolerance policing."

Sounds good.

That was just two years ago that he had a policy that arrest young black men for bullshit reasons and dramatically changed their lives — they can't get hired, can't support a family, and all the other negatives that come with having a police record.

That should seem rather obvious. You think all of a sudden he doesn't support that kind of blanket-arrest policing? That's what the article reports that's he's trying to get the new mayor to re-implement.

I'm glad this came out as many were beginning to look at him as the kind of "liberal" dem to get behind for a presidential run.

I was one but I've certainly changed my mind.

...apply this to some relevant issue in this campaign - better yet, find a recent statement from the Governor about his mayoral position on this policy - and you've got some life in this dead horse you've been beating in almost every post you've made on O'Malley. Posting a 2013 article as if he's campaigning on this issue, or just remarked on it, is slippery politics.

I wonder how Rawlings-Blake feels about the Governor today since she's assumed a leadership role at the DNC? You do realize that they are political allies, with O'Malley's brother serving as her chief of staff in 2013?

His record is relevant to his presidential aspirations. You know that.

And, yes I know that he and Rawlings-Blake are political allies. I bet she was pissed though when he came after her about crime. And she completely kicked his butt in the ensuing debate.

...yeah.

from your article:

Edward T. Norris, who as O'Malley's second police commissioner helped to implement much of the city's crime-fighting strategy, said Rawlings-Blake's criticism is unfair. Norris said O'Malley went out of his way to engage communities and seek their support for his policies.

The current city administration is "citing things that are just factually and completely incorrect because it sounds good," Norris said. "We brought in the community. You can do both, and people just don't want to accept that."

The issue has never stuck politically. Then-Gov. Robert L. Ehrlich Jr. tried to use it against O'Malley in the 2006 gubernatorial election, but black voters turned out for O'Malley in record numbers, according to exit polls. Ehrlich raised it again during his unsuccessful campaign to unseat O'Malley in 2010.

There is little to indicate such criticism would be any more successful in a presidential campaign...

What I care about is that O'Malley's policies sucked and that they are one reason why he shouldn't be the democratic candidate for president.

And Norris is completely wrong. "We brought in the community." Yeah, they brought a whole lot of them in to be booked.

...that's perfectly fine to make that criticism. Many, including the NAACP, who sued the city, agree.

But, ask the NAACP what they think today...

Leaders at the NAACP — the group that brought the 2006 lawsuit against the city — said they no longer believe O'Malley should be held responsible for the police strategy. Gerald Stansbury, president of the Maryland State Conference of the NAACP, said the organization has a solid relationship with the governor.

He pointed to O'Malley's effort last year to repeal the state's death penalty — an NAACP priority.

"Clearly, the police problems go well beyond Martin O'Malley," Stansbury said. "There's been ongoing mistrust for some time."

absurdly harsh, especially to POC. Don't avoid the real issue.

...I'm not going to be drawn into a debate in a misleading post over a 2006 Baltimore police policy that even the NAACP says he 'shouldn't be held responsible' for anymore.

Come back to me when you have some relevant, current statements from the Governor.

I have admired and learned a lot from many of your posts, especially those on military issues. You generally don't shy away from discussing the real issues. But here we have a real issue about O'Malley's record and instead of discussing the actual things he did, you settle for a few quotes by his defenders and you say that you won't discuss the issue unless I can find a "current statement" by O'Malley that addresses it. I don't get it, but you are still one of my favorite posters on DU. So have a good night.

...and you haven't presented a credible account here. What you've offered is a mixture of charges and defenses which are summary, at best. The Baltimore Sun is not always a source unbiased and unaffected by local politics

You have quotes from his police chief, contrasted against quotes from his successor's police chief. I'm supposed to weed through that and come to some reasonable conclusion? Okay, I have. I've taken the time to highlight opinion on the issue from the NAACP who brought the lawsuit in 2006. They seem clear that they don't hold O'Malley to the same standard you have here. voters who live in the areas affected haven't held O'Malley accountable at the polls, either.

What I remember is the Ehrlich campaign (republican) making a big deal out of this issue during a campaign in an attempt to drive a wedge in O'Malley's support in one of his strongest districts and failing to get anywhere with this.

I am interested in knowing why you've focused on this issue, elevating it above all others? Are you a resident affected by the policies? A Marylander? Thing is, it's just not as big an issue here among Democrats as it's a cynical wedge issue used by republicans in my state to discount and disparage O'Malley's record on crime. Here you want me to place this issue above all else as a disqualifying one for his potential candidacy. I'm not going to participate in that. It's a familiar and odorous political tactic which most people who care about Democratic issues in my state have rejected.

