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Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 06:29 PM Jun 2015

There is no comparison between transgender people and Rachel Dolezal

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/12/comparison-transgender-people-rachel-dolezal



The way in which people compare how Rachel Dolezal identified as black and then was revealed to be of European descent to how transgender women are “really” men pretending to be women reveals the enormous bigotry that many cisgender people have against trans people, more than anything else about race or gender. Some people are willing to make any negative comparison – no matter how far-fetched – to discredit and shame us trans women.

The fundamental difference between Dolezal’s actions and trans people’s is that her decision to identify as black was an active choice, whereas transgender people’s decision to transition is almost always involuntary. Transitioning is the product of a fundamental aspect of our humanity – gender – being foisted upon us over and over again from the time of our birth in a manner inconsistent with our own experience of our genders. Doctors don’t announce our race or color when we are born; they announce our gender. People who are alienated from their presumed gender and define themselves according to another gender have existed since earliest recorded history;

<snip>



(I am not the author, the article is written in first person. Good read.)
35 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
There is no comparison between transgender people and Rachel Dolezal (Original Post) Starry Messenger Jun 2015 OP
Excellent read ismnotwasm Jun 2015 #1
Twitter has been like this all day, unfortunately. Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #2
And as a side note rock Jun 2015 #26
Good OP... Spazito Jun 2015 #3
Thank you for reading! Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #4
Kick Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #5
"Trans people transition in order to be the gender we feel inside..." beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #6
gawd, there are really people stupid enough to make such a comparison? Skittles Jun 2015 #7
^^^This^^^n/t Gormy Cuss Jun 2015 #8
now I will have to kick my own ass Skittles Jun 2015 #10
Someone here compared her to Brandon Teena. nt geek tragedy Jun 2015 #14
Yep. beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #9
... countryjake Jun 2015 #12
Ikr? beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #13
And now I shall forever give those people JustAnotherGen Jun 2015 #28
Me too. beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #34
Even worse: geek tragedy Jun 2015 #15
Here too: Starry Messenger Jun 2015 #16
Oh, I had my fill in that thread. nt geek tragedy Jun 2015 #17
That one dredged up a post from 2007 JustAnotherGen Jun 2015 #29
Apparently any tragedy is fair game on DU. beam me up scottie Jun 2015 #35
I've seen it here too. nt cwydro Jun 2015 #11
THANK YOU! k & r. nt m-lekktor Jun 2015 #18
I agree treestar Jun 2015 #19
"The fundamental difference ..." JustABozoOnThisBus Jun 2015 #20
Perhaps get their daughter help mythology Jun 2015 #21
Maybe trying to clear their names of some of the horrible lies she told, GGJohn Jun 2015 #22
Because self-identifying as something different from what her parents believed Nye Bevan Jun 2015 #24
I'm talking about her lies about her father being black, GGJohn Jun 2015 #25
What is it acceptable for Tiger Woods to refer to himself as, racially? What would be unacceptable? Nye Bevan Jun 2015 #23
Tiger Woods refers to himself as mixed race Major Nikon Jun 2015 #27
Oh the horror Depaysement Jun 2015 #30
One lied about her background and family. nt geek tragedy Jun 2015 #31
Sure they can, GGJohn Jun 2015 #32
Rec and thank you. nt. LexVegas Jun 2015 #33

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
2. Twitter has been like this all day, unfortunately.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 06:45 PM
Jun 2015

Actually, I'm a little surprised DU wasn't worse, considering. But it is such a spurious comparison.

rock

(13,218 posts)
26. And as a side note
Sat Jun 13, 2015, 11:33 AM
Jun 2015

It's a good example of how critical thinking in the US is not well taught. Which as I like to say is just what the politicians want.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
6. "Trans people transition in order to be the gender we feel inside..."
Sat Jun 13, 2015, 05:09 AM
Jun 2015
The people comparing Dolezal to trans people are depicting our actions as rooted in the same deceptions as hers: her apparent use of skin-darkening agents and products to change the texture of her hair are, implicitly or explicitly, likened to what “men” – to use a trans woman’s example – doing what we do to “deceive” people into thinking we are women. But Dolezal engaged in such actions in order to be perceived as black, in a racialized American environment where that matters. Trans people transition in order to be the gender we feel inside and, while there may come a time when posers will appropriate trendy trans culture for profit, right now, there’s no advantage to transitioning when you’re not trans. Trans people don’t even have the legal protections – like laws that protect access to housing, public accommodation and employment opportunities – that black people and other racial minorities have fought so hard to win.


