however, voter suppression is a very real issue

Voter suppression is a separate issue. I marched with Rep. John Lewis in Columbus to protest voter suppression by SoS Blackwell in Ohio in '04.

unless an insider or programmer comes forward

Bottom line (again): NO elected official, candidate, party chair or campaign manager, ESPECIALLY those who've lost an election, say that vote switching occurred.

After this, media stopped doing exit polls.

John Kerry asked for money for lawyers to fight up until the night before the election, then after everything that happened, he didn't even fight.

Just because our elected officials participate in a dog and pony show doesn't mean we should trust them and just enjoy the show.

...to change the result.

That is so ridiculous I don't know what to say.

The exit polls were the exact opposite of election results- How big of a red flag do people need?

http://www.isthmus.com/news/news/karl-rove-case-witness-killed-in-plane-crash-sisters-want-answers/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1290765&mesg_id=1290765

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1292142&mesg_id=1292142


The fraud was really obvious, a movement of activists demanded action. Conyers stepped up with a hearing and Bernie Sanders attended and spoke to say it wasn't really stolen.

He was not supporting the movement of election fraud activists at the time, it was