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sheshe2

(84,101 posts)
Tue Jun 9, 2015, 11:45 PM Jun 2015

The Fifth Circuit Just Stuck A Knife In Roe v. Wade



On Tuesday, a panel of three George W. Bush-appointed judges handed down a sweeping endorsement of the tactics anti-abortion lawmakers adopted in recent years in an effort to prevent abortion clinics from operating. With one narrow exception, the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit’s decision in Whole Woman’s Health v. Cole is a total defeat for abortion providers who hoped to overcome a Texas law that will shut down most of the state’s abortion clinics. Worse for women seeking an abortion, the Fifth Circuit’s opinion would give many other states broad discretion to restrict access to abortion if its reasoning is ultimately adopted by the Supreme Court.

In 2013, Texas enacted HB2, which is one of a number of sham health laws passed by anti-abortion lawmakers who believe that they found a loophole in the Supreme Court’s abortion cases. Though current Supreme Court precedent forbids laws that impose an “undue burden” on the right to choose, states may enact legitimate health regulations that govern abortion providers — and for good reason. Abortion facilities, just like any other medical facility, should be sanitary, safe and operated by competent medical personnel.

HB2 is crafted to appear like a health regulation, even though it does little to actually advance the public health. The two provisions challenged in Whole Woman’s Health include a requirement that abortion doctors have admitting privileges in a nearby hospital, and a list of expensive architectural and other requirements that abortion clinics must comply with in order to operate. There is little evidence, however, that either provision actually advances the goal of making abortion safer for women. To the contrary, a federal district judge determined that “there is no rational relationship between improved patient outcomes and hospital admitting privileges,” and he reached similar conclusions with respect to the portions of the law regulating clinic facilities.

Before HB2, Texas had 40 licensed abortion clinics. If the law takes full effect, “only seven facilities and a potential eighth will exist in Texas that will not be prevented . . . from performing abortions.” This reduced access to abortion, according to the same district judge, “almost certainly cancel[s] out any potential health benefit associated with” HB2 because of “[h]igher health risks associated with increased delays in seeking early abortion care, risks associated with longer distance automotive travel on traffic-laden highways, and the act’s possible connection to observed increases in self-induced abortions.”

MORE! http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/06/09/3667882/federal-court-decision-correct-roe-v-wade-almost-entirely-dead/
54 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The Fifth Circuit Just Stuck A Knife In Roe v. Wade (Original Post) sheshe2 Jun 2015 OP
Horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE. CaliforniaPeggy Jun 2015 #1
LikeLy heading to the SCOTUS nadinbrzezinski Jun 2015 #2
I agree. Have no idea what they will do, but there is no doubt in my mind they are placing an still_one Jun 2015 #5
I have little doubt that Roberts will vote to overturn Roe vs. Wade. Kennedy might vote to uphold it StevieM Jun 2015 #20
This isn't to overturn Roe, though it does place an undue burden on a women whose effect will be to still_one Jun 2015 #21
But if the case goes to the Supreme Court the Justices have the option of issuing a ruling that StevieM Jun 2015 #23
They won't do that this time, unless Kennedy undoes his reasoning in 1992 where he upheld Roe V. still_one Jun 2015 #28
They won't. 840high Jun 2015 #51
If you have to cross the river to find access to a back alley abortion, then Gloria Jun 2015 #25
I agree with your undue burden reasoning, but I don't blame planned parenthood. They have been still_one Jun 2015 #31
Like in most things, no coordination, it seems between Gloria Jun 2015 #33
What can I say, you're right still_one Jun 2015 #52
Something like this could theoretically be uphed hifiguy Jun 2015 #48
I agree it is an awful decision, and you would be correct if they rule for Texas, other states would still_one Jun 2015 #53
Damn tootin' it is. hifiguy Jun 2015 #54
So sick of this shit. ismnotwasm Jun 2015 #3
This is a fact. sheshe2 Jun 2015 #11
So true. brer cat Jun 2015 #39
Yep. Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #37
Anyone want to move to England? shenmue Jun 2015 #4
Where they're required to ask why you're getting an abortion, and two doctors must sign off on it? Brickbat Jun 2015 #44
Didn't know that shenmue Jun 2015 #45
I don't use the word hate very often, but right now I HATE pro-lifers. Avalux Jun 2015 #6
I hate that they're the same people who want to cut funding to prayin4rain Jun 2015 #8
They don't care what happens after they force women to have babies. Avalux Jun 2015 #9
Yep. It is just what George Carlin once said hifiguy Jun 2015 #49
not just that DonCoquixote Jun 2015 #50
yes I agree. sheshe2 Jun 2015 #26
They are *not* "pro-life," and we shouldn't let them falsely describe themselves that way villager Jun 2015 #18
stop calling them PRO-LIFERS Skittles Jun 2015 #22
+1 brer cat Jun 2015 #40
I stand corrected...anti-women it is from now on. Avalux Jun 2015 #42
and yes there are anti-women females Skittles Jun 2015 #46
.. Cha Jun 2015 #7
K&R for exposure. JEB Jun 2015 #10
kick. sheshe2 Jun 2015 #12
kick. sheshe2 Jun 2015 #13
kick. sheshe2 Jun 2015 #14
I'm heatsink. K&R nt riderinthestorm Jun 2015 #15
Our right to chose. sheshe2 Jun 2015 #16
Our right to chose. sheshe2 Jun 2015 #17
K&R betsuni Jun 2015 #19
"...a panel of three George W. Bush-appointed judges..." SunSeeker Jun 2015 #24
You got it, SunSeeker! sheshe2 Jun 2015 #27
Bush appointed judges have fucked the US for a quarter century. joshcryer Jun 2015 #35
The Republicans are handing Hillary an issue she can win the election on. jalan48 Jun 2015 #29
What goes around comes around McCamy Taylor Jun 2015 #30
Thump those bibles, you hypocritical, damned fools. Hulk Jun 2015 #32
sheshe2... joshcryer Jun 2015 #34
Thank you joshcryer. sheshe2 Jun 2015 #47
This is a horrible ruling Gothmog Jun 2015 #36
This is a terrible law, but never go to a doctor without admitting priviledges AngryAmish Jun 2015 #38
K&R nt brer cat Jun 2015 #41
k&r bigtree Jun 2015 #43