I will allow that, if this becomes some relevant campaign issue in the presidential race and O'Malley comes off like a 'jerk' (to quote you in another post), I'll certainly address that. However, as I've shown you, most Democrats in Maryland, including the majority of voters in the neighborhoods affected, have moved past this and aren't holding the same grudge you are - that's also including the NAACP who brought the initial suit.

As someone not directly impacted by the arrests, but certainly intimately familiar with the dangerousness of many of the Baltimore neighborhoods, I have to wonder if you're actually in the well-being of that community, or just using this issue as a political hammer against O'Malley?

Maybe I should post the details of the lawsuit. Part of the problem with getting to the facts is that news coverage will quote O'Malley supporters defending O'Malley and critics attacking him, and the average person has no way to know who is telling the truth. I am a resident of Maryland living about 15 minutes from downtown Baltimore, and I am pretty familiar with what really happened, though I was not myself victimized. I know one of the cops who did the booking on many of the weekends when O'Malley had his police sweep through the neighborhoods, and what he describes is not pretty, but how do I prove the veracity of his account here?

But you are right that I need to find a more detailed account of what when on, one that has more credibility than the word of an anonymous poster. The ACLU person quoted in the one story I linked to might be a good place to start.

I agree with you as well that the use of this story by republicans to try to undermine O'Malley is, of course, just odorous politics and should not be taken seriously. But if the polls are to be trusted, the vast majority of residents of Maryland don't want O'Malley to be the democratic candidate, and there are reasons for that.

I object to O'Malley for many reasons and am horrified at the thought that he might be the democratic pick in 2016. I also don't want HRC because, as I am sure you would agree, she is way too hawkish. What's a democrat to do?

southern, Calvert County, at Patuxent River. Where are you???

...near Elkridge.

a lot.

Leaders at the NAACP — the group that brought the 2006 lawsuit against the city — said they no longer believe O'Malley should be held responsible for the police strategy. Gerald Stansbury, president of the Maryland State Conference of the NAACP, said the organization has a solid relationship with the governor.

He pointed to O'Malley's effort last year to repeal the state's death penalty — an NAACP priority.

"Clearly, the police problems go well beyond Martin O'Malley," Stansbury said. "There's been ongoing mistrust for some time."

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/politics/bs-md-police-omalley-politics-20141007-story.html#page=2

It was his policies that led to the massive arrests and he knew it was happening. He is fully responsible.

..Vattel, a poster on DU, says the NAACP's view on this is 'absurd.'

Got it.

so the issues involved are much older.

is relevant.

Back in 2008, Obama's record as a community organizer was considered relevant and important. So it should not have been relevant?

He would never pander so shamelessly to law 'n' order types these days.

That's so incredibly old, there's probably no one alive who can even remember 2013!

(Seriously, it's only been a year and three months since the end of 2013, and the people complaining are treating it like it's something that happened decades ago in O'Malley's youth. This is still relevant and will need addressed if he does run for office, since it speaks volumes about his beliefs on how police behave towards citizens.)

DU is fucking bizarre sometimes.

I couldn't agree more.

for loitering or throwing a candy wrapper on the ground or sitting on someone else's stoop or . . . because IYAD, then only an "ideologue on the left" would objectto it. I lived in MD at the time and I know one of the cops that worked downtown and had to deal with all the "suspects" brought in. Many of them were released without charges because the arrests were such bullshit. Many others were charged with minor offenses. It was a disgrace.

or ties to the private prison industry?

I hate reading old love letters
For they always bring me tears
I can't forgive the way they rob me
Of my sweetheart's souvenirs

you have no idea what O'Malley's current belief is, as the article is 2 years old. Your title presents it as being current, and that is a lie.

There is also no perspective in your hammering on this issue. O'Malley was trying, as many city mayors were, the broken window theory of policing, something that initially seemed to have a great deal of success in New York City. It was a hot theory for awhile; it has been discredited largely because it creates huge resentment in the population the police are meant to serve.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory

You're acting like the aggressive policing policy of black men was a youthful discretion of O'Malley's.

Get real. It wasn't long ago at all. It's very relevant that this is bought out here on DU of a person many were starting to look at as a viable dem presidential candidate.

Your suggesting that he's different now is as silly as saying Dick Cheney doesn't think like he did about the Iraq invasion in 2013 — just one year and three months ago.

I thank the poster of the OP for bringing this to light.

For God's sake Ferguson, with it's own aggressive policing, is still in the news and you want to dismiss the damage to the black men's lives who were caught up in this blanket arrest policy under O'Malley?

I'm betting those men don't who can no longer get a job because of bullshit arrests.

