being a fucking war monger on the other hand damn sure does

i agree with you BTW

Graham's sexual orientation has absolutely NOTHING to do with anything. Period.

We don't know what his identity is, and we're making jokes based on his mannerisms which is wrong.

Who cares about his sexual orientation? That's not the point. The man is a cynical hypocrite who plays upon the prejudices of his constituency.

Btw..thats a fair question: where does he stand on Gay Rights?

And though, it goes with out saying I'll say it anyway; he is a cynical hypocrite and what ever his sexual orientation preferences are not the point what.so.ever.

It appears to me he hates being ignored so it is probably best to ignore his tantrums.

He's cast from the same mold that formed Ken Mehlman or Roy Cohn. Yet, HIS sexual orientation is off-limits?

Sorry, I disagree with you insofar as the larger context of his record is prima facie evidence of rank hypocrisy.

You have any proof other than speculation? Cohn was known for being gay, as is Mehlman. They were exposed as hypocrites because they were exposed as homosexuals. What we are seeing here is rumor-mongering used as a poor substitute for truth. His sexual orientation is unknown, and therefore, isn't a hypocrite, just a run-of-the-mill homophobe. The "fag jokes" are even worse, yet seem to be "excused" because Graham might be gay.

I haven't seen any fag jokes on DU. If you can think of recent ones, can you please post a link, TIA.

I didn't say you had to have proof to have an opinion. However, basing a charge of hypocrisy on speculation, is just speculation too, and not fact.

Perhaps you don't see them as "fag jokes", but I do:

"The first Queer Republican Candidate"

""I've always depended on the kindness of Kochs!""

""As God is my witness, I'll never go unPACed again!""

On the subject of these jokes, I replied to you downthread. Cheers.

And I think it is unfair to assume that people are only attacking him due to stereotyping when they are really attacking him for his hypocrisy towards gay citizenry, their issues, and their rights.

I do have a problem with people suing stereotypes to criticize him. I didn't assume anything, that would be those assuming he is gay!

They have every right to be pissed at THEIR Senator and HIS hypocrisy.

Apparently their mileage varies from yours.

And I have already said, repeatedly, it isn't the criticism of the hypocrisy but how it is done, and this ISN'T the SC gay activist crowd, so your mileage may vary!

and WILL discuss exactly what we want to discuss about Lindsey Graham based on every aspect of his CHARACTER, which includes being a major hypocrite.

I think it is right to scold those who actually ARE basing their attacks on stereotype, but, for those of us who work on issues and on GOTV in the Carolinas, I side with calling him out for his apparent hypocrisy. So far, the 'old tradition' of deep closets has been winning down here. I hope it doesn't continue past the next election cycle.

It is HOW it is being done, by using anti-gay stereotypes and slurs. So, it seems we are in agreement. I lived in SC for several years. I have spoken from the steps of the state capitol during a gay pride rally as I was the elected representative of the coalition of out GLBT college students. I was at USC when adding "sexual orientation" to the non-discrimination clause was a battle.

The South has always had deep closets and will likely continue to do so for many years to come.

since he is the one that displays them every chance he gets near a microphone to whine about Obama's military policies.

; )

Graham, like all republicans when it comes to Obama's military policies (hell, ANY policies), are just big whiners!

She came very close to beating an incumbent Republican.
SC is a small state and everybody knows everybody. The gay community is alive and well but in general still closeted. Ketner knows those in that community.

She did an interview after the election and outed Graham and several higher ups in the state legislature.
Believe it or not, few really care unless he turns up leading rainbow rallies. Many people have brought it up and it never gains any traction. This state is impossible to understand.

I believe Ketner.

Claims that he is a rank hypocrite? I think that would make the case for shaming him by homosexuals for being a sanctimonious evil person. Not for being gay but for harming gays while gay. What's your take on this?