still_one

(92,552 posts)
5. I agree. Have no idea what they will do, but there is no doubt in my mind they are placing an
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 12:01 AM
Jun 2015

Last edited Wed Jun 10, 2015, 01:13 AM - Edit history (1)

undue burden on a women, and making it virtually impossible, which is a violation of roe

We will see if Robert's is a person of his word, and not override roe. I certainly hope Kennedy rules the right way, but since O'conner left, he has gotten more conservative

StevieM

(10,500 posts)
20. I have little doubt that Roberts will vote to overturn Roe vs. Wade. Kennedy might vote to uphold it
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 01:12 AM
Jun 2015

but I am by no means certain that he will.

still_one

(92,552 posts)
21. This isn't to overturn Roe, though it does place an undue burden on a women whose effect will be to
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 01:19 AM
Jun 2015

deny an abortion. As for Roberts, he might of been lying, but he made it clear he would abide by Stare Decisis

StevieM

(10,500 posts)
23. But if the case goes to the Supreme Court the Justices have the option of issuing a ruling that
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 01:24 AM
Jun 2015

overturns Roe vs. Wade completely.

still_one

(92,552 posts)
28. They won't do that this time, unless Kennedy undoes his reasoning in 1992 where he upheld Roe V.
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 01:48 AM
Jun 2015

Wade. I do not see him reversing himself on that.

He signed on the the following:

1. The right of the woman to choose to have an abortion before viability
2. The State may restrict abortions after fetal viability if the law contains exceptions for pregnancies which endanger the woman’s health.
3. The State has legitimate interests from the outset of the pregnancy in protecting the health of the woman and the life of the fetus that may become a child.

It would be very unlikely that Kennedy would rule to overturn Roe. Though he may allow the state of Texas to severely restrict it by this draconian Texas law.

If the court rules to uphold the Texas law, states such a California, New York Massachusetts, etc. will not be affected. That only applies to Texas, and their laws.

However, Texas women will have their lives endangered because of this law

Gloria

(17,663 posts)
25. If you have to cross the river to find access to a back alley abortion, then
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 01:25 AM
Jun 2015

That seems to tell me that the conditions in Tex-ass are creating an undue burden for women.

I really hate these freaks...

And where is public relations arm of the women's groups?..PP would run ads talking about privacy in your bedroom, making men have a stake in this...
When will they use strong language, passion instead of stiff, repetetive fake outrage which is a such a dud?.

For Christ's sake, this is ABUSE....USE THIS TERM, take off the gloves! I wrote letters YEARS ago to PP and NARAL ...crickets....and you see the results now!

still_one

(92,552 posts)
31. I agree with your undue burden reasoning, but I don't blame planned parenthood. They have been
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 02:13 AM
Jun 2015

fighting these draconian, and I would say unConstitutional laws through the court system.

