This is only eight years back, and the consequences of Hillary's support for outsourcing are still very much with us.

Why do you want Hillary Clinton as President? Is there something within just the past year or two which makes you a Hillary Clinton supporter?

I don't really care what someone said 8 years ago

I want to know what they'll do now

people grow and change due to new experiences and exposure to new ideas and the such

are you the same person you were 7 years ago?

Of course I had spent well over fifty years forming my opinions by seven years ago.

Insurance, criminal law and credit score all rely heavily on past behavior to predict future behavior.

The entire IT industry has been decimated by outsourcing -- and Hillary Clinton was very much involved in promulgating it.

You also didn't answer my question as to why you are supporting her for President.

I see it hasn't dawned on you yet, what people have DONE in their HISTORY, is a far better indicator of what they actually are, than what they say to please you?

Really?


WOW!

lame.

Bubbye.

too great a cause for concern. Your mileage may vary.

In general, 60-year-olds retain the same worldview when they are 67.

While most 30-somethings are quite a bit different by 74. And that particular 74 year old has said it was a mistake. Could you link Clinton's statement that outsourcing was a mistake?

Also, fiction and non-fiction are two different things.

I try

thats what you bring to a grown up conversation ? 50 shades of what ?

Sounds good. Now talk about how she was Castros secret lover, and how she sold the US down the river, and threw puppies in wood chippers. Whatever you have to do to make yourself feel better.

But I do suspect a lot of women will vote for her just because she is a woman and they want one in the office of POTUS. I think we should have a woman too, but I would like a progressive liberal female POTUS. And I'm not willing to give up my principles just to promote my gender being chosen for the first time. I'll wait for a more fiscally progressive female candidate, thanks.

...that opposing the outsourcing of well-paying American jobs is an "isolationist" position?

And that being "pro-American" is, uh, wrong? Do I have that correct?

"that there aren't enough skilled workers." Saw it a few weeks ago and now am seeing it again. Neoliberalism can't stay in costume very long.

They've all outed themselves pretty well and seem to think nobody notices OR more likely they just don't care.

they are WHORES

Preach it Skittles! Outsourcing was the same bullshit that helped destroy our middle class and weakened unions and saw pensions go bye bye.

ME THINKS, those here that scoff at us mere workers...have never had to be IN the labor force in their entire lives!

I would bet GOOD money on it!

I don't think they have any firm positions on much and THAT is the problem.

They are in rationalizing mode -this means that whatever their candidate does or say can easily be accepted as the "right thing".

That is the benefit of a free floating intellectual and moral compass.

And get out more.

What does opposing the wholesale overseas relocation of a good chunk of the US tech industry have to do with "isolation"?

Now it's personal.

Check the post edit, if you want to see it.

Can't they build their own? It's not like they're Somalia where there's no resources and no functional government.

How does exporting piles of money help us? Cheaper goods that we can't buy because we don't have jobs anymore?

That's just sticking a negative label on something instead of discussing the matter.

Regardless of her position on this topic.

Why, it's horrible! And it's from eight years ago!?! Everyone knows 60 year olds completely change their worldview by 67! And they never, ever say anything about changing their opinion!

And Senators and Secretaries of State have absolutely no effect on outsourcing and thus can't do anything to change them!!

And this is sexist! What are you, an isolationist?! And they deserved to lose their jobs! You don't care about poor people in other countries!!

Wrrabbragle!!

I shouldn't have read your post while eating. Now I have to go get a cloth to clean off my monitor.

What makes it so funny is it's so true. And I guess that also makes it pretty sad.

...over Clinton's background looking for stuff to criticize her about? Why don't you hire Kenneth Starr to investigate?

IT'S HER TURN!!!

Questions lead to issues donchaknow!

Mistakes were made. Like that pesky Iraq War vote. I'm confident she's grown up since then. Of course, that means her treasured legacy as First Lady is off limits, too. Whoops!

and left soon to be unemployed training their own replacements (from some other country and paid pennies on the dollar).

Crap deals are still crap deals to the labor force.

As much as I have benefited by being born a US citizen and have had a pretty good life as a tech worker, I understand that nothing can stay the same forever.

When I first was in college in the 60s there were a few Asian students who were in the sciences and engineering - perhaps 5%.

