very soon if something isn't done to get these people to chill the fuck out.

everyday it seems like.

that their number is growing.

The day Obama was elected about 25% of this country completely went insane, they still are, and they are very dangerous

....other than Eric Rudolph, they just haven't tried to blow anyone up yet.

I just hope they don't set off a shit storm if they lose in 2016 (but if they run American Taliban poster boy Theocrat Cruz as their candidate, they will go down in flames).

May 26, 1983: Joseph Grace set the Hillcrest clinic in Norfolk, Virginia ablaze. He was arrested while sleeping in his van a few blocks from the clinic when an alert patrol officer noticed the smell of kerosene.[20]

May 12, 1984: Two men entered a Birmingham, Alabama clinic shortly after a lone woman opened the doors at 7:45 am. Forcing their way into the clinic, one of the men threatened the woman if she tried to prevent the attack while the other, wielding a sledgehammer, did between $7,500 and $8,000 of damage to suction equipment. The man who damaged the equipment was later identified as Father Edward Markley. Father Markley is a Benedictine Monk who was the Birmingham diocesan "Coordinator for Pro-Life Activities". Markley was convicted of first-degree criminal mischief and second-degree burglary. His accomplice has never been identified. Following the Birmingham incident, Markley entered the Women's Community Health Center in Huntsville Alabama, assaulting at least three clinic workers. One of the workers, Kathryn Wood received back injuries and a broken neck vertebrae. Markley was convicted of first-degree criminal mischief and three counts of third-degree assault and harassment in the Huntsville attack.[21]

December 25, 1984: An abortion clinic and two physicians' offices in Pensacola, Florida, were bombed in the early morning of Christmas Day by a quartet of young people (Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons, Kaye Wiggins) who later called the bombings "a gift to Jesus on his birthday."[22][23][24] The clinic, the Ladies Center, would later be the site of the murder of Dr. John Britton and James Barrett in 1994 and a firebombing in 2012.

March 29, 1993: Blue Mountain Clinic in Missoula, Montana; at around 1 a.m., an arsonist snuck onto the premises and firebombed the clinic. The perpetrator, a Washington man, was ultimately caught, convicted and imprisoned. The facility was a near-total loss, but all of the patients' records, though damaged, survived the fire in metal file cabinets.[25][26][27]

May 21, 1998: Three people were injured when acid was poured at the entrances of five abortion clinics in Miami, Florida.[28]
October 1999: Martin Uphoff set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, causing US$100 worth of damage. He was later sentenced to 60 months in prison.[29]


May 28, 2000: An arson at a clinic in Concord, New Hampshire, resulted in several thousand dollars' worth of damage. The case remains unsolved.[30][31][32] This was the second arson at the clinic.[33]

September 30, 2000: John Earl, a Catholic priest, drove his car into the Northern Illinois Health Clinic after learning that the FDA had approved the drug RU-486. He pulled out an ax before being forced to the ground by the owner of the building, who fired two warning shots from a shotgun.[34]

June 11, 2001: An unsolved bombing at a clinic in Tacoma, Washington, destroyed a wall, resulting in $6,000 in damages.[29][35]

July 4, 2005: A clinic Palm Beach, Florida, was the target of an arson. The case remains open.[29]
December 12, 2005: Patricia Hughes and Jeremy Dunahoe threw a Molotov cocktail at a clinic in Shreveport, Louisiana. The device missed the building and no damage was caused. In August 2006, Hughes was sentenced to six years in prison, and Dunahoe to one year. Hughes claimed the bomb was a "memorial lamp" for an abortion she had had there.[36]
September 11, 2006 David McMenemy of Rochester Hills, Michigan, crashed his car into the Edgerton Women's Care Center in Davenport, Iowa. He then doused the lobby in gasoline and started a fire. McMenemy committed these acts in the belief that the center was performing abortions; however, Edgerton is not an abortion clinic.[37] Time magazine listed the incident in a "Top 10 Inept Terrorist Plots" list.[38]