Problem is Texas voted these animals in to their legislature, and now that they have gerrymandered the state, it will be quite difficult to change that until the next census.

During the Abbott election, Wendy Davis made it very clear how women were being hurt by these anti-women law, and she lost. That can only mean that either people didn't vote or the majority of folks in Texas do not care for women's rights. Either way, not a good situation.

I could see a movement to help women who need an abortion in Texas, to help these women cross state lines where there are not legal obstacles.

This issue is just one of many why elections are critical. When some progressives say they won't vote for a particular candidate if they become the party's nominee, they are essentially saying that a women's right to choose is not that important to them, because there is no question that the SC, and who is appointed will determine the outcome, probably sooner than later, especially looking at the age of some of the justices

Gloria

(17,663 posts)
33. Like in most things, no coordination, it seems between
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 02:57 AM
Jun 2015

Like-minded groups. Sure, you're in court..but not one large group has run any parallel "hearts and minds" "reminder" effort?? The anti's are in court PLUS have beating heart billboards up and don't let up.

Women's groups complacent and don't lead in arousing passion or mobilizing support. Where iS NOW and JANE, I remember that movement and have all the info on home-brew abortion, the simple equipment needed.

There is a group that funds abortions...so, why don't these groups form a bloc??

Agree totally that people should not sit on their hands and skip voting...they are stupid if they do and are just helping the GOP. Purity only goes so far...

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
48. Something like this could theoretically be uphed
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 05:43 PM
Jun 2015

while leaving Roe technically on the books. The effect in the real world would be a de facto overruling of Roe because in many states access to abortion services would be nonexistent. A stealth overruling, if you will.

This is a horrible decision, but about what I'd expect from the Fifth Circuit.

still_one

(92,552 posts)
53. I agree it is an awful decision, and you would be correct if they rule for Texas, other states would
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 12:47 AM
Jun 2015

Follow suit, but not all states, but for women in those states there would be no where to turn except traveling to other states or endanger their lives with back alley abortions. It is amazing that it is mostly men that are making decisions about women's bodies, and that is very wrong

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
54. Damn tootin' it is.
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 01:21 AM
Jun 2015

Bodily integrity is as bedrock a right as ever there can be. It really is outrageous in the true dictionary sense of the word.

ismnotwasm

(42,030 posts)
3. So sick of this shit.
Tue Jun 9, 2015, 11:56 PM
Jun 2015

They won't be satisfied until we have uterine forensics to prove abortion for the prison sentence like a country in South America does.

sheshe2

(84,101 posts)
11. This is a fact.
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 12:25 AM
Jun 2015
They won't be satisfied until we have uterine forensics to prove abortion for the prison sentence like a country in South America does.


I am not sure if they just don't give a damn if we die. They sure as hell want power over us. They want us barefoot, pregnant and subservient. Ef them!

Brickbat

(19,339 posts)
44. Where they're required to ask why you're getting an abortion, and two doctors must sign off on it?
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 12:09 PM
Jun 2015

Things are crap all over.

Avalux

(35,015 posts)
6. I don't use the word hate very often, but right now I HATE pro-lifers.
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 12:02 AM
Jun 2015

They've been setting this up for decades. Decades. They're about to win the whole ball of wax because I have no faith the SC will stop this.

prayin4rain

(2,065 posts)
8. I hate that they're the same people who want to cut funding to
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 12:16 AM
Jun 2015

to clothe, feed, educate, provide healthcare, and monitor these children for abuse. They are pro-birth and pro-letting little children starve and be abused once they're born. If they were truly concerned about a fetus feeling pain after 20 weeks, then they'd make sure abortions were cheaply available on every corner so that women could terminate their pregnancy early.

Avalux

(35,015 posts)
9. They don't care what happens after they force women to have babies.
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 12:18 AM
Jun 2015

It has nothing to do with babies - has everything to do with controlling woman and keeping us subservient.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
49. Yep. It is just what George Carlin once said
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 05:45 PM
Jun 2015

"If you're 'pre-born' you're golden. If you're pre-school you're completely fucked."

And you are so right. This has zero to do with babies and everything to do with control.

Horrible, shitty, indefensible decision.

