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Archae

(46,379 posts)
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 10:44 PM Jun 2015

Anti-vaxxer kids getting sick with unpasteurized goat milk...

Why am I not surprised?

Toddlers from anti-vaxxer hotbed Orange County get sick from raw goat milk

As if it wasn’t enough that Orange County, California was home to a January outbreak of the measles – a disease once thought nearly nonexistent due to mandatory vaccinations – three young children from the area were recently sickened after being fed raw goat’s milk, the Orange County Register reports.

All of the children contracted campylobacteriosis, an infection associated with unpasteurized dairy products. All affected children are under 5 years of age, the Register reported.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/toddlers-from-anti-vaxxer-hotbed-orange-county-get-sick-from-raw-goat-milk/

31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Anti-vaxxer kids getting sick with unpasteurized goat milk... (Original Post) Archae Jun 2015 OP
I feel really sorry for those children. CaliforniaPeggy Jun 2015 #1
$32 a gallon? Is this one of those things where if you get charged outrageously you think you are uppityperson Jun 2015 #2
The Philz Coffee of goat milk arcane1 Jun 2015 #3
The militant organics crowd wonders wht people think they are nuts MattBaggins Jun 2015 #9
That's probably a little on the high side, but not that far off Major Nikon Jun 2015 #13
Goat milk is not mass produced by agribiz MH1 Jun 2015 #19
Many people don't understand the differences between raw milk and pasteurized milk Major Nikon Jun 2015 #20
Indeed, and if more than a few days old, goat milk gets pungent and is good to heat and make into uppityperson Jun 2015 #21
If I am not mistaken - we started pasteurizing milk because of TB. jwirr Jun 2015 #4
We started pasteurizing milk because their was little to no other regulation on milk production Major Nikon Jun 2015 #12
I think both of us are correct. Wikipedia says that pasteurization kills harmful bacteria and jwirr Jun 2015 #14
Yes, I'm not contradicting you Major Nikon Jun 2015 #16
I have seen the weight gain issue in practice. My dad was visiting a hog farm and he told me to look jwirr Jun 2015 #17
The OC Birchers are realky into alt med. LeftyMom Jun 2015 #5
Then there's the coffee enemas... longship Jun 2015 #7
PSA on this one nadinbrzezinski Jun 2015 #6
But MONSANTO..... FUKUSHIMA MattBaggins Jun 2015 #8
What the hell is Monsanto? NuclearDem Jun 2015 #18
The article does not support your subject line. aikoaiko Jun 2015 #10
As if the title of the rawstory article wasn't misleading enough... Major Nikon Jun 2015 #11
Free range vomiters? randome Jun 2015 #15
So, were those particular children vaccinated? MineralMan Jun 2015 #22
I know a child who almost died, had organ failure, and is permanently disabled due to Arugula Latte Jun 2015 #23
This happens with many sorts of foods consumed raw Major Nikon Jun 2015 #25
people did in fact get sick and they died drinking raw milk.... mike_c Jun 2015 #30
Franz Kafka was an extreme, obsessive health food nut. He develoed TB from drinking tblue37 Jun 2015 #24
Oh, those poor children! DawgHouse Jun 2015 #26
My daughter was allergic to cows milk HockeyMom Jun 2015 #27
Lactaid is for people with the inability to breakdown lactose, which is... 3catwoman3 Jun 2015 #28
a friend of mine posted the best response to this story.... mike_c Jun 2015 #29
There is no indication in the story, about if the parents are anti-vaxx or not. Archae Jun 2015 #31

uppityperson

(115,681 posts)
2. $32 a gallon? Is this one of those things where if you get charged outrageously you think you are
Fri Jun 5, 2015, 10:46 PM
Jun 2015

getting something really good? I mean, on top of the antivaxxer stuff.

Major Nikon

(36,828 posts)
13. That's probably a little on the high side, but not that far off
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 10:36 AM
Jun 2015

I haven't bought any goat milk in a while, but it's much more expensive than cow milk. The manufacturer in question handles all the production and distribution and they are a small producer. I doubt the markup is all that high.

MH1

(17,635 posts)
19. Goat milk is not mass produced by agribiz
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 11:42 AM
Jun 2015

It is usually produced by very small-scale local farmers.