Thank you for posting this, excellent read.

Comparing Dolezal to trans people is offensive on so many levels.

Skittles

(153,321 posts)
10. now I will have to kick my own ass
Sat Jun 13, 2015, 06:11 AM
Jun 2015

for breaking my own rule about never being surprised at how ignorant conservative assholes really are

on edit - whoa - this was on DU? I'll have to double down on my ass - I guess I should not be surprised at that either

JustAnotherGen

(32,074 posts)
29. That one dredged up a post from 2007
Sat Jun 13, 2015, 11:37 AM
Jun 2015

The other day - I was like - the hay?

Another one - doesn't rub shoulders.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
35. Apparently any tragedy is fair game on DU.
Sat Jun 13, 2015, 06:46 PM
Jun 2015

Making light of the bigotry and violence visited upon a murdered trans woman by comparing her life to that of a liar.



treestar

(82,383 posts)
19. I agree
Sat Jun 13, 2015, 11:07 AM
Jun 2015

I suppose I could be alienated from my ethnic background, but that couldn't be from birth. It would have to do with experience and you have to have lived a while to have that.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,388 posts)
20. "The fundamental difference ..."
Sat Jun 13, 2015, 11:10 AM
Jun 2015

The author's title claims there is no comparison.

Then he proceeds to make a comparison.

Maybe just critique this young lady on the merits of her claims, and the effect those claims have had on her career.

To me, her parents have "outed" her as white, which may cause her to lose her job with the NAACP and her job as a teacher of African Studies at a college. So what are her parents trying to accomplish?


 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
21. Perhaps get their daughter help
Sat Jun 13, 2015, 11:12 AM
Jun 2015

If she's been lying all this time, she's pretty clearly got some issues.

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
22. Maybe trying to clear their names of some of the horrible lies she told,
Sat Jun 13, 2015, 11:13 AM
Jun 2015

let the world know the truth about what a compulsive liar she is?
Maybe get her some psychological help?

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
24. Because self-identifying as something different from what her parents believed
Sat Jun 13, 2015, 11:20 AM
Jun 2015

means that she is a compulsive liar who needs psychological help?

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
25. I'm talking about her lies about her father being black,
Sat Jun 13, 2015, 11:23 AM
Jun 2015

her lie about her brother being her son, her lie about receiving hate mail in the NAACP mail box, her lie about being whipped like a slave by her father, etc.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
23. What is it acceptable for Tiger Woods to refer to himself as, racially? What would be unacceptable?
Sat Jun 13, 2015, 11:18 AM
Jun 2015

(This question is for those who think that it's OK to decide what other people are permitted to describe themselves as).

Major Nikon

(36,828 posts)
27. Tiger Woods refers to himself as mixed race
Sat Jun 13, 2015, 11:35 AM
Jun 2015

Which is what he is. He dislikes people referring to him as African-American because he is mostly not African-American. I don't find that unacceptable.

Depaysement

(1,835 posts)
30. Oh the horror
Sat Jun 13, 2015, 11:41 AM
Jun 2015

A white person identifies as black and works to improve the lives of African-Americans.

A man identifies as a woman and becomes one (or vice versa).

What's wrong with either of these things? Uh, nothing.

Can't people be allowed to be who they really want to be?

GGJohn

(9,951 posts)
32. Sure they can,
Sat Jun 13, 2015, 11:48 AM
Jun 2015

but she lied about her father being black, she lied about her adopted brother being her son, she lied about receiving hate mail in an NAACP mail box, she lied about being whipped like a slave by her real father.
That speaks to her character.

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