Support the constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage. (Aug 2008)
Voted NO on reauthorizing the Violence Against Women Act. (Feb 2013)
Voted YES on recommending Constitutional ban on flag desecration. (Jun 2006)
Voted YES on constitutional ban of same-sex marriage. (Jun 2006)
Voted YES on banning gay adoptions in DC. (Jul 1999)
Voted YES on ending preferential treatment by race in college admissions. (May 1998)
Supports anti-flag desecration amendment. (Mar 2001)
Rated 0% by the ACLU, indicating an anti-civil rights voting record. (Dec 2002)
Rated 0% by the HRC, indicating an anti-gay-rights stance. (Dec 2006)
Rated 11% by the NAACP, indicating an anti-affirmative-action stance. (Dec 2006)
Amend Constitution to define traditional marriage. (Jun 2008)

and in return, was rewarded for that collusion.

His votes amount to a classification of LGBTQ people as second-class citizens, yet he continues to hold a US Senate seat.

THAT is the supreme hypocrisy.

for five seconds. They mock him consistently. I think again, because of his stance on issues rather then actually being gay.

Last edited Tue Jun 2, 2015, 09:13 AM - Edit history (1)

By all that is holy and unholy, THANK YOU!!

The "it's the hypocrisy" meme needs to die (at least in the case)! Of course, the grand irony is the reason people are claiming it's about the hypocrisy is because Graham is supposedly gay, much of which is based on his mannerisms! Look at that, using anti-gay stereotypes, then bashing someone for not being "right" on GLBT issues!

Again, thank you for saying something!

I don't see why calling out Graham for his hypocrisy on gay issues is any different.

And, YES, I do KNOW he is gay.

Your strong belief is insufficient.


Also, the posters who call him a hypocrite either aren't backing up the accusation with specifics (that is, without being calling him a chickenhawk--which would incidentally be correct) or else are calling him a hypocrite because they somehow "KNOW he is gay."

Further, even if the gay hypocrisy charge turns out to be accurate, it absolutely doesn't excuse the insults based on his perceived homosexuality or effeminate mannerisms. These are explicit declarations that being feminine or being homosexual is an insult.


I have no symathy for people who feign outrage upon being called out for posting homophobic slurs when they're clearly doing exactly that.

It later showed up here at DU in 2002 when he was running against Alex Sanders and campaign activists, including gay activists, in SC at the time were divided whether Graham should be outed. Sanders wouldn't allow it. I sided with opening the closet door because I DID take him seriously as a warmonger AND an anti-gay OPPORTUNIST playing to stereotypical RELIGIOUS bigotry.

Some SC, and NC members here know of me. That may not be sufficient for you, but, I don't see that as my problem.

Which frankly should be insufficent for you.

However, even if he is gay, then attacking him for being gay is the same as attacking anyone else for being gay.

We should certainly attack him as a hypocrite if he's shown to be one, but using his hypocrisy as an excuse to make gay jokes is unacceptable.

I guess because I am a female I can ONLY KNOW by 'hearsay', but, I would be comfortable betting the deed to my house that the information is 100% accurate. You don't know this same crowd that we share, so, you don't understand my certainty…...YOUR view is the one you WANT to have for this thread.

Why is this issue so hard for some to understand?

That's what I've read here and in other threads of like-minded bigotry.

and votes against gays, he should be called on it.

And he should be nowhere near any button that says "launch".

Is gay or not. His stances and voting record are abysmal.

say he tied his fortunes to a LGBTQ-phobic agenda and as such deserves every bit of it he gets in return.

but I know absolutely nothing about what this is about. Never cared or interested ever but all I see on a search is never married and no children. He also voted for the Defense of Marriage Act which matters to me more. I have a feeling the speculation is coming from the Republicans or originally anyways, I can't stand him for precisely the reason you mention in the title (war monger) but Republicans in general don't like him because he is "too liberal".

Republicans have a history of this. Went Barnie Frank answered a reporter's question and came out in a straight-forward, matter-of-fact, who gives a damn manner.. next thing there was manufactured media sensation of him running a male prostitution ring that almost ended him politically because of the huge threat he was to their policies, especially his way of handling BS with his frank manner.

His own party will expose him. IMO it's comedy gold. If he thinks he can slide without a first lady, go for it Lindsay. I can't wait to hear he never met the "right" woman.

Truly if he bombed and invaded every country on the planet, America would be finally safe. That's all every American thinks about, being safe.

The man is an unmitigated scumbag and I hope the voters treat him as such.

so-called "manly", not so effeminate men are all straight.

