Also gets in trouble. It does not support an argument of poverty unless it becomes a generational pattern. Education is a beginning of a path out of poverty.

Daughter in class mostly so the daughter can get an education and better herself since the post said the mother did not have a job. The daughter in classes would not have resulted in fines. It is a no brainer.

No, this shold have been known before this point. After the first fine the parent should be taking action. What kind of job can this daughter ever get except the very lowest, it makes a no win situation for the daughter, others care more than the daughter than the daughter cares about herself.

Assuming that high schools are now better than the violent, hot, and boring institutions I attended in the '80s, I fail to see how attending one would "better" anyone, or why she needs "bettering." Maybe she's like I was - a straight A student taking all AP classes - who just didn't feel the need to go every day. Maybe she's working and too tired to go every day. Maybe she's tired of the violence in her school. Maybe instead of jailing her, an alternative school or a GED program should be considered. Jailing her and fining her family is a stupid plan that won't do anything except make her family poorer and perhaps less enthusiastic about education.

education? There are success stories coming out of our school, we can promote the success stories or promote the students who skip classes. I choose to promote the success stories. Also I will add it is a stupid plan to have students skip school and skipping school will make her and her family poorer.

your opinion is not worth hearing.

Be thankful to a teacher if you can read. The debtors prison in this situation is probably going to lead to future prisons.

In some instances, skipping school is a poor kid's first enounter with our injustice system. Do wealthy kids go to jail because mom and dad can't afford to pay the fines?

I have to say, though, that this is stupidity at its finest, since it's so easy to avoid those fines. But should "stupid" be a crime?

would be fined for skipping school.

what % of the family income?

at the golf club.

I think you have to consider the reason's why someone might skip school before calling them stupid.

We all remember the peer pressure of adolescence. Well, poor kids might not even have presentable clothes to wear and we know other teens can be very cruel with their taunts if you don't fit in.

There's also a possibility of hunger. Poor kids might not even have breakfast or lunch money and you sure can't learn if you're hungry and thus, you fall behind with grades.

You can't study well either with hunger pangs at home so a kid might avoid school because her/his grades are slipping.

And then there's the possibility of abuse and/or domestic violence at home.

You can't just call these kids "stupidity at its finest". What's stupid is to criminalize skipping school. Where is a poor kid going to get $2700?

He/she now gets even further behind until the fine is paid, further guaranteeing that this student will not have the motivation to go to school.

This reminds me of the situation in Ferguson where the town officials were bleeding the public of with every fine they could think of to fund their own jobs.

What the hell are poor kids doing being fined that kind of money for skipping school, or any kind of money?

Figure out a way to help and motivate these poor kids to go to school instead of criminalizing them.

There are ministries in Texas which helps those in need, one can acquire vouchers for clothes. The clothes may not be designer clothes but are functional. I did not grow up rich for sure and by no means rich now, I went to school because I had parents who encouraged education and made going to school very important. Schools are mainly supported by taxes from property owners, I expect families to take advantage of their children getting an education to better the families in the future.

often a different example that takes the lead over talk. I have lived and worked in areas where there truly were NO jobs. The parents were unemployed and could do nothing about it. In these areas many of the children see only hopelessness. They do not see a reason to go to school. And to be truthful in their area there is not much that is going to change because of a high school education. With many of these kids it is not wanting to get ahead - it is believing that you cannot get ahead.

In the one area that I saw this take a U-turn they had a business that came to the area and gave mom and dad a job. The kids are now graduating from school and going on to college. Parental support is important but it also takes hope.

In order to make a judgment about this girl I would need to know more about her neighborhood. The article says it is a poor area. Are there success stories that can act as a role model?

she should have in order to function in the world. If the fines was up to $2700 there would have been some appearances in court, they are questioned, perhaps it fell on deaf ears and apparently the first time or so appearing in court did not correct the situation. Where do you think this child is going to be able to go, what kind of a job will she ever be able to have without basic education. It is not to degrade the child but to educate the child.

