As my Scottish grandfather, who lived in suburban Baltimore for many years, would say, "I hae me doots". It is far more likely that the Shaheeds were just in the wrong place at the wrong time, like many Korean merchants were in south-central L.A.

but it was pretty widely known during the LA riots in 1992 that Korean businesses were targeted...it wasn't a case of wrong place, wrong time.

were also targeted.

I have a few friends who's family lost everything during the LA riots. They never recovered.

Hardly.

Black business burned = Not targeted, but burned anyway? ... Targeted, too?

Either way, it kind of weakens the racial argument, no?

Targeting a business to burn down based on the race or ethnicity of the owner/operator is even worse, because it's based on bigotry.

I have no idea whether such targeting occurred in Baltimore - I haven't heard that it did. But it certainly happened during the LA riots in 1992, and yes, it was widely known at the time.

"It happened because 'it was widely known'" thing?

Okay.

If you don't believe it happened, and can't take the time to learn about it for yourself, that's your problem, not mine.

but for the record, citing to "widely know" is pretty much the opposite of "educating."

I was living just a few miles west. the Koreans that came in to the neighborhoods and opened up liquor stores were frowned upon. There's references to such in hip hop as well.

A sentiment expressed in a 1991 Ice Cube song:

So pay respect to the black fist
Or we'll burn your store, right down to a crisp
And then we'll see ya
'Cause you can't turn the ghetto, into Black Korea


Ice Cube is from Los Angeles, by the way.

whose words are typically ignored, says it ... it happened?

Okay.

In the South-Central area, where Korean shops have become the object of resentment even as they provide what is often the only retail service to residents, some shopkeepers climbed ladders to remove the Korean lettering from their signboards. At the Korean consulate, where National Guardsmen stood watch, an identifying plaque had been covered up by tape.

Yumi Park, the former director of the Korean American Grocers Association, said about 600 Korean-owned retail outlets had been damaged in the South-Central area and about 200 in Koreatown.

Lawrence Aubry, a member of the Los Angeles County Human Relations Commission, said Korean merchants had become a lightning rod for the discontent of some black residents. Many blacks in Los Angeles have remained poor as, one after another, immigrant groups have arrived and climbed past them to prosperity.

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/05/03/us/riot-los-angles-pocket-tension-target-rioters-koreatown-bitter-armed-determined.html


You seem to think people are making this up.

I think that if the shops were targeted, it was not because of the ethnicity of the shop owner; but, rather, how the shop owner treated members of the community.

But what would I know? I have only been Black and have lived (and been active) in Black neighborhoods the majority of my life.

Apparently everyone who gets their stuff looted or burned in a riot has it coming.

Stay classy.

in 1994, I bought a house in a really impoverished community ... my house was surrounded on 3 sides by public housing. The entire block had 6 habitable houses on it.

At the corner of the street was a "grocery store"/gas station, that sold very little gas (as they charged 40 cents a gallon more than most gas stations) and was stocked with over-priced goods, and just right priced cigarettes, wine and malt liquor.

Being a smoker, I would stop in there about 2 or 3 times a week. On one occasion, I happened into the store. I noticed there was young woman (probably 15 or 16 years old) holding some "Pampers". She was clearly upset.

I came to learn that she was less than a dollar short on the price of the over-priced diapers ... she had been pleading with the shop owner to give her credit for the difference, until that coming Friday ... when her mother got a check.

I came in just in time to hear the shop owner telling her that she could have the diapers for what she had, if she gave him a BJ.

Of course I was aghast ... I reached into my pocket and gave her the money for the diapers.

The shop owner got mad at me for giving her the money. He refused to accept the money from the young woman ... AND he refused to sell me the cigarettes; telling me that I should just mind my own business.

Tell me you would shed a tear for that shop keeper if his shop burned down.

One day, I

I think you hit the post button before you finished your reply. Please finish what you were planning to say.

my post preceded that.

I bet most people who run small stores in the ghetto are just like that. They should all have their stores burned down.

Or, you know, people could stop patronizing that business.

I vacillate on that ... On the one hand, the store does provide stuff the community needs and wants; but, at what cost?

If someone burned it down, though, I would want the arsonist prosecuted.

Your story really has nothing to do with the family in the OP or the Korean families in L.A. The store owner that you described was a reprehensible cockroach, but it doesn't cast guilt on these victims.

shop owners get targeted for burning ... and it has NOTHING to do with their ethnicity; but rather, everything to do with how they treat the community wherein they are located.

Do I know this particular shop owner mistreated the community? No. I don't. But I know that store owners that treat the community well, are not burned by members of the community.

But again ... what do I know? I've only lived it.