April 25, 2007: A package left at a women's health clinic in Austin, Texas, contained an explosive device capable of inflicting serious injury or death. A bomb squad detonated the device after evacuating the building. Paul Ross Evans (who had a criminal record for armed robbery and theft) was found guilty of the crime.[39]

May 9, 2007: An unidentified person deliberately set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Virginia Beach, Virginia.[40]
December 6, 2007: Chad Altman and Sergio Baca were arrested for the arson of Dr. Curtis Boyd's clinic in Albuquerque. Baca's girlfriend had scheduled an appointment for an abortion at the clinic.[41][42]

January 22, 2009 Matthew L. Derosia, 32, who was reported to have had a history of mental illness[43] rammed an SUV into the front entrance of a Planned Parenthood clinic in St. Paul, Minnesota.[44]

January 1, 2012 Bobby Joe Rogers, 41, firebombed the American Family Planning Clinic in Pensacola, Florida, with a Molotov cocktail; the fire gutted the building. Rogers told investigators that he was motivated to commit the crime by his opposition to abortion, and that what more directly prompted the act was seeing a patient enter the clinic during one of the frequent anti-abortion protests there. The clinic had previously been bombed at Christmas in 1984 and was the site of the murder of Dr. John Britton and James Barrett in 1994.[45]

April 1, 2012 A bomb exploded on the windowsill of a Planned Parenthood clinic in Grand Chute, Wisconsin, resulting in a fire that damaged one of the clinic's examination rooms. No injuries were reported.

April 11, 2013 A Planned Parenthood clinic in Bloomington, Indiana, was vandalized with an axe.[46]

(Wikipedia)

Chill indeed. There are nut-cases in every group - that doesn't mean these nuts have any influence...

the over the top types are becoming the new normal in the GOP. Plus their rhetoric, extreme as it is, masks the nearly as extreme rhetoric by GOP mainstream types like Ted Cruz and Rand Paul and makes the latter two seem more moderate.

And they do have influence, as witnessed by the constant flow of new restrictions on abortion, RU486, and other health issues.

is going to get any traction.

IMHO - let these folks rail all they want - they will serve as an object lesson...

...cannabis in the country's water supply.

The evangelical nutjobs, including the mainstream Republican party, are so outrageous that I can't tell what's real and what is satire.

That's why I don't read Betty Bowers. It's too close to the folks who want a Christian theocracy in the United States.

If it's real, they can go to hell. If it's not, well, it got a whole bunch of folks in an uproar.

Many millions of women died in the past because they didn't get a C-section. They are a surgical necessity for some women because they are not big enough to deliver a baby's head vaginally. The natural childbirth nuts don't seem to understand that. It is truly a life or death matter.

but you're right, it has gotten to be just about impossible to tell the difference.

Many of my friends have had "natural births" overseen primarily by midwives, whether at home or in a hospital setting, and I'm pretty familiar with stats and discussion points around the topic. I know of no natural birth advocate who disputes that c-sections are a life-saving necessity for some women, and that anything other than a normal, low risk pregnancy ought to be overseen by an obstetrician in a setting equipped to handle emergencies. The point of contention is with our nation's very high rate of c-sections and other interventions, some of which have little to no evidence of benefit (such as episiotomies, which do not seem to reduce tearing). It is highly implausible to me that around 1/3 of women cannot deliver without a C-section, but that is the current rate at which they occur. None of that means that vaginal birth is possible or advisable for every woman. I don't know of anyone nutty enough to claim otherwise (except a satirical religious group on social media).

I had a deformed pelvis is still on DU. In fact they are in this thread. This person has never met me and doesn't know me.

In a thread on DU, I was informed by a wanna-be constitutional scholar that my children are not "natural born" citizens since they were both born by c-section.

seriously

i mean, if god sends a killer into your home, it's his will for you to die, right?

how dare you even think of fleeing, let alone fighting back or worse, arming yourself -- actually planning to fight god's very own angels of death?

i'd say "logic" that these people use is mind-boggling, but of course, it isn't logic at all.