I grew up on a small family "hobby"" farm (Dad had a regular job too), we had goats and cows, and we very occasionally sold goat's milk to someone whose child was medically unable to to digest cow's milk. We couldn't afford pasteurization and I know in that case purchasers had to sign something acknowledging the risk and holding us harmless. Or something like that (I was pretty small at the time so don't know the legal details. Maybe it wasn't really binding and that could explain why we didn't pursue it as a business).

But anyway even if mass-produced I'm sure, based on my experience, that goat's milk would be quite a bit more expensive than cow's milk.

Oh and to my knowledge I never ever got sick from drinking the raw milk from our goats or cows. But there are hygienic and unhygienic ways to get the milk. (the hygienic way means, among other things, that the barn cats get at least a couple squirts from each cow. That was the fun part. )

Major Nikon

(36,828 posts)
20. Many people don't understand the differences between raw milk and pasteurized milk
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 12:03 PM
Jun 2015

The reason why milk producers rarely get sick from drinking their own raw milk is because they get it as fresh as possible. Raw milk does not have nearly the shelf life of normally pasteurized milk and especially UHT pasteurized milk. It needs to be consumed within a few days of purchase and preferably obtained as local as possible.

uppityperson

(115,681 posts)
21. Indeed, and if more than a few days old, goat milk gets pungent and is good to heat and make into
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 01:02 PM
Jun 2015

yogurt or cheese.

Major Nikon

(36,828 posts)
12. We started pasteurizing milk because their was little to no other regulation on milk production
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 10:21 AM
Jun 2015

Cows were fed diets insufficient to combat infections. Milk was extracted in extremely unsanitary conditions. No testing was being done. There was little to no infant formula that wasn't dairy based, so people fed milk to infants who either weren't breastfed or were weaned early.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
14. I think both of us are correct. Wikipedia says that pasteurization kills harmful bacteria and
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 10:53 AM
Jun 2015

prevents TB, brucellosis, diphtheria, scarlet fever, and Q fever.

When I was small my father was a dairy farmer and we drank the milk without pasteurization and were okay but the conditions of many farms were very bad. Plus when you milked a cow the milk was all poured into the same storage cans. If one cow was sick her milk went into that can also making all of it dangerous. I do remember some testing but do not know what it was for. The inspector would come and stay at the house over night. To this day I wonder why they did that.

Today many of the diseases that cattle got then are stopped by the antibiotics they put in the food for the animals. Which in itself is causing troubles. I wonder which diseases would come back if they stopped using the antibiotics?

Major Nikon

(36,828 posts)
16. Yes, I'm not contradicting you
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 11:06 AM
Jun 2015

...but it's just a matter of cause vs effect. With proper regulation and consumer education, raw milk is a perfectly safe product.

The primary reason antibiotics are given to livestock because they boost milk production (for dairy) and it boosts animal weight. In both cases the gain is around 10%, so it makes those products that much cheaper. The cost of this practice is antibiotic resistant diseases in animals.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
17. I have seen the weight gain issue in practice. My dad was visiting a hog farm and he told me to look
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 11:21 AM
Jun 2015

at them. What I saw was some really sickly looking pigs - skinny, listless. If it were not for the resistance problem I can definitely understand the use of antibiotics.

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
5. The OC Birchers are realky into alt med.
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 12:54 AM
Jun 2015

Just wait until they start turning themselves blue with their colloidal silver obsession.

longship

(40,416 posts)
7. Then there's the coffee enemas...
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 04:44 AM
Jun 2015

As Janet Jackson once said, "Flushing out the sad cells."

Delusional people. Fad bullshit. All of it!

Now where did I leave my neti pot?

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
6. PSA on this one
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 12:57 AM
Jun 2015

if you are an adult, have a conversation with your doctor about antibody testing, yes they can do that.

Mine, came back to the point of are you sure you ever got vaccinated? So got the MMR.

And most adults do not think about this one.

aikoaiko

(34,186 posts)
10. The article does not support your subject line.
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 10:11 AM
Jun 2015

For all we know every kid who got sick from goats milk was vaccinated.

I know plenty of people who vaccinate their kids but use raw milk (usually cow milk, though). The raw milk trend, I think, crosses over the vaccination demographics.

