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pnwmom

(109,020 posts)
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 06:52 PM Apr 2015

NYTimes Nate Cohn: "No, Hillary Clinton would not benefit from a primary fight."

It's an argument that we often see around here -- that Hillary Clinton's candidacy would be strengthened by a vigorous primary fight.

Nate Cohn doesn't buy it.

And he makes sense. Having to fight off attacks from the left during primary season isn't going to help strengthen HRC for the attacks she'll face from the right, once she's campaigning in the general.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/14/upshot/hillary-clinton-doesnt-need-a-primary-fight.html?mabReward=CTM&action=click&pgtype=Homepage®ion=CColumn&module=Recommendation&src=rechp&WT.nav=RecEngine&abt=0002&abg=0

Mr. MacGillis argues that it would be better for Democrats to reckon with their true feelings about Mrs. Clinton in the primary rather than in the general election. That may be true on matters of style — on the “hyper-cautious answers” or “disingenuous” efforts to align herself with the moods of the moment that Mr. MacGillis cites. But on the more substantive matters, a credible and vigorous primary challenger would be the single likeliest thing to increase Democratic dissatisfaction with her candidacy. It would involve a full year of a liberal Democrat and allies reminding liberal Democrats of all of the reasons they thought Mrs. Clinton was a problematic candidate in the first place.


Mrs. Clinton has a good chance of fending off these charges with a unified Democratic Party. Republicans won’t attack her for being overly hawkish on national security, and Democrats won’t countenance a Republican like Jeb Bush or Scott Walker attacking Mrs. Clinton on her ties to Wall Street. Controversies about the Clintons — like over the Clinton Foundation or her email account — are far less likely to take hold if Democrats defend her.

But without a unified party, she could face recurring and resonant attacks on all of those issues. Though it probably wouldn’t be as bad as what Mr. Romney faced, it could also be worse. After a year of being characterized as a Wall Street hack, or a warmonger with low-grade corruption issues, Mrs. Clinton could face a Ralph Nader-like third-party challenge, which generally becomes likelier after a party has held the White House for consecutive terms.

SNIP

Her total political experience entering the 2016 contest is probably more akin to that of an incumbent president than anything else. Did Presidents Obama or Bush or Clinton struggle in the general elections in 2012, 2004 and 1996 because they weren’t tested in the primaries? It may have hurt them a little bit in the first debate. But incumbent presidents tend to fare pretty well in presidential elections, and I don’t remember too much talk about the trouble they faced getting back into playing shape.