From the OP article:

"The Lord has given us many wonderful blessings in our life. None more precious than the God given right to bear arms. Every firearm is an extension of his hand. Every round like a heavenly embrace from Jesus himself, upon your adversary.
God's peace!"



I'm beginning to wonder if this isn't a satire.

but let death happen doesn't apply.

perhaps it's because there's a woman involved? particularly a woman who surely had sex? then death is god's will, of course, shouldn't interfere with that....

You're right, they shouldn't own guns and let gods will take over.

Are these assholes actually preventing c-sections, or just ranting about them? If they're just ranting, throw it back in their faces and make fun of them.

If we can learn from history let's visit the history of the anti-abortion. Ten years ago there were facilities that provided these services in Alabama and Texas. Now there are one or two in each of these states. If we can stop this now we can save ourselves from the deprivation of necessary medical treatments that may surely come from letting these lunatics run free.

One has osteogenesis imperfecta (brittle bone disease); a vaginal delivery would shatter her pelvis like a vase dropped on the floor. The other has an immune system deficiency that also calls for a C-section for some reason. All four kids (two each) are lovely, thank you very much.

treatments or all treatment, if it's not up to you? Seems to equate 'god' and 'death'.

And a micropreemie who needed months of NICU care. Whatever their other faults they avail themselves of real medicine when required.

Because personally I think that they're delicious.

baby die because it couldn't exit the birth canal. Sometimes you can get a twofer!

I don't know if this is real or satire, but it's gotten so hard to tell the difference these days. If real, these religious whack jobs need to keep their noses out of decisions made by a woman and her doctor and quit practicing medicine without a license.

I assume that they feel it is God's will that men who can't get an erection, shouldn't be getting an erection, as it is Gods will they can't have an erection?

or from IVF or any other needed medical treatment like removal of fibroids, etc.

It's in the bible you know....

Starting with giving birth, the most dangerous time for women.

Even if you're in a car crash, have an infection, a gun shot wound or cancer? (Like Reagan's emergency treatment by GWU Hospital when shot and hemorrhaging?). Insanity!

If the OP story is true, by their reasoning all medicine and all life saving actions would be wrong. So what doe these people do when they get sick.

My wife is 5'2".. and pregnant with our son. We were hoping for a natural birth, but alas, it wasn't to be. The gynecologist said her pelvis was too narrow for our son's big head (and he did have a big head) after about 15 hours of labor, my son was delivered by C-section at 11:37pm. She started her labor at about 7am.

I consider the people who have done their job highly professional and competent. I wouldn't give any priest or a non-medical quack the time of the day regarding medical issues.

Also, welcome to DU!

Lego crazy already!

My wife had an emergency cervical cerclage and spent the next 4 months on bed rest to save the pregnancy.

Last year one of my religious nut relatives actually told me (paraphrasing, as I can't quote EXACTLY), "Oh I pray God doesn't give her a horrible life, or cancer at an early age in retribution for you two circumventing His will that she miscarry."

Yeah... THAT is the way some of these people think.

The jaw drop icon is exactly what I must have looked like.

I just shook my head and said "your version of religion is evil." And walked away.

It is way past time we taxed those religious institutions which wish to get involved in politics FOR WHATEVER REASON!

The personal beliefs and the right to practice those in private was never infringed but now they are infringing on the rest of us.

Sorry fundies! Politics is pay to play and I am not talking about buying politicians and lobbyists.

Jesus would have a conniption fit if he saw what you are doing. Moses reaction after descending the mountain comes to mind.

to say they are against god's will, is incredibly ignorant. By that reasoning, all surgery, all medical intervention, including aspirin is against god's will.

Idiots.

Seems to me if a woman wants a section she should get one (I know I'd want one )

And it has more to do with timing and doctor convenience than health. The C-section rate is about 30% of all births in the U.S. In some hospitals it is over 50%. Most international health organizations recommend a rate around 15%. C-section is more expensive and has a longer recovery time and risk of complications than vaginal birth, though undoubtedly there are times when the procedure is necessary and life saving, and the people in the OP are virulent misogynist whackjobs.