You are using the example of one store owner in your past to justify the crime described in the OP.

that's why I said;

Well, not unless there's a riot going on.

Which is what happens when crowds becomes disorderly, and riot

but some wish to make this about race. I wonder why? Maybe it's the "reverse discrimination" thing.

that they told the crowd to go after non-black-owned businesses.

but more, the media sources reporting said self-serving "interviews"?

Okay.

Maybe you should?


You could also accept the words of the Angelenos who lived it, and the rioters who perpetrated it, but whatever.

You've got an axe-- grind it.

I have not claimed authority status.

I could accept "the words of the Angelenos who lived it" ... but Los Angeles is a big place with some "experiencing" it and others "experiencing" it via the media. Right? But whatever.

and asking (quite reasonably, IMO), if there is any actual evidence that Asian-owned businesses were "targeted" or damaged at a greater rate than black-owned businesses. If anybody has any numbers that speak to that, it would be a good response to 1SBM's question.

I thought it would have been clear from this post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6607332

My first post in this thread.

There had been racial tensions between the African Americans and Korean American communities in that area long before the Rodney King incident. Area residents had complained for years about the Korean shopkeepers treating them all like criminals, and many were still furious about a Korean shopkeeper who had shot and killed a 15 year old African American girl she accused of shoplifting. Even though witnesses and video recordings clearly showed that there was no danger and that the shopkeeper had essentially executed her with a shot to the back of the head, and even though the police showed that she had the money to pay for the item IN HER HAND and was going to pay for it, the shopkeeper was still only given probation and a $500 fine. A $500 fine for cold-blooded murder.

That conviction came down only a few months before the Rodney King verdict. That anger, combined with years of (real or perceived) abuse at the hands of the Korean merchant community, led a lot of the rioters to target Koreatown.

I remember all of that, living not too far away. It was insane.

Sure people back then were mad at the white cops but they took the opportunity to get even with Koreans who they viewed as just as racist towards blacks when they went into their stores and got profiled and followed around like they were going to steal something just because they were black. It's not right but it is understandable considering they knew they were in black neighborhoods but disliked black people. I'm not saying these Pakistanis did the same thing but if they did its understandable.

I don't see evidence the shop owners were targeted because they're Pakistani.

Was CVS targeted because most of the shareholders are white?

The parallels to some of the stuff I have seen posted here lately are jawdropping.

Is it good?

Surprisingly good for American tv.

Felicity Huffman deserves an Emmy for portraying the hate that exists in this country by those who don't even realize they are racist.

Jeb Bush Caremark and see what you find my friend!!!

While it is old news, it is NEWS nonetheless and makes any Democrat with a brain wish to BOYCOTT CVS Caremark if at all possible!!!

That CVS was the only place they could get their prescriptions. The city had begged CVS to put a store in that neighborhood. I'm sure you will be right there to help...

And I doubt that CVS will be in any hurry to rebuild there.

What makes you think I am "elderly"? I am far worse than being elderly believe me.

I am totally 100% disabled and forced to used this Nazi fascist pharmacy.

I hate the fuckers ok? They SUCK and they are ripping me off!!!!

I said nothing about your age or condition. Maybe some rioters will come around and burn your CVS down. That way you will not be forced to use a "nazi fascist" pharmacy that "sucks" and is "ripping you off".

Last edited Sun May 3, 2015, 02:59 AM - Edit history (2)

and no, I am not the only one being ripped off by them and being told what I can and cannot have. I frankly hope I see the day when some rich person out there sues the hell out of them writing for telling a physician what drugs they can and cannot RX. FUCK THEM.

Since when has this fascist pharmacy gotten so damn powerful?

Answer: The day the BFFE became involved in their "business practices".

On edit: If you think the elderly have it bad, you should see what people in my boat go through. It is much worse as they discriminate and give the disabled the lowest level crud they can push off and the cheapest crummiest generic drugs that can be found from third world countries and no, I am not kidding about that! Shame on them!! They get away with it because ... they can.

They are like a cancer in this land, spreading out of control and acting as if they are GOD when in fact they are a disastrous company that deserves to go belly up ASAP! I cannot tell you how many mom and pop pharmacies have had to hang the out-of-business signs on their door thanks to the likes of CVS/Caremark! Bad for jobs and bad for business!! The last time I was in there they gave me the wrong RX and still attempted to collect money from me!

between Arab/Chaldean owned businesses located in mostly-black neighborhoods.

Maybe the owners weren't specifically targeted for being Pakistani; they could've been targeted for not being black in a black area.