SNIP

73 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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NYTimes Nate Cohn: "No, Hillary Clinton would not benefit from a primary fight." (Original Post) pnwmom Apr 2015 OP
Right. And Chuck Schumer and Howard Dean agree. AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #1
Each of us can only speak for himself or herself. I don't think it will help us win the general pnwmom Apr 2015 #3
Our candidate? Shit, did I miss the primary election? AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #10
Hillary already earned your vote! Cosmic Kitten Apr 2015 #39
Submit citizens! AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #48
Don't let her down, again! Cosmic Kitten Apr 2015 #50
lol - not my vote. 840high Apr 2015 #54
That's what happens when you cavort with elves in the Adirondacks Art_from_Ark Apr 2015 #62
If she's damaged that much in the primaries, someone else would be our candidate arcane1 Apr 2015 #14
They know Elizabeth Warren would make short work of Hillary. AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #17
She's said she's not running and not going to run. pnwmom Apr 2015 #26
You calling Elizabeth Warren a liar? mimi85 Apr 2015 #27
Absolutely not. I take Elizabeth Warren at her word, unlike some others pnwmom Apr 2015 #36
I was for PBO all the way, but never had an O logo. mimi85 Apr 2015 #51
The campaign claimed EW endorsed Hillary AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #30
As H-> continues her drop in the polls, the calls for Elizabeth to run will become deafening and too hard to resist. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2015 #35
Exactly right. AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #37
Great HRC logo, love it. mimi85 Apr 2015 #52
I want a Democratic Prez, and having them bloodied in a futile primary won't help. Hoyt Apr 2015 #33
She was inevitable in 2008 too. Remember? AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #34
Obama had a lot more support than any of the potential candidates other than HRC. Hoyt Apr 2015 #38
Love SNL. Remember these? AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #44
I agree deutsey Apr 2015 #70
Wrong Nate, Cohn, not Silver./NT DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2015 #2
Thanks! pnwmom Apr 2015 #4
I'm not concerned about what benefits Hillary, not in the least. Autumn Apr 2015 #5
If she's the nominee it will matter to all of us. Cutting her off at the knees before she goes pnwmom Apr 2015 #7
She is not yet the nominee. There is no guarantee she will go the distance to the nomination Autumn Apr 2015 #9
Right, she was inevitable in 08 also. It is early, and HRC is already showing her aversion to press peacebird Apr 2015 #29
If she's that easily damaged by a primary season, having already endured one, she shouldn't run. nt winter is coming Apr 2015 #15
But but but...she's the only one who can win Cosmic Kitten Apr 2015 #41
Jesus is your OP Terrible! So here are your fucking rules...... Logical Apr 2015 #49
Exactly, just about to post the same thing. mimi85 Apr 2015 #28
Exactly deutsey Apr 2015 #71
Of course it "wouldn't benefit" Hillary -- Hell Hath No Fury Apr 2015 #6
I have seen that claim MANY times on DU -- that she will be stronger in the long run pnwmom Apr 2015 #8
Exactly loyalsister Apr 2015 #19
Did I say that it would make HER stronger? Hell Hath No Fury Apr 2015 #21
I wasn't talking about you. Many other DUers have claimed that it would strengthen pnwmom Apr 2015 #25
What past primary battles did that? treestar Apr 2015 #69
Way to miss the point whatchamacallit Apr 2015 #23
And more importantly it would benefit the American people tularetom Apr 2015 #58
George H Bush had a primary in 1988 and he had more experience than Hillary Johonny Apr 2015 #11
I agree with this. Which is good, because she's not going to have any serious opposition DanTex Apr 2015 #12
I never thought she would benefit, I thought the COUNTRY would benefit. arcane1 Apr 2015 #13
Well said! polichick Apr 2015 #16
+1 Hell Hath No Fury Apr 2015 #22
By ending up with a Republican President? treestar Apr 2015 #68
A mere primary would result in a republican president? In that case, she's an awful candidate. arcane1 Apr 2015 #73
I just don't think she's a very good campaigner CanadaexPat Apr 2015 #18
So in other words...we should just give her the nomination and give the Republicans a single target? davidn3600 Apr 2015 #20
I haven't seen any politician formally announce yet, have you? pnwmom Apr 2015 #24
Hillary's wellbeing isn't my primary consideration. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2015 #31
what will be will be. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #32
Of course Bush, Obama , Clinton didbt struggle mylye2222 Apr 2015 #40
I think she needs a primary just to retain, or build, some credibility. NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #56
Wait... Wait... So You Are Suggesting That... WillyT Apr 2015 #42
Many people here have told me she'd benefit personally from having an opponent. I don't think so. n/t pnwmom Apr 2015 #45
So we just coronate her? No thanks. Ruby the Liberal Apr 2015 #43
I heard that it was Hillary or nobody. Savannahmann Apr 2015 #46
LOL, Oh My GOD, we can't complain about her and now we can't want another primary candidate! nt Logical Apr 2015 #47
I need a vacation. 840high Apr 2015 #55
NO PRIMARY CANDIDATES! She's the one, Logical. Go to the light, lurver her! NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #57
:-) Logical Apr 2015 #61
No one's saying you shouldn't want another candidate. That's up to you. pnwmom Apr 2015 #60
Geez it is just the opinion of a NYT writer. treestar Apr 2015 #67
It would be nice to know Proud Liberal Dem Apr 2015 #53
Oh, I think she needs a primary like they all do. Cha Apr 2015 #59
Halfbaked online pundits and candidates aren't the same thing. A primary informs the public. freshwest Apr 2015 #63
Who the heck is Nate Cohn? cali Apr 2015 #64
Umm, no. She needs to be challenged on her positions on issues. From the Left. marmar Apr 2015 #65
The public won't benefit if Democratic infighting helps the Rethugs to win the election. pnwmom Apr 2015 #72
It goes for both side, the worse the primary fight treestar Apr 2015 #66
 

AtomicKitten

(46,585 posts)
1. Right. And Chuck Schumer and Howard Dean agree.
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 06:55 PM
Apr 2015

Guess what? It's still BULLSHIT.