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
50. not just that
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 11:22 PM
Jun 2015

but the fact they want to cut any welfare means that people will have to kiss church ass to exist, which means an army of poorly educated SLAVES for the churches and those they enable.

sheshe2

(84,101 posts)
26. yes I agree.
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 01:26 AM
Jun 2015
I hate that they're the same people who want to cut funding to
to clothe, feed, educate, provide healthcare, and monitor these children for abuse. They are pro-birth and pro-letting little children starve and be abused once they're born.
 

villager

(26,001 posts)
18. They are *not* "pro-life," and we shouldn't let them falsely describe themselves that way
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 12:57 AM
Jun 2015

n/t

brer cat

(24,673 posts)
40. +1
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 09:49 AM
Jun 2015

"Pro-life" needs to be dropped from our vocabulary. It ceased to have any sane meaning decades ago.

sheshe2

(84,101 posts)
17. Our right to chose.
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 12:53 AM
Jun 2015


Roe v. Wade is the historic Supreme Court decision overturning a Texas interpretation of abortion law and making abortion legal in the United States. The Roe v. Wade decision held that a woman, with her doctor, could choose abortion in earlier months of pregnancy without legal restriction, and with restrictions in later months, based on the right to privacy.
Date of the Roe v. Wade decision

January 22, 1973.


Effect of the Roe v. Wade decision:

All state laws limiting women's access to abortions during the first trimester of pregnancy were invalidated by Roe v. Wade. State laws limiting such access during the second trimester were upheld only when the restrictions were for the purpose of protecting the health of the pregnant woman. Roe v. Wade legalized abortion in the United States, which was not legal at all in many states and was limited by law in others.
Basis of the Roe v. Wade decision:

The lower court's decision in this case was that the Ninth Amendment, a part of the Bill of Rights, in stating that "the enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people," protected a person's right to privacy. The Supreme Court chose to base its decision on the Fourteenth Amendment. Roe v. Wade was decided primarily on the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution. A criminal statute that did not take into account the stage of pregnancy or other interests than the life of the mother was deemed a violation of Due Process.

http://womenshistory.about.com/od/abortionuslegal/p/roe_v_wade.htm

SunSeeker

(51,824 posts)
24. "...a panel of three George W. Bush-appointed judges..."
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 01:24 AM
Jun 2015

That explains the ruling, because otherwise it makes no legal or rational sense. It is a result-driven exercise by a bunch of forced-birth zealots appointed by the worst president in the history of these United States.




sheshe2

(84,101 posts)
27. You got it, SunSeeker!
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 01:29 AM
Jun 2015
That explains the ruling, because otherwise it makes no legal or rational sense. It is a result-driven exercise by a bunch of forced-birth zealots appointed by the worst president in the history of these United States.

joshcryer

(62,287 posts)
35. Bush appointed judges have fucked the US for a quarter century.
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 04:10 AM
Jun 2015

At minimum. Fortunately we're past around the halfway mark and they should be retiring in 10 years or so.

jalan48

(13,921 posts)
29. The Republicans are handing Hillary an issue she can win the election on.
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 01:51 AM
Jun 2015

Not that her supporters need energizing but an action like this will fire up women all over the US to elect a woman President of the US.

McCamy Taylor

(19,240 posts)
30. What goes around comes around
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 02:04 AM
Jun 2015

All it will take is one grisly back alley abortion death for the tide to go the other way. The anti-choice groups have always been careful to provide just enough options that no one dies. That will soon change. Tragic that it will take a needless death for the public to wise up yet again.

 

Hulk

(6,699 posts)
32. Thump those bibles, you hypocritical, damned fools.
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 02:40 AM
Jun 2015

So glad I don't live in Texas, and so glad I live thousands of miles away from that stink hole.

joshcryer

(62,287 posts)
34. sheshe2...
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 04:08 AM
Jun 2015

You know what I hate about important threads like this? You have to repeatedly kick them and few others join in to keep them kicked. I feel so bad when threads like this sink and I am unable to kick them (I don't usually kick threads if they're in the top 10-15 threads in GD, but this time I did) when it matters.

Just wanted to thank you and give it a kick. And thank you for kicking my own threads that have sunk before.

Gothmog

(146,031 posts)
36. This is a horrible ruling
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 08:49 AM
Jun 2015

There is now a split between the circuits and so the SCOTUS needs to look at this issue

 

AngryAmish

(25,704 posts)
38. This is a terrible law, but never go to a doctor without admitting priviledges
Wed Jun 10, 2015, 09:09 AM
Jun 2015

It is the lowest bar of medical competancy, ie hospitals screen for bad docs that will get them sued.

If an abortion goes wrong an ambulance will be called and the er doc will admit.

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