take a serious look at this, and not force us to deal with it for another 14 months until the nomination.

don't like criticism of Hillary? Too bad. She ain't the candidate yet.

You'll just have to deal.

By the way, care to bash Bernie who recently said that Hillary needs to put specific policy proposals out there?

...and pointing that out isn't Clinton-bashing. If you want to go off on the bashers, this (so far) isn't really the thread.

I criticize her on issues important to me.

and I'll vote for her if she's the nominee.

You are a new poster so you haven't lived though DU presidential years before. Criticism is par for the course.

Btw, I'm female. And I hate to break this to you but many of those who criticize Hillary are to the left of her supporters.

Criticism is not a bad thing.

I take it you love the TPP and TTIP. Don't have any problem with Wall Street and banking deregulation and are gung-ho about Charter Schools- just like Hillary.

And you are pretty clueless about my Senator.

Long, long before YOU appeared here, I've posted consistently about social issues and issues of poverty and inequality.

Long before most people even thought about marriage equality, I was actively working on it here in Vermont.


To paraphrase a line from a popular series of books and TV show: You know nothing, NJNP.

taking the WH

what I consider to be bad, dangerous ideas and trends? I'll vote for her if she's the nominee. No, I won't donate to her. I've donated to O'Malley. I want to see others get in the primary.

I think she's a corporate, centrist hawk who is fine on social issues. I don't think she's cautious and sticks her finger in the wind far too much (for example on Marriage Equality, she was hardly ahead of the curve). I will not vote for her in the primary no, matter what. I will never vote in the primary for someone who voted for the IWR- and who defended that vote for years. That is still important to me. She was told by people like Kennedy and Leahy precisely why it was so what dangerous.

Yes, she's better than a repuke. No, I don't think she's a good choice.

and imply that you are more liberal than I am

Really?

So you think we should nationalize ALL energy, access to the internet, cell service, water, and a few other things?

Now is the time to make our voices heard about what kind of politics we want Hillary Clinton to pursue. Yes there are issues that Clinton is strong on, but there are other issues she has problems with in my opinion.

If Clinton becomes our nominee, which seems likely, than that'll be the time to support her or shut up.

Bryant

It's possible because I don't read a lot about Clinton. But frankly, what I see is a lot of AS OF YET UNADDRESSED bashing of people who oppose Hillary. And now we're on trial for merely calling those same people "cheerleaders"? After being called "freepers"? "Purity trolls"?
"GOP trolls"? All the usual socialist wingnut marginalizations? And, of course, sufferers of "Hillary Derangement Syndrome"?

The bullying honestly seems unidirectional to me. And it's flowing FROM the Hillary direction.

Post about what Clinton is going to do and why that's good, rather than about how she's better than the alternatives.

and you are already SICK of all the Hillary bashing??

You better batten down your hatches and take a very large Valium, 'cause you ain't seen nothing yet. Seriously, you will not last through the primaries without stroking out of you can't handle DU on a good day.

And, just in case you have forgotten -- this is the Democratic primary process -- not the Anointing of Hillary process. Hillary is but one of hopefully many candidates for the Democratic nomination. She is fair game for rigorous debate. Her record is fair game for rigorous debate. If you do not like that or can't handle that then, once again, may I suggest Valium.

But on a more adult line of discussion...

Get a hold of me when a real democratic socialist can win, like Bernie, until then I will vote against the unthinkable

I may not agree with her on everything or even most things but the alternative scares me.

Bernie and Elizabeth Warren won't get the nomination and if somehow they did would lose to fucking Bush or even Ted Cruz... IMHO...

as Lincoln or Eisenhower.

You're better than a republican, too (for all the relevance of either).

Change it a little

"what is ANY con who is elected plans?"