We want democracy, not a %$@%# coronation.

This reminds me of the 2000 judicial coup d'etat. The Supremes awarded the election to Junior based on their finding that further vote counting would be detrimental to him. That notion was bullshit then and is bullshit now.


pnwmom

(109,020 posts)
3. Each of us can only speak for himself or herself. I don't think it will help us win the general
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 06:57 PM
Apr 2015

if our candidate is weakened by a pummeling in primary season.

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
39. Hillary already earned your vote!
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 09:02 PM
Apr 2015

Didn't you get the message?
She's gonna be our "champion".

Democrats don't have to
"earn" voters support.
What are we gonna do?
Vote republican
<sarcasm>

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
50. Don't let her down, again!
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 09:51 PM
Apr 2015

We must all vote harder for her this time!
Vote like we really mean it, and it matters!
No half-hearted, lesser of two-evils votes!
We need to vote as hard as we can to win!
SHE is counting on US!

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
62. That's what happens when you cavort with elves in the Adirondacks
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 01:30 AM
Apr 2015

They put something in your drink, you nod off, and when you finally wake up, Bam! You're shocked to learn the primary is already over.

It's happened to me on a couple of occasions

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
14. If she's damaged that much in the primaries, someone else would be our candidate
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 07:14 PM
Apr 2015

Like last time

pnwmom

(109,020 posts)
26. She's said she's not running and not going to run.
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 07:50 PM
Apr 2015

And she's written a letter urging HRC to run.

But go ahead, keep thinking she's a liar.

pnwmom

(109,020 posts)
36. Absolutely not. I take Elizabeth Warren at her word, unlike some others
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 08:42 PM
Apr 2015

who are so sure she doesn't mean what she so clearly says.

Do you see HRC's avatar on my post? I haven't committed to anyone yet -- except for the Democratic nominee, whoever that is.

But so far I haven't seen anyone formally commit to the process except for HRC.

 

AtomicKitten

(46,585 posts)
30. The campaign claimed EW endorsed Hillary
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 07:59 PM
Apr 2015

with that sleight of hand re: the letter. EW straightened that fib out; you will note the Clinton campaign dropped that claim.

And Elizabeth is not running ... until she does. Plenty of pols have changed (or made up) their minds. It's a distinct possibility.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,123 posts)
35. As H-> continues her drop in the polls, the calls for Elizabeth to run will become deafening and too hard to resist.
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 08:39 PM
Apr 2015

mimi85

(1,805 posts)
52. Great HRC logo, love it.
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 10:06 PM
Apr 2015

And what polls? Not happy or unhappy about it, just curious - which gets me in trouble frequently. Sounds like EW is your choice. One can wish.

 

AtomicKitten

(46,585 posts)
34. She was inevitable in 2008 too. Remember?
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 08:39 PM
Apr 2015

Suggesting she have no opposition and just sashay to the nomination is undemocratic in the most repugnant way. Here's what Father Pfleger had to say in 2008 about that sense of entitlement.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
38. Obama had a lot more support than any of the potential candidates other than HRC.
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 08:57 PM
Apr 2015

SNL had a great joke with a lot of truth last week.

Something to the effect HRC led all possible primary candidates with 60+% of vote.. The next best was at 3%, and was named MARGIN OF ERROR.

deutsey

(20,166 posts)
70. I agree
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 08:22 AM
Apr 2015

Is that the state of our alleged "democratic process"?

We don't dare raise issues or put forth candidates that might hurt a presumptive candidate?

Autumn

(45,120 posts)
5. I'm not concerned about what benefits Hillary, not in the least.
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 06:58 PM
Apr 2015

The American people may be the ones to benefit if a Democrat ran who is interested in economic equality.

pnwmom

(109,020 posts)
7. If she's the nominee it will matter to all of us. Cutting her off at the knees before she goes
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 07:00 PM
Apr 2015

in the general won't do us any good.