If there had never been a success story coming out of poverty I could buy the story, there are success stories. Skipping school will not result in a success story.

get her one of those low paying jobs. And she knows it already. Her parents should have done something but they did not. Parents are not always there when they are needed. Where is she going? Until I know the full story I do not know. In some of the areas I worked in she would have ended up as a prostitute if nothing else came along. Or more likely on welfare. All of these examples were just exactly what she would have grown up seeing. Generational hopelessness.

The success stories coming out of poverty do not necessarily live in her neighborhood. And she does not see herself as one of them. She has learned helplessness.

As to excuses. In the 1970s my son-in-law was the first one in the whole reservation ever to graduate from high school. I know of one person who actually had a real job back then. And he was one of the best cons I have ever met. No one respected him and he did not last long. Oh yes there were CETA jobs which were part time dead end jobs. So many months work and then nothing. Many of these jobs were works programs to create jobs sponsored by the government. The ones for the kids were a joke. No real work - just show up and you get paid. Smoke a joint as you wait for time to leave. Actually some of the adult jobs were no different.

Years later in the Bill Clinton administration the rez was given the right to open a casino. Jobs. Jobs that allowed the parent to go to work every day and to have enough money to support his/her family. A job to allow him/her to become a role model. A reason to support the education of the children. Hope. And that is exactly what is happening.

There are still kids skipping school today but not as many. There are still parents who are not doing a good job. But not as many. In fact our area is just as successful as the white area today. But no one put the kids in jail - they gave them hope.

This is only going to get worse. There is not any excuse for skipping classes. There is not success in skipping classes. This is not the first kid in a poor neighborhood nor will it be the last one, defying the school rules is not an education, if there was not any schools in the neighborhood or nearby area would be a problem. It does not help the situation to make more excuses for this girl not going to classes.

you saying the parents should have done something - I do not disagree. But I do not hear you saying how to get this child to attend school when she does not want to. When she is in jail she is not in school either. Now if they put mom in jail that might help but I doubt it.

So you tell me how you are going to get her there?

I will not accept the excuses.

Who says I do. I merely try to understand why it happens so that I can figure out how to stop her. So once again - how would you prevent this?

While taking an advanced study in the "I've-Got-Mine-Jack" school of Libertarian compassion. Bravo.

However, having lost a job through no fault of my own, and then having lost a house because I'd lost a job through no fault of my own, and then having to live in public housing because I'd lost my house because I'd lost my job through no fault of my own, and because the job market had dropped into the toilet through no fault of my own.

I can tell you that, all things being equal, and despite your bootstrap fantasies, reality will trump personal responsibility 100% of the time.


Since you're the one who touted your ennobling experience in the school of hard knocks, it's surprising that you could be so lacking in empathy and compassion while simultaneously being blind to how reality works.


Upthread you said that you were done, that you were out. I'd say that you summed it up nicely.

Taxes to support schools and those in which skip classes. It becomes lack of empathy and compassion for students to show their appreciation for a gift given to them.

Every word you post reveals that you lack real empathy or any understanding of reality, despite your claims re: your alma mater.

Girl to failure, make sure she remains in poverty, stop her from being a success. Yes the more you write about not taking action to get her in classes shows your compassion.

Everyone in this thread sees you for what you are.

Now that would be a waste of life. Her mother could home school her, this I allowed in Texas.

And I'm sure that you've convinced yourself that your legally-obligated "empathy" is the same thing as real empathy.

More's the pity.

Ann Richards would put this closet republican in its place.

Judge on truancy charges. She would also get you straight about calling a Democrat a Republican, she spoke straightforward.

A war on the poor (that is how I sum up the impression you leave me with)

Still not taking the time to visit a poor neighborhood like where I live in order to learn about those you hold such disdain for as I once suggested I'd wager.