I would guess that more than 50% of the papers published in the scientific journals are by people that have foreign birth.

Yes, we do have some good schools and good facilities, but these are being kneecapped by budget constraints. All of education - grade and advanced - is being corrupted by the needs of the money-baggers.

National boundaries really don't count much anymore with the new international corporatism. US citizens will eventually need to compete with people from around the world on almost all facets of services and goods. This will take some time to settle down and there will be a lot of pain and disruption while it happens.

Perhaps the only services that will be paid at good US rates will be those that involve US security (armed forces, INS, police.)

Tell the Chinese that protectionism and national boundaries don't help in the long run and they will laugh at you.

The country in which you and I live in, doesn't care about it's OWN labor force...so why would anyone assume they will care about helping a foreign labor force rise to a level of middle class?

If we don't care about our nation in certain basic ways, then what point is it to BE a nation?

Globalization does not mean corporations MUST be given the right of way over people, bad enough how they treat the work force.

I also wasn't arguing that anyone in power in the US or anywhere else cares about the labor force. Perhaps some of the social-democratic "old" European countries still do but they are, of course, now part of a much larger economic group (EU).

And I don't know what the point is it to BE a nation.

We (the USofA) have joined so many treaty and trade organizations that we really don't have a national boundary. Of course we want to stop new arrivists from grabbing our wealth, etc. but someone from Chile, Philippines, Uzbekistan could fit perfectly within our borders.

Money, information, resource, people treat national borders as merely an inconvenience. The US is one of the most permeable countries that has solid borders - hasn't helped.

Unless we require all corporations to pull back into national-only and we start enforcing much stricter cross-country visa controls, we are going to have to accept that this globe is open to all. Build a personal enclave if you don't like it.

Until wages and benefits are lowered to Malaysian standards?

"US citizens will eventually need to compete with people from around the world on almost all facets of services and goods."

Outsourcing entire tech industries negates competition; it does not encourage it. And though your post implies that there is a shortage of home-grown US STEM-field educated people -- or a lack of ability compared to those in other nations -- that is proven to be a myth (at least for now).

I have to say that I always get a chuckle out of the "protectionism will hurt us in the long run" spiel. Besides the point that preventing wholesale outsourcing of industries should not be labeled as "protectionism", how has opening the floodgates to cheap imported products helped the US over the past 40 years? Incomes have stagnated (and even declined, in many areas), job security and opportunities have evaporated, and personal and government debt has skyrocketed.

And not for any lack of US know-how:

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2014/09/15/stem-graduates-cant-find-jobs

http://www.epi.org/publication/bp359-guestworkers-high-skill-labor-market-analysis/

H1Bs were ramped up because salaries for technical workers were reaching management levels. And we can't have that. It would be totally wrong for mere peons to be paid so much.

So H1Bs to bring in a lot of competition, but leave it time-limited so you "those people" don't actually immigrate to the US. And they're even shackled to the job! You get to threaten to throw them out of the country if they get uppity about the abuse you hurl at them.

If we actually had a shortage that you wanted to solve, you'd actually let the workers stay. They'd become Americans and you'd fix the shortage. Instead, we ship them back after 6 years.

I've been working the tech sector for 40+ years as a software developer. While I've stayed on top of a lot of the improvements/changes in how software is developed, I realize that I am no longer as productive as someone with more energy and freshness. My knowledge of processes and background is valuable but I'm not sure it is worth more than a young eager intelligent person from anywhere in the world.

And I also agree that we should stop using artificial visa requirements to force non-US workers to leave and re-apply to work here.

The borders around the world are becoming more and more porous. Not just to the flow of workers, immigrants, but also to the flow of money and knowledge.

The faster and better we figure out how to deal positively with this shift away from statism/nationalism, the better.

Last edited Wed Jun 3, 2015, 07:38 PM - Edit history (1)

The reason to hire an older developer is not because he can crank out thousands of lines of code in an absurdly short period of time.

You hire the older developer because the code he does write will work. It will have FAR fewer bugs. And they won't base your entire product on something they heard about on redit because it's cool! So what if it's version 0.4. It's cool!

Pumping out vast output is a fantastic recipe for broken software that costs much, much more to fix while driving away customers.