Autumn

(45,120 posts)
9. She is not yet the nominee. There is no guarantee she will go the distance to the nomination
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 07:02 PM
Apr 2015

So this author of the piece is an idiot

peacebird

(14,195 posts)
29. Right, she was inevitable in 08 also. It is early, and HRC is already showing her aversion to press
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 07:56 PM
Apr 2015

She is doing small events with precleared syncophants. She has not put out her positions, and frankly her attempts to sound populist ring as false as her call to have a constitutional amendment to stop the money machine in elections - knowing a constitutional amendment will take close to a decade and she won't have any more elections by the time it passes, and she knows it has a snowballs chance in hell OF passing. But she can claim she is doing something.

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
41. But but but...she's the only one who can win
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 09:08 PM
Apr 2015

The worst part is...
she would be "damaged"
by a debate!?!

Is she really that out of step
with Democratic values?

Apparently she has nothing
to inspire or ignite the Party?
So it's all about damage control.

pathetic really

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
49. Jesus is your OP Terrible! So here are your fucking rules......
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 09:44 PM
Apr 2015

1. Don't complain about Hillary
2. The DU needs to 100% support Hillary
3. Stop wishing for another Democrat to run

I cannot imagine a right wing GOP supporter being any more controlling that you are.

Wow, talk about getting sick of Hillary! You are making it easy.

 

Hell Hath No Fury

(16,327 posts)
6. Of course it "wouldn't benefit" Hillary --
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 07:00 PM
Apr 2015

to have competition in her quest, but it WOULD benefit the Democratic Party.

pnwmom

(109,020 posts)
8. I have seen that claim MANY times on DU -- that she will be stronger in the long run
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 07:01 PM
Apr 2015

if she faces opposition during the primary.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
19. Exactly
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 07:26 PM
Apr 2015

It lengthens the campaign exposure in ways that can be very productive. The assumption that it will be so contentious it damages the nominee for the general is not necessarily true. Answering uncomfortable questions during primary season leaves room to focus on what matters during the general.

 

Hell Hath No Fury

(16,327 posts)
21. Did I say that it would make HER stronger?
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 07:28 PM
Apr 2015

No, I didn't. I said it would make the PARTY stronger. There is a difference.

pnwmom

(109,020 posts)
25. I wasn't talking about you. Many other DUers have claimed that it would strengthen
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 07:48 PM
Apr 2015

HRC for the general.

whatchamacallit

(15,558 posts)
23. Way to miss the point
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 07:36 PM
Apr 2015

In all the pompom waving some of us have forgotten it's NOT about Hillary, it's about US electing the best president we can. True, a primary won't make her run easier, but that's fucking democracy. Between the taint of money and the singleminded drive to win, it's getting pretty totalitarian up in here.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
58. And more importantly it would benefit the American people
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 11:47 PM
Apr 2015

by forcing a platform that is truly representative of the concerns and aspirations of the 99%.

Hillary Clinton is auditioning to be our employee, it isn't up to us to make it easy for her. It's up to her to prove to us that she is worthy of our trust.

If she's too much of a wimp to tell us how she proposes to do the things we expect her to do, she's too much of a wimp to actually do them.

Johonny

(20,918 posts)
11. George H Bush had a primary in 1988 and he had more experience than Hillary
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 07:05 PM
Apr 2015

Hell Bradley ran against Gore. It wasn't much of a fight and probably the lack of interest resulted in the worst Democratic VP nomination of our lifetime. So why does Hillary get a free pass and, Hell, why wouldn't the democrats use the free publicity to get name recognition to younger candidates for VP and future elections? The primary used to be a place to show case talent.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
12. I agree with this. Which is good, because she's not going to have any serious opposition
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 07:09 PM
Apr 2015

in the primary. It's probably good to at least have some nominal opposition, if only for PR reasons.