Too bad, a little understanding of those you consistently speak against might have informed your opinions and brought them in line with reality.

are almost always on free breakfast and free school lunch so they should go to school to eat. And the way schools are set up now, all kids punch in their ID number in the cafeteria (parents write a check to deposit in kids' account), so no one knows who is on free lunch.

We were rather poor growing up (neither of my parents finished high school), but there was no way in hell they were going to let up skip school for days on end. These kids aren't getting fined for missing a couple of days of school. I know there are real issues - like homelessness - that affects school attendance, but too often the problem is a lack of making education a priority.

Now, in my kids' school we have rather wealthy children who miss weeks and months of school - mostly to go home to visit India and other countries of their parents' origin. The parents simply unenroll the kids to avoid dealing with truancy issues.

Primary Education is the path of blind Indoctrination. (just look at the way we have been voting for the last 40 years!) The 2 thing our Education systems fails to teach is, 1)critical thinking. and, 2)reasoned response.

Check out www.simons-rock.edu. And this year, they are opening up an alternative to 9th and 10th grades with their Academy.

An amazing place.

Success? Interesting view in spite of the fact I see many successful people who went through the eduction system.

Last edited Thu Apr 23, 2015, 05:44 PM - Edit history (1)

with no critical thinking skills whatsoever. Kissing up and kicking down has been the principal method to achieve success in the corporate world and its analogs for decades now. Critical thinking and asking serious questions mark one as a "boat-rocker" and "not a team player." IOW, it is a death sentence.

And I can tell you that schools can be a hostile place for poor kids...they are subjected to ridicule for not having nice close or things about where they live and their parents.

Hungry kids do not fare well in school.

passing the fine amount? With a fine this large, why did her mother not ask why are was she skipping?

There were days we would not have eaten without me doing so.
When I had to leave home at 16 and take care of myself, I already had two years training in the trades working under the table for the fly by nights. I officially quit at 16 then got a job on the books for a local house painter/carpenter and was able to feed myself.

Sadly, there is not much work around these days and I would not be able to repeat this as a teen in the present economy.

The point is, there are reasons poor kids skip that are far more numerous than the reasons the rich kids do. I would not judge such a kid based solely on attendance but would try to understand what was happening in order to try to help.

And they are not just for fun...I have had similar experience.
I never finished school either for the same reason, and was homeless on the street by 16 and finally found a job in a rest home that gave me food and shelter and 100 bucks a month...and I was glad to have it.

The answer to everything seems to be punishment in this world...and there are lots of ways to punish kids now and few ways to actually help them.

You seem to be judging from a class of people that do not face the damage poverty does to children

one of the first steps. It is oblivious some people thinks it is just fine not to do steps in order to get out of poverty. Keep whatever thoughts, either one wants to work hard and play by the rules or they just don't care and it may be okay for them to stay in poverty.

I have fought poverty in my life, I got and education and I work to stay of dire poverty. I help myself.

but that Is not to say anyone else may have the same opportunities or abilities as yourself.....open up your mind and educate yourself

School of hard knocks, the girl and others in her situation needs education. I do not accept excuses for students skipping classes. I do say it is okay for Suzy or Johnny to fail to attend classes and when they end up going through a revolving door of the system it only teaches it is okay not to work.

There have been cases of low-income children cited for missing school after their buses failed to stop for them. Low-income children have been accosted by police while waiting for their buses.

If a parent has to work two jobs and is unable to pick up a child during an unscheduled early dismissal due to weather or illness, the parent can be reported to CYS, with the children thereafter taken from the parent and the parent potentially fined and jailed when he or she fails to show up for court because of work.

If you think that this doesn't happen, then you're part of the problem. It is exactly the same machinery that funnels poor children from their under-funded schools straight into the prison system.


Your smug dismissal of this toxic and widespread problem--as if it's simply a matter of a failure to bootstrap oneself into success--is frankly disgusting and out of place on a progressive website.