Keep trying.

to look up Arab/Black economic relationships in black neighborhoods. Or maybe you did and it ruined your narrative so your pretending it doesn't matter. Whatever.

Pakistanis are not "Arabs."

FFS.

and Muslim

Which is still racist.

and I am SICK of them



but I better not EVER respond directly to any of them, i will be silenced if I do

this thread is sickening...disgusting

your understanding that people may care about the aging population? Or that people can thin critically about the effects of losing resources in a community?? Have fun wallowing in anger.

who have to live with the consequences of what the criminals did.

Why don't you care about the 99.9% of people in that neighborhood who protested peacefully or who--gasp! horror!--had other things to do like work and take care of their families?

to Chinese and Arab businesses.

The collective DU mindset appears to be "too bad, so sad" - these folks just don't realize they should be honored their business was destroyed to send a "message" to the world.

Thanks for posting though.

Sad. Disgusting.

in the view of many DU members. I've learned that the hard way.

The poor souls had no choice but to loot and burn. How dare Obama call them thugs. They are just misunderstood.




The only thing these people did was undermine those who were legitimately protesting against police abuse without resorting to violence.

How do you manage to find so many new bankies???

I get tired of the constant fighting around here. I poke my head a little and when I get sick of getting smacked around, I go away for a while.

It's always nice to see you, my friend.

Hugs........

Who are we, after all, to criticize how people express their rage against the societal machine? An ATM lifter, or someone who cleans out a liquor store, is just as outraged over Freddie Gray as the next person, and we have no right to point it out as the shameless crime and opportunism that it is.

for telling the police to stand down and not do their job.

"Give the space to destroy".

In the long run, these "kids" have hurt themselves. Merchants will be reluctant to come back into the neighborhood. I'm sympathetic to their plight but they shouldn't have done this. I don't have any good answers.

So sad.

Empty storefronts and vacant lots will do wonders for the community. Lots of jobs I hear.

Yikes!

Im guessing as a small business in an impoverished neighborhood, they simply couldn't afford it.

That's probably more than the yearly profit of a lot of those businesses!

some of the worst poverty stricken neighborhoods are simply uninsurable.

I will tell you now, that Baltimore neighborhood is now uninsurable. Anyone who opens up a shop there now will not have insurance. This has been repeated numerous times over the past few days but too many DUers have been glossing over the long term repercussions for this community.

and how so many of us "accidentally" end up dead...Keep your eye on the ball...

n/t

The pain and horror of deaths like Freddie Grays, and the long term devastation to this community from the rioting aren't mutually exclusive.

I'm saddened that you're so indifferent to treat them both equally...

But I don't blame you, since DU always seems to go through this song-and-dance when racial strife is on primetime news, and it's something you'll never fully understand if you're not one of us...

I haven't prioritized the economic fall-out over the deaths of people in the AA community at the hands of the police. Please don't put words in my mouth.

A few months ago you and I engaged in an exchange where you point blank explained - you don't have the same experience of America because you don't appear as a bi racial woman - the way I do as a bi racial woman. It was the exchange where you seemed upset that I couldn't give weight in the modern era to the issues in Ireland of years past . . . Remember? I couldn't feel empathy because My Irish ancestry is solid Protestant - lace curtain variety.

How we experience things, the influence of our elders will make us lean in different directions.

You may not feel as connected to the black American experience as others do. My father was an expat from Alabama ((I grew up in Western NY )For me - this brutality is nothing new. This has been going on for 150 years - but now we have citizen surveillance on our side. I had his real time experience to look to, my own in a majority white community in the 70's and 80's, the warmth of being able to retreat into my friends whose mom's were also involved in Jack and Jill, etc etc that alone provided a shared empathy and experience in America.

Now we can document these things real time - The cell phone is mightier than the gun. Who knew? And what the cell phone showed was so horrific - that charges and arrests have been made.

If these were hate crimes - then that too shall be revealed. But - if you stand back and really take a look at the OP-

You can't see where he has been visible in calling things hate crimes when it is human beings who are black and losing their lives.

Maybe I'm wrong? If I am I will apologize to him.

I'm not taking the bait that this is or is not a hate crime. I don't know enough about the neighborhoods dynamics to speak to that. If you search this thread, I specifically offer no commentary about the racial aspect of the destruction other than the words of a single reporter from the NYT.

My only concern on this thread, is the long term destruction to this community and how they overcome what's happened there.

This concern doesn't outweigh the greater problem of police violence towards black men.

That is first and foremost the greater issue. This thread is tangential to that and caught my eye because of the lack of economic recovery in similarly riot-torn neighborhoods historically.

So what conclusion am I to make?

You're acting like these two problems can be treated separately; they can't.