IMO O'Malley is out as a viable candidate, and I was one of the ones who was looking at him as a good progressive.

Not anymore.

O'Malley's last term as mayor ended in 2007

Which would mean he still believes in it even though he was last mayor in 2007.

That is not what I look for in a progressive candidate.

Try again.

I see O'Malley is trying again with his mass arrest policy by urging the new mayor to go back to it.

That is not what I look for in a progressive candidate.

But maybe it's okay to some since the blanket policing and mass arrests was only directed towards POC — guess they don't matter.

I just posted this in another thread. He's definitely another Third Way Democrat.

He's socially liberal, economically conservative. He supported the Hyde Park Declaration of "Third Way" centrism and adopted the manifesto, "A New Politics for a New America":"As New Democrats, we believe in a Third Way that rejects the old left-right debate and affirms America’s basic bargain: opportunity for all, responsibility from all, and community of all."

He wants Progressive Internationalism: globalize with US pre-eminence; he supports Retirement Savings Accounts & Chained CPI; wants to increase spending on military and police; build more prisons.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Martin_O%60Malley.htm

Sounds like another Dem/Rep third way hybrid, Do you know where he stands with the US Chamber of Commerce? It has been my experience that they give good ratings only to Conservadems that dislike entitlements. If they have rated him, it would help me glean where he really stands on economic justice (populism).

If the Op article is correct, he is also into profiling and arresting large numbers of minorities to appear "tough on crime", a position I personally loathe.

But to be honest, I don't trust what they say without reviewing what they've done, Obama said all the right things in 07 and 08 and did 180's on almost all he claimed.

I do not wish to be fooled again, I really do not like his "lock up everybody and sort em out by who can afford lawyers" approach to crime described in the OP article for one. Thank you for his speech however, I do listen to those as well, I just don't give them that much weight since Obama.

As a Governor he's had a lot of executive experience, upon which he can rely.

You may omit the first 20 or so minutes.

We have got to stop electing Third Way candidates for leadership positions.

I already knew about this from O'Malley, hell I seen The Wire, but it is more than "ideologues on the left". His successors went to a community policing and from all the information I gathered it is the right approach.

It is something he'll have to deal with and I appreciate you posting but for some odd reason it will make him appear "tough on crime".

To quote him: "In my city, Baltimore, we had a mayor, Martin O'Malley, who decided he was going to escalate the drug war. Zero tolerance was his mantra, and he put it out there: "Get everybody off the corners. Clear the corners." He was running for governor, so, for political reasons, he was basically trying to clear the street a year in advance of the election. We were filming The Wire in Baltimore at the time. And it got to the point that my African-American crew members and actors couldn't get back to their hotel without getting locked up, because they were driving while black. It was just presumed they were out there to cop drugs. So every now and then I'd have to go down and bail out my assistant director or one of my actors. Now, that was what was happening to people who were somewhat notable and had something to say to the cop. Can you imagine how many regular Baltimoreans went down to the city jail charged with nothing?" http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/mar/30/david-simon-americas-war-on-drugs

And Simon was a police reporter in Baltimore for over a decade before doing the Wire.

Mas arrests were a disaster that came along with the militarizaton of the police.

It changes him opinion of him.

This is disheartening. I had thought that O"Malley could be a Dem primary choice for me, assuming neither Warren nor Sanders are in it.

handles O'Malley. If he becomes a media darling start digging.

realistic shot at the Oval Office, much as some DUers do.

Two words: Howard Dean.

ETA: I was for Kerry from the time he announced, and I was not as into politics as I am now. Even so, my jaw dropped the first time I saw his whoop video. Katie Couric introduced it, using words like what he had done had some people wondering about his sanity. followed by something like "Here's the clip. Judge for yourself." Affter that, every network and station seemed to have it on a loop.

Last edited Fri Apr 3, 2015, 04:17 AM - Edit history (1)

It was stunning, literally stunning, how many times it got played. My head was going in circles and, with every revolution, it said,

If this is still representative of his thinking, that's a problem. I don't care how anybody tries to spin it. Nobody wants more liberals to enter the race to oppose third way dems more than I do, but mass incarceration is NOT a liberal value.

I wonder where he is coming from with a comment like that.

He's emitted all kinds of noise about regulating Wall Street & addressing the Piketty Split, but most of this seems to be recent chaff thrown our to enhance his standing with and bedazzle any Democrats to the left of JoeMentum.


He doesn't buy this stuff, but he's happy to use it.



"Ideologues of the Left." Dammit, I know I've complained about this before, but as a Professional Leftist I just don't seem to be getting paid enough.

but I have to admit his stance on policing does not help him in my eyes. His use of the "idealogues on the left" canard is troubling.