... it's that the docs are pushing them??

It isn't all self-interest on the part of doctors, by any means. They are schooled in a certain line of thinking that tips in favor of caution and prevention--too far, in my opinion. I believe in Great Britain it has either been suggested or is currently the practice that most normal, low risk births are managed by certified midwives, with obstetricians offering backup support in case of true crises, with the result that surgical interventions are far lower than here, without any increase in negative health outcomes for women or newborn infants.

There is a mid-wife office (practice?) in our area that she has frequented since her last pregnancy (for all her ob-gyn, uhhh, "needs" ).

It's kind of frustrating really that the "birthing" event has become by and large so sterile and institutional - which is what has made our mid-wives so attractive as an option.

Too, it just seems unconscionable the cost of a normal delivery and a healthy baby (where the attending physician shows up basically to "catch" the baby in the last moments) - around $10K - amazing!

It's simply not credible that from 30 to 50 percent of woman can't give birth vaginally.

You do realize it's major surgery, yes? With at least a six week recovery time for most women, sometimes longer. However, I'm not going to go tell any particular woman the she had no business having the surgery. I don't know better than her doctor, that's for sure. And more to the point, the idiot who is saying women have them because they are selfish and lazy is completely wrong.

trust me when I say you don't want one. It's major surgery. Nothing like trying to change your newborn's diaper when it feels like your guts are about to spill out onto the floor while someone holds a blow torch to your scar.

their bodies?

lead to the deaths of the mother and child. I just don't get the lack of simple biology by the RWers, they should all be required to pass a biology test before driving and taking oaths of office.

to Brownback that Kansas adopted a law that forbides women on welfare from having C-sections with taxpayer funds.

Females to swallow the camera for a vaginal exam.

After all these years of racist Obama-bashing and all the rest of the foaming mouth rantings of this kind of people I am surprised anyone would think this is meant as satire. I am sure there are people who sincerely (if insanely) think this is the truth. If it were not for C-sections the odds are our two children would have died before they could be born as our first child did. And then our daughter turned out to have a similar physical condition which was caught in time because of our horrific experience. So now we have two happy, healthy and flourishing grandkids.

Does it make me less of a christian to say that if one of these clowns were to interfere with a C-section in my family I wouldn't mind putting one of their heavenly, God inspired bullets right between his/her eyes?

Oh, okay. If it does I guess I'll just have to live with it.

The day is coming when people like these will have to be put down.

The child's immune system benefits greatly by passing through the birth canal.

We are talking about women's lives. And their children also.

Brazil has one of the world's highest rates of cesarean deliveries: Some 80 to 90 percent of women in private hospitals in the country give birth via cesarean section. In some hospitals that number climbs to 99 percent.

http://www.npr.org/2013/05/12/182915406/c-sections-deliver-cachet-for-wealthy-brazilian-women

I just wanted to pass some info -


Some Brazilian doctors request bribes if a woman wants to avoid a c-section, since they find unscheduled vaginal births inconvenient.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/10/natural-birth-c-section-choice-brazil-forced-pregnancy

that a c-section saved their life and the life of their babies, when in reality that's not necessarily the case. I was told that. I was told my pelvis was too small for my 6.5 lb baby. That I would always need c-sections. That's just the way I was built. 100 years earlier I would've died, they said.

Then I went on to vaginally birth a bigger baby with a bigger head. Apparently my doctor was wrong. I've met plenty of women who were told the same thing who went on to birth larger babies. I've come to believe it's something unethical doctors like to tell their patients to get them to comply. And they do this because of the risk of law suits. As was said by another doctor I saw, no doctor ever got sued for the c-sections he did perform, only for the ones he didn't.

Martin Luther: "If they (women) become tired or even die, that does not matter. Let them die in childbirth. That is what they are there for."

It's hard for me to understand how women ever enter Christian churches, Catholic or Protestant. They are all misogynist to the core, worshiping a cruel misogynist god. I support Lot's wife.

who perform CPR?

Government dollars are spent on training them.