Which is logic, if you like. I think if I had been incurring fines I would have showed up instead. But simply being present in body would not have ensured any benefit was drawn from the experience. I've always been a bit baffled by truancy laws, since I tend to doubt forcing someone to show up for class is going to have a benefit. "Well, at least they are exposed to education" seems (and seemed) pretty lame to me, but hey, I dropped out of school after 11th grade, so what do I know?

Throwing children in prison for the "crime" of truancy and fining their parents seems to me to be a bit of overkill. I am reminded of sumptuary laws, the only basis of which is to keep people in their place and mulct them relentlessly to keep their heads down. At the most generous, I'd have to say such truancy laws are good intentions gone horribly and wilfully wrong. At the most cynical, I'd say they do exactly what they are really intended to do.

-- Mal

uses a word like "mulct"?

Which wasn't even in my desk dictionary. "to punish by fine or forfeiture".

Mulct?

There's actually quite a bit of that going around -- two of my Internet friends have done the same thing.

-- Mal

First is, very cynically, do the good people of Jamestown, Tennessee typically elect Republicans or Democrats? Second, why the hell are there fines for truancy?

we're spending too much on foreign wars to finance our 'justice' system w/o all these hidden taxes.

I was in municipal court in Linden, N.J. to handle my employer's truck traffic tickets. In the room was a minority woman, approximately aged 30. She was there to be sentenced to a month in slammer because her teenage daughter was constantly truant.

Daughter was defiant and glad for the change to get back at her mother for whatever reason.

I have said things like this in the past on DU. And I believe this to be metaphorically true. We need the mindset of insurrection to change what has been inflicted on us for 40+ years.
And we need to do it peacefully for several reasons.

1. Mankind claims to be civilized, lets try to prove we are.
2. Victory parties are kind of spoiled by the distant sound of ravens feasting on the dead.
3. The thought of the Oligarchs being gone, even through violence, is appealing. The though of them living a long life looking at their efforts undone and their intended victims thriving is far more satisfying.

It is hard for me to imagine anything more satisfying than the thud of a guillotine separating a tenth-percenter from their head and the screams and lamentations of their family as their ill-gotten gains are redistributed to the needy.

**** ****** found to be a traitor, fined the value of all his worldly possession, and sentenced to reservation life on the Military reservation of Leavenworth Kansas. Unable to leave the base. Stripped of his vehicle. Surrounded on all sides by people who know he held and holds their lives as nothing more than toys, chips used to line the pockets of ungrateful corporate despots.
His every move, every phone call, internet traffic, and visitor screened for intelligence and security.
Every Halloween his house looks snot covered by all the thrown eggs, every spring his trees are full of toilet paper.

Him growing older and older watching thousands of solders not go off to war for the next thirty years.

I was just talking about this travesty with my housemate last night. I had taken a look at what medi-Cal was being billed for all my medications, and it came to more than I would earn in a month for most of the jobs I was applying for.

Obviously America "has the money" to feed, shelter, and provide significant life-repairing services to the poor: but we CHOSE to give it to greedy Big Pharma instead.

People on welfare get even less than those $500/month seniors and get sporadic payments as well as an avalanche of red tape and the constant scrutiny of the State"s investigators. If you hd a choice between begging, prostitution, and selling pills to make rent and basic expenses, what would you do? If your pills were worth enough you might be able to escape the claws of social services...

On the other hand the whole reason many people have those pills are because of the stresses inflicted by the godawful system itself. Reform the system so its working from The POV of the clients, and they will be in better condition...i.e., less pills to sell. But if those Medi-Cal/caid savings are applied to appropriate services, this should be a wash. Re: people who aren't sick and tired all the time are a lot more employable.

After this discussion, my housemate ad I speculatedcon the street value of our pills and realized that Republicans would be cutting off "medicine fraud" next. People on welfare already can't get around because Republicans had to stop people from "selling their bus tickets". And "selling food stamps" has been an ongoing accusation. "Medication fraud" is coming as the next "reason" for takeaways of needed mediction. Mark my words.