 

Hell Hath No Fury

(16,327 posts)
22. +1
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 07:30 PM
Apr 2015

Yup, unless there is a challenge there will be only one voice heard on a national level. NEVER a good idea, especially if there is any intention of moving a Party/country in a different direction.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
73. A mere primary would result in a republican president? In that case, she's an awful candidate.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 01:47 PM
Apr 2015
 

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)
20. So in other words...we should just give her the nomination and give the Republicans a single target?
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 07:27 PM
Apr 2015

pnwmom

(109,020 posts)
24. I haven't seen any politician formally announce yet, have you?
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 07:47 PM
Apr 2015

They're the ones deciding to "give" her the nomination, if that's what happens. And I won't have a problem with that.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
31. Hillary's wellbeing isn't my primary consideration.
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 08:03 PM
Apr 2015

I want to win the GE with the most populist/progressive candidate we can find.

 

mylye2222

(2,992 posts)
40. Of course Bush, Obama , Clinton didbt struggle
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 09:08 PM
Apr 2015

In 2014, 2004, and 1996 since they were already sitting presudents seeking a second term...

Well completly disagree with this columnist. A primary challenge, and I mean a real one, will benefit BOTH HRC and her challengers. Everyone will present his/her vision and there will be an healthy exchange .

 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
56. I think she needs a primary just to retain, or build, some credibility.
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 11:42 PM
Apr 2015

As it is, she is totally undefined.

Her video articulated nothing, just that she wants to be our champion.

And I think she won't offer many specific actions or solid positions unless she's challenged to in honest debates.

 

WillyT

(72,631 posts)
42. Wait... Wait... So You Are Suggesting That...
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 09:15 PM
Apr 2015

Somebody running against Hillary, will make Hillary's run harder ???

Wouldn't THAT be the point ???

It called...an opponent.




pnwmom

(109,020 posts)
45. Many people here have told me she'd benefit personally from having an opponent. I don't think so. n/t
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 09:35 PM
Apr 2015
 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
47. LOL, Oh My GOD, we can't complain about her and now we can't want another primary candidate! nt
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 09:42 PM
Apr 2015














 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
57. NO PRIMARY CANDIDATES! She's the one, Logical. Go to the light, lurver her!
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 11:43 PM
Apr 2015

Don't resist.

Resistance is FUTILE!

pnwmom

(109,020 posts)
60. No one's saying you shouldn't want another candidate. That's up to you.
Thu Apr 16, 2015, 12:31 AM
Apr 2015

Just don't be one of those who pretend Hillary would be better off with a challenger.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
67. Geez it is just the opinion of a NYT writer.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 07:30 AM
Apr 2015

Don't worry, you can and will to continue to complain. And be victimized by all those supporters pushing back.

Proud Liberal Dem

(24,450 posts)
53. It would be nice to know
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 10:13 PM
Apr 2015

Who will be running against her in the primary? He or she has not declared so what will happen if nobody else declares?v And I don't believe in having a primary for primary sake. I want candidates whom are in it to win it, not somebody trying to "make a point".

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
63. Halfbaked online pundits and candidates aren't the same thing. A primary informs the public.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 07:05 AM
Apr 2015

It has nothing to do with attacks from the right, except there is a lot of this going on right now:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/110215862

For Democrats to resist it, they will have to truly know the platform. That is what is going to beat the right. A debate hashing it out in a respectful manner will be a plus.

What we see online is childish garbage being strewn about and any serious Democratic candidate will not indulge in demagoguery or slander. It's what goes on in online forums since they are anonymous.

Our candidates have a reputation and careers to be maintain and won't do it.
So I want a primary. It will put people's minds at rest and allow an informed decision.


marmar

(77,102 posts)
65. Umm, no. She needs to be challenged on her positions on issues. From the Left.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 07:09 AM
Apr 2015

And is the election about "benefiting Hillary" or benefiting the public? The public always benefits when there's a healthy exchange of ideas, not a lockstep march toward coronation.


pnwmom

(109,020 posts)
72. The public won't benefit if Democratic infighting helps the Rethugs to win the election.
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 01:23 PM
Apr 2015

And being challenged from the left won't help HRC fight off attacks from the right.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
66. It goes for both side, the worse the primary fight
Fri Apr 17, 2015, 07:29 AM
Apr 2015

the more ammunition the other party gets. Voodoo economics for instance. That was said during the primary.

Many of the attacks on Obama by McCain's supporters were things Hillary had brought up first.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»NYTimes Nate Cohn: "...