I completely agree. "feminine" and "masculine" are not always indicative of gay or straight.

I hope others will pay attention to your post

See, in the mind of some, a "fag joke" isn't really one when it is about a politician on the right. It's an exception to the rule of homophobia. I have even seen some GLBT posters give it the which demonstrates just how deeply homophobia is ingrained in our society as a whole. The fact all of this is based on speculation, and not anything resembling a fact, makes it much worse in my opinion. It is a double whammy of sorts, "let's ridicule him for being a fag, even though we don't know, he just acts like one!" Those hiding behind "it's the hypocrisy" need to get the fuck over it! It is hypocrisy if he is gay, not because he is suspected of being gay! This falls into the category of "homophobes are really secret gays!", yet, another offensive stereotype taking to absurd lengths. Ahh, heterosexual privilege what a sight to see!

As a minor note, I am pretty sure you are referring to his sexual "orientation" not his sexual "preferences." There is a difference. The former is one's orientation in life (hetero-,homo-,bi-,a-sexual), as opposed to "preferences" which can range from vanilla (tickling your lover's butt with a feather) to kinky (using the whole chicken to tickle your lover's butt).

Do you know what homophobia is?

Believe such posts would be a violation of TOS

It never crossed my mind, til your OP....

It is indeed worthy.

Mocks him for his odd blend of militarism, fear-mongering, and hysteria blended with a strange southern identity. Thus the Scarlet Ohara jokes. I don't know if this is what you are talking about but I personally think that when you start trumpeting about the use of military force and about fear of foreign enemies in the way that Graham does he deserves John Stewart's mockery of him.

Graham's actions and policy ideas actually do kill people after all.


If there is some other kind of attack going on I am not as aware of it.

Has he ever breached the subject? Why do people think he might be gay?

Because they are evoking gay stereotypes of gay men being effeminate, that he is a bachelor, and he has close ties with several powerful male politicians; in conclusion, because he fits a "gay" stereotype! oh, and because he is homophobic, he must secretly be a homo!

"because he may be Gay"

"It is relevant when he votes against the gays."

"He's cast from the same mold that formed Ken Mehlman or Roy Cohn. Yet, HIS sexual orientation is off-limits?"

"Supposing he is gay"

"If he is gay"

"I can't wait to hear he never met the "right" woman."

I really shouldn't have to walk on eggshells at du. Each of these comments is crap in their own way.

"He's throwing his sun hat into the ring"

""As God is my witness, I'll never go unPACed again!""

""I've always depended on the kindness of Kochs!""

"The first Queer Republican Candidate" (hidden, thankfully)

His announcement is a big joke, as his candidacy, but it should not be a big "fag" joke, and some are definitely turning it into one!

DU is not "Drag" Underground. The "jokes" being used are at the expense of gay people, and it is not as a ridicule technique of the homophobia in society. And "trannie"? Really?

I also know the vernacular and I know it is offensive to transgender people and it also conflates transgender people and transvestites. It as you said earlier, some things are OK in a private arena, not in a public one.

"Or maybe I'm misreading your replies."

You are. We just aren't in agreement on this.

Cheers.

If you equate his mincing and hysterical behavior with homosexuality, perhaps you are the one with a problem?

edit: typo

Would you have made the same comments about McCain? Cruz? Dole? Rubio? The very fact you describe him as "mincing and hysterical" says it all!

mannerisms that can be more appropriately lampooned.

"Sissy", "mincing", "tiara"

You understand that this is not OK, right?

In the more likely event that you don't care, then it's even more disgusting and vile.

says a lot about you. None of it good.

I know, I was on the jury. That jury service is how I became aware of this OP and all the vile comments here. I feel like I need a shower and I just got out of the shower.

I'm hopped up on painkillers today, I'm glad that one stayed bc Orrex got a crap hide above, that's how I found out about this thread. Just woke up to this bullshit.

and dog whistles. That should have given him extra leeway with any jury.

Not every juror does.

Buh bye Tim.

EarlG showed this one the door as a homophobic troll.

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And, there is nothing wrong with the word sissy. lol!

But it is well beyond the rules to allow straight men to come to DU and use it as an insult against supposedly gay men. I'm glad the guy got banned.