Here is your typical con

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026511567

Hmm,wonder if a Democrat would call mainstream politicians traitors , especially those who have done absolutely nothing wrong

a. what the commerce clause is

b. how it is interpreted differently by left and right

c. how libertarians like Rand Paul and others want to use it against regulation and in favor of corps

d. how different that is compared to let's say Hillary?

and libertarian-ism is at the heart of what you risk if you act in a way that elects any con

HUGELY IMPORTANT that ANYBODY considering NOT voting for the dem do this research

Easy to do, just imagine if there was no EPA

that is just for starters

reads:

What is his position?
OP:I don't know, do your own research.

With convincing arguments like this who wouldn't vote for Clinton?

second- I think there positions are very similar except she is more beholden to Wall Street...

third- I don't find her sincere at all

I would actually like Warren on the economic side (not sure about all of her social positions) but SHE ISN'T RUNNING...so we'll see who all jumps in the ring. Debates are a good thing



And, this is probably closer to the truth than people realize. (ME ME ME ME ME!)

It is an honest thing to say that you may not know of a SINGLE difference but simply dont want another Clinton

I can accept that

BTW, the no dynasty, no Clinton meme is a rightwing meme ONLY designed to stop Hillary, you see righty votes for whoever has the R after their name NO MATTER WHAT

You really want to see this in the history books? (FYI- I'll vote Dem whoever it is, but I can choose who I give money to (announce Martin have first $250 waiting for you!)


BUSH
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Uh, no.

Any other models I can look at?

that says that you get it.

There are two campaigns There is the primary and there is the general election.

I am looking forward to a very spirited Democratic Primary where in the end I will be happy to support the eventual nominee

But I agree, this bashing is getting old and serves no purpose. The Haters bashing Hillary - they should me nothing but negative and hate. I find no use for their information and I will not allow a republican to be elected.

And I am still undecided. Come on Joe - let me know what you are planning to do so I can go with Team Biden or figure out what to do next!

criticism of Hillary with bashing. So what is bashing? And if people run around referring to those that criticize Hillary as Haters they shouldn't be offended by being called mindless sycophants, right?

I've posted plenty of substantive criticism of Hillary, like this post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026510496

Many of Hillary's supporters, while lashing out at those who criticize her, have little substantive to offer.

The bashing haters dog crap is just as craptastic as the mindless sycophants crap.

I don't care about the criticism. To be honest, it all bores me. The stuff you post or anyone else posts, it's probably been on her a few dozen times her or other sites or face books and it's about information that's already widely known about Hillary because in the end Hillary Clinton is the most well document woman in this country. You are welcome to criticize but is there really anything new and revealing about a woman who everyone pretty much knows everything about - the Good, the Bad and the Ugly.

And for that matter when you say what substantive stuff out her supporters offering? I have to ask you this - is there something else about Hillary you are unsure about that could possibly sway your mind? This isn't Barack Obama in 2007 who had 2 years of the Senate and some local Illinois politics under his belt. So I would have to say reading a post about all the good stuff Hillary had done would probably bore me a bit too - I've ready it already and if I need refreshing I'm sure there is a wiki page out there. We know her key messages, her stances and her policies. It's all there, probably not much anything new and/or surprising. I know for me there aren't too many surprises for what I could expect from a Hillary presidency

What I do criticize as the 'haters' and maybe this isn't you - is those who swear up and down that no matter what they will never vote for Hillary even if she wins the primaries (and she hasn't, primaries haven't happened yet).

I just remember how the country was going in 1999 and thought it was going in a great direction and then suddenly we ended up with Bush. Our country was set back a decade and we're still recovery. We cannot afford to have another setback with another GOP president. I understand the thought process for the primaries and I expect an interesting battle for the eventual Democratic Winner. But I have to hope that in the end that we do not set our country back another decade. For the way the GOP is devolving I would be fearful that we could set ourselves back another 80-100 years to something out of the Jim Crow era with a Theocracy rule. So far every GOP candidate and potential candidate gives me the shivers that we could head there.

Now, what reasons do you have to vote for Hillary. Because that whole vote against the Republican thing didn't work out so well in 2014.