Surely Christians should not support such training with tax dollars.

crazier than needle-dicked bugfuckers.

We live in a fascinating, albeit pathological, time. Every day the religulously insane say something even more disconnected from reality than the batshit nonsense they said the day before.

I am increasingly thinking we are done as a society.

Times up!

Yeah, mean, cruel and bitchy, sorry. But if they want to insist on applying such stupid principals to themselves, then by all means let them. Let them kill each other off and do humankind a big favor.

Has anyone else noticed how these Fundie freaks are pretty much all the same, no matter which gods they allow to run rampant in their empty little skulls? It's all about hating, oppressing and destroying any miniscule vestige of empowerment that women have.... They try to attack and destroy that which they fear most in the names of their imaginary gods.

It's nuts out there.

I guess adding "having a good chance of living through childbirth" is one Affirmative Action project too many?

Must be a slow news day...

Lone nutcases have a disturbing record of late with gaining adherents to their nutjob causes. "What the hell does Jenny McCarthy know about vaccinations?" gets to "Holy shit, people are dying of measles again" in a repulsively short time. While ignoring the fanatical rantings of a fool seems the most judicious course, perhaps it's better to smack this down, early and hard, before this self-appointed expert gains any kind of a following.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I just don't see any possible way that an "C-sections are against God's will" law is going to gain any traction as it is an obvious separation of church and state issue.

This is a bridge too far, and giving these folk the courtesy of condemnation will just empower them - IMHO.

So the unborn child is god. It seems the writer is polytheistic.

And were in distress and they had to take them out 7 weeks early. All three of us would have died were it not for a C section.
I despise these fucking people with the intensity of ten thousand white hot suns.

I delivered my first breach daughter back in 1979. She was not in distress, but even then the hospital was in a panic and thought she should be an automatic C-Section. I had an older doctor then who told the hospital staff "let US show you how this is done." He did warn me, and had all the backup necessary if something went wrong, that he would never attempt this if baby was in distress, or if I had not taken Lamaze.

Far worse today with too many "automatic C-Sections" for the convenience of hospitals, and women. I have no problem with a true medical emergency, but not solely for convenience of doctors, hospitals, or women.

Where does the term come from? JULIUS CAESAR who was born by this method. Fine, but don't abuse it.

That's exactly what happened to us -well, to my ex. Why do we hate God? Maybe that's part of God's Plan?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]“If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.”
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)[/center][/font][hr]

I've been married to the same man for 29 years. We are still married. I think it happens a lot. I guess we will see each other in hell?

Until we're all back living in caves and dying of diphtheria.

And 'your tattoo makes you a horrible parent'

The sites are all related. I'm 'friends' with all of them on Facebook. They're total poe sites

Thank's though.

from satire? Poe's Law, as you say.

Whose mothers die? This is real misogyny. I guess they figure all women are alike and it makes no difference to a kid if his mother raises him or not.

NO priest - ANYWHERE - can tell me what I'm allowed to do with my body, certainly not a male priest!

When they too can get pregnant, whether they want to or not, ONLY THEN can they make ANY pronouncements on that subject.

I was a very small boned woman with a 9 1/2 lb. breech son. One or both of us would not have survived a vaginal birth.

The idiot doctor insisted I try a vaginal birth with my second child, and she got stuck in the birth canal because her head was too big. After 40 hours of labor, my uterus ruptured and I hemorrhaged on the operating table during the emergency c-section, almost killing me & my daughter.

I now have two beautiful, talented, successful children who probably wouldn't be here without modern medicine.

I can't believe I just shared this personal info on the internet, but the people on this thread who seem to think that we just go through this procedure for fun make me furious.

We shouldn't have to explain the problem in great detail. It's like trying to push a sofa through a door.

I have heard too many horror stories like yours where it was obvious the woman needed a C-section and the baby was too big, but the "idiot doctor" insists on futile labor. Glad you made it!!!

due to the chord wrapped around his neck, it was strangeling him. He/we might have died without the emergency C section I got. There was no other option. Death, its what the gop appreciates most.