He seemed quit vile for awhile now. After all the other bigoted post he made in this thread, you would think calling a man a sissy was t he last he would want to go.

I'm a southerner. My little brother called me sissy, sis, bsis growing up. I'm not even sure he knew my given name. lol!

No one is telling you to "walk on eggshells at du" but you shouldn't dismiss their concerns because you disagree.

You're a paragon of virtue, Tom Ripley.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Jun 1, 2015, 03:23 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: "Graham is indeed a sissy, but that doesn't mean he is gay.
Graham is indeed also a warmonger. As the late Gore Vidal said, "Give a sissy a gun and he will kill everything in sight"
This guy is actually a bigot.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't frequently agree with Orrex (70% of the time I don't) but with Tom Ripley hurling around homophobic dog whistles like "Sissy" I am not going to hide Orrex' post calling him a bigot because, well, he sounds like a bigot.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: The thread is bad and replies are bad, this needs to stop.

a hateful hypocrite on every issue important to gay citizens and those of us who side with their issues.

I think it is wrong to assume he is being attacked here FOR being gay - he ISN'T. As usual it is because of the hypocrisy.

I have known for a FACT that he is gay since 2001. Mutual friends at Pawleys Island.

Gay activists wanted Alex Sanders campaign to out Graham during the 2002 race, but, Sanders wouldn't do it. The South's elite have a long tradition of leaving closet doors firmly shut. Something to admire in that, but, not particularly helpful when anti-gay issues are being exploited by RW power elites and using religious fervor against gays to their benefit at the ballot box.

It's not really a secret among the politically active in the GLBT community here in the Carolinas. I'm not gay, but have friends who are, and are politically active.

can get, especially in the Carolinas.

He takes political positions that have a direct impact on the ability of other people to live their lives honestly.

His positions on these issues put other people in danger. If you are gay, or if others THINK you are ... his positions on LGBT issues hurt you.

As some others have noted ... no straight candidate will be able to avoid having their personal lives run through an electron microscope during their campaign.

And there will be endless jokes made that their expense. Think Hillary and Bill's relationship and sexual past won't be an issue? Won't be mocked and ridiculed?

If Graham wants to run, the perception of him as a likely self-loathing closeted Republican homosexual is fair game.

He should feel no less heat than the Clinton's will, or DID, when Graham ran the impeachment hearings.

nt

Hope the they get the message.

nt

many hidden posts on this thread. Educate yourself, "sissy" is a pejorative term for a boy or man who violates or does not meet the standard male gender role and should have no part on DU.

lol!

He won't last a week.

Recommended.

(who isn't particularly fey to begin with) had voted against the LBGTQ community on multiple occasions, his orientation would have been very much an issue. If one is going to stand against the LGBTQ community, he/she better damn well not be on the 'down low'.

on the "liberal" message board.

I'm even more saddened that there are folks here that would defend this kind of crap.

for sounding like a stereotypical southern matriarch from the 1920s, and wandering into bigoted crap. Expecting him to say "Ah do dee-clair" at any moment doesn't say anything about his orientation, but it's waaaaaaaay to common for people to go from that to bigotville.

So it's a whole lot better to just stay away from it. He's got plenty of stuff to mock on his policies.

Orientation is how you are. Preference is what you like to do with how you are.

Orientation is something you were born with. Preference implies voluntary choice.


http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/06/sexual_preference_is_wrong_say_sexual_orientation_instead.html

When there is a question of does DU really do anything, or have you ever had your mind changed because of something on DU, the answer is yes. Words matter, definitions matter, because people matter.

For the OP, bash him for hypocrisy and war mongering but bashing him for his sexual orientation is as stupid as bashing for his skin color, or whether he is left or right handed.

They were hidden but people don't forget hateful comments like those.

That said, it is not my place to tell others what is acceptable but at least consider the following:


If Hillary Clinton is being mocked for being a woman, it's offensive.

If Barack Obama is being mocked for being black, it's offensive.

Graham isn't out so it's just speculation at this point, but to me mocking him for being gay is every bit as offensive as mocking Clinton or Obama because of how they were born.

It's good to know where people stand. And who they stand with.

You shouldn't have to read stuff like that here.