Major Nikon

(36,828 posts)
11. As if the title of the rawstory article wasn't misleading enough...
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 10:15 AM
Jun 2015

your title is blatantly false. Anti-vax has nothing to do with this story other than serving as a convenient red herring.

Just sayin'

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
15. Free range vomiters?
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 10:58 AM
Jun 2015

It's freedom, damnit!
[hr][font color="blue"][center]“If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.”
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)
[/center][/font][hr]

MineralMan

(146,359 posts)
22. So, were those particular children vaccinated?
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 02:17 PM
Jun 2015

This was a misleading title. Too bad, since both issues are important, although unrelated. Very poor journalism from Rawstory. Too bad it got reproduced here on DU, with an even poorly worded thread title.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
23. I know a child who almost died, had organ failure, and is permanently disabled due to
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 02:19 PM
Jun 2015

drinking raw milk.

People say "Oh, heck, people used to drink raw milk all he time and didn't get sick!" But the current strains of e coli and the like are deadly. I know there is a difference between un-pasteurized and raw but the message needs to get out that this stuff is nothing to play around with.

Major Nikon

(36,828 posts)
25. This happens with many sorts of foods consumed raw
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 04:59 PM
Jun 2015

Raw oysters, sushi, raw spinach and other raw leafy vegetables are just a few examples. Is there an increased risk of consuming all of these things compared to other foods? Perhaps, but one needs to consider how much to make an informed decision. Lots of people consume raw food products. Very few get sick. Cooked foods and pasteurized products aren't without risks either. The biggest risks of pathogenic contamination exists right in people's own kitchens.

mike_c

(36,281 posts)
30. people did in fact get sick and they died drinking raw milk....
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 05:44 PM
Jun 2015

That's why public health laws requiring pasteurization were enacted-- in response to a very real public health problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_raw_milk_debate

According to a 2009 review, milkborne disease outbreaks made up approximately 25% of all food and water contamination disease outbreaks in 1938; pasteurization is largely credited for a dramatic decrease in milkborne disease outbreaks, which made up less than 1% of food and water contamination disease outbreaks by 2005.

tblue37

(65,556 posts)
24. Franz Kafka was an extreme, obsessive health food nut. He develoed TB from drinking
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 03:23 PM
Jun 2015

raw cow's milk. What bitter irony: the regimen he followed because of obsessive concern over his health is what led to his contracting the disease that killed him.

I sometimes read the blogs of people who offer extreme dietary and behavioral advice. (I have a kind of anthropological interest in such things.) I gasp at some of their bizarre suggestions--and at the fact that there are people who actually follow their advice.

 

HockeyMom

(14,337 posts)
27. My daughter was allergic to cows milk
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 05:10 PM
Jun 2015

Actually as an adult, she still is and drinks goats or almond milk. Lactaid doesn't work. While I breastfed her until she weaned herself at 20 months, her pediatrician recommended goats milk as supplement at 9 months old. I bought powered goats milk (not sold in containers in supermarkets then) and mixed it myself. In fact, I gave it to her throughout her school years. A few years ago, she bought, as an adult, goats milk at a farm. Not pasteurized.

3catwoman3

(24,150 posts)
28. Lactaid is for people with the inability to breakdown lactose, which is...
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 05:32 PM
Jun 2015

...the natural sugar in milk - the condition called lactose intolerance. That is totally different from being sensitive to the protein - milk allergy.

mike_c

(36,281 posts)
29. a friend of mine posted the best response to this story....
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 05:37 PM
Jun 2015
But C. difficile and Campylobacter are 100% natural! I don't see how you can convince someone that hundreds of generations of selective breeding, fencing in, impregnating, etc - and then stealing the milk meant for newborn goats and storing it in an electric refrigerator - is 100% natural and groovy - but heating the milk momentarily to 70 degrees is an un-natural conspiracy.

Archae

(46,379 posts)
31. There is no indication in the story, about if the parents are anti-vaxx or not.
Sat Jun 6, 2015, 06:59 PM
Jun 2015

BUT...

These are people obsessed with "natural" stuff, food and whatnot.

So I'd say it's a good bet that some of the parents are anti-vaxx.

Here in Wisconsin a few farmers want to sell (at a hugely inflated price, of course,) "raw" cow's milk.

They claim (with no evidence, of course,) "raw" milk is "better for us."

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