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KamaAina

(78,249 posts)
Mon Apr 6, 2015, 04:07 PM Apr 2015

Automakers Say You Don’t Really Own Your Car

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/04/automakers-say-you-dont-really-own-your-car

EFF is fighting for vehicle owners’ rights to inspect the code that runs their vehicles and to repair and modify their vehicles, or have a mechanic of their choice do the work. At the moment, the anti-circumvention prohibition in the Digital Millennium Copyright Act arguably restricts vehicle inspection, repair, and modification. If EFF is successful then vehicle owners will be free to inspect and tinker, as long as they don’t run afoul of other regulations, such as those governing vehicle emissions, safety, or copyright law....

Most of the automakers operating in the US filed opposition comments through trade associations, along with a couple of other vehicle manufacturers. They warn that owners with the freedom to inspect and modify code will be capable of violating a wide range of laws and harming themselves and others. They say you shouldn’t be allowed to repair your own car because you might not do it right. They say you shouldn’t be allowed to modify the code in your car because you might defraud a used car purchaser by changing the mileage. They say no one should be allowed to even look at the code without the manufacturer’s permission because letting the public learn how cars work could help malicious hackers, “third-party software developers” (the horror!), and competitors.

John Deere even argued that letting people modify car computer systems will result in them pirating music through the on-board entertainment system, which would be one of the more convoluted ways to copy media (and the exemption process doesn’t authorize copyright infringement, anyway).

The parade of horribles makes it clear that it is an extraordinary stretch to apply the DMCA to the code that runs vehicles. The vast majority of manufacturers' concerns have absolutely nothing to do with copyright law. And, as the automakers repeatedly point out, vehicles are subject to regulation by other government agencies with subject matter expertise, which issue rules about what vehicles are and are not lawful to operate on public roadways.


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Automakers Say You Don’t Really Own Your Car (Original Post) KamaAina Apr 2015 OP
Damn! John Deere is worried about music being pirated?? Major Hogwash Apr 2015 #1
Or get a lawn service which eliviates all problems yeoman6987 Apr 2015 #3
I only go to the Toyota dealer anyway yeoman6987 Apr 2015 #2
I don't necessarily buy that only the dearership can best repair the car LynneSin Apr 2015 #5
True. If it someone trusted as you have. yeoman6987 Apr 2015 #6
I'll drive my 1992 Toyota pickup until it dies. hobbit709 Apr 2015 #4
Same with our 93 Toyotas. dixiegrrrrl Apr 2015 #7
I have a 2000 Avalon AwakeAtLast Apr 2015 #14
I just passed the 71k mile mark on my '93 Toyota 4x4 IDemo Apr 2015 #18
I don't want a car with code. trackfan Apr 2015 #8
I agree. They wiped out neighborhood mechanics with this crap....hackable at that too. TheNutcracker Apr 2015 #9
^^^THIS^^^ Tom Ripley Apr 2015 #10
You want a car with a 4barrel carb? taught_me_patience Apr 2015 #13
3 secondaries? Throd Apr 2015 #20
Ha! I don't even want a starter! Engine crank for me! Adrahil Apr 2015 #17
I can modify the code on my car right now. NutmegYankee Apr 2015 #11
kick Liberal_in_LA Apr 2015 #12
Considering that it's already possible to hack brakes mythology Apr 2015 #15
I thought anyone could alter or modify code if they wanted? Blue_Tires Apr 2015 #16
People do it. I'm not sure about the legality Major Nikon Apr 2015 #19

Major Hogwash

(17,656 posts)
1. Damn! John Deere is worried about music being pirated??
Mon Apr 6, 2015, 04:12 PM
Apr 2015

They should worry more about making better lawn tractors less expensive for the consumer!

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
2. I only go to the Toyota dealer anyway
Mon Apr 6, 2015, 04:37 PM
Apr 2015

They have kept my last Toyota for 14 years and this car is going on 2 years old in August. A Toyotaa Camry bought in August 2013. This car is paid off so I could do whatever I wanted but going to the dealer is the best option for me. Plus I would hate ruining the environment by taking the car to some questionable source who should tinker with it.

LynneSin

(95,337 posts)
5. I don't necessarily buy that only the dearership can best repair the car
Mon Apr 6, 2015, 05:05 PM
Apr 2015

Sure if my car was brand new I'd probably go to back to the dearshipship if the car was still under warrenty.

But as for myself I have an older car (2002 Subaru) and I would rather trust it with my local mechanic than anyone else anywhere. Since I have moved into the neighborhood and started using him he has taken good care of my cars. I probaly could get an oil change cheaper but that would require me driving somewhere else instead of the mechanic right around the corner. The guy has a reputation of knowledge for classic foreign cars, I've seen classic jags, MGs, Mercedes, Alfas and other high end cars in there so if he can fix those cars I think he can handle my Subaru.

But it's the extras that keep me coming back. Like when I left glove box open overnight and killed my battery, he sent his guy to my house for no charge and charged up my battery. He was also the one that checked out my Subaru (which was used when I bought it) to confirm it was a great buy but needed a few things fixed (tires were older) before signing the dotted line.

BTW he can do warrenty work.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
6. True. If it someone trusted as you have.
Mon Apr 6, 2015, 05:08 PM
Apr 2015

Although some go to Jiffy Lube and other places that may not have your best interest in mind.

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
7. Same with our 93 Toyotas.
Mon Apr 6, 2015, 06:27 PM
Apr 2015

And for exactly the reasons in the OP.
Thankfully we have a local mechanic who keeps us in running order.

Our 75 year old neighbor widow bought a 2013 car last summer.
This cold winter she tells me that her car told her to watch for black ice on the road.
" How on earth can a car know that " she wonders in awe.

I find it scary.

IDemo

(16,926 posts)
18. I just passed the 71k mile mark on my '93 Toyota 4x4
Mon Apr 6, 2015, 10:05 PM
Apr 2015

Still running like a top. It will outlast me unless I live to be 250.

 

taught_me_patience

(5,477 posts)
13. You want a car with a 4barrel carb?
Mon Apr 6, 2015, 09:08 PM
Apr 2015

Where three secondaries open up and flood the engine under wot? Crazy man... the best advancements in engine tech have come from computer controlled efi.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
17. Ha! I don't even want a starter! Engine crank for me!
Mon Apr 6, 2015, 10:03 PM
Apr 2015

Some of the Luddites are hilarious. Many of the improvements in fuel efficiency and emissions control are only impossible with electronic control systems.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
15. Considering that it's already possible to hack brakes
Mon Apr 6, 2015, 09:46 PM
Apr 2015

At best they are trying to shut the barn doors after the horse escaped.

Making everything software driven, leaves more and more things vulnerable because pretty much nobody takes software security seriously.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
16. I thought anyone could alter or modify code if they wanted?
Mon Apr 6, 2015, 10:01 PM
Apr 2015

Yeah, the dealer will happily make you watch while he shreds your warranty, but there's technically nothing stopping anyone...

I'm surprised the automakers are going to bat in court for this instead of the major auto software suppliers like Delphi, Bosch, Denso, etc. since they could conceivably make a legal argument about proprietary technology...

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
19. People do it. I'm not sure about the legality
Mon Apr 6, 2015, 10:05 PM
Apr 2015

We were talking about it the other day at work. Several people said they have altered their vehicle to bypass the maximum speed governance built into the vehicle. I think it's pretty fucking stupid as all of them can now exceed the speed rating of their tires and put themselves and everyone else at unnecessary risk, not to mention the stupidity of going that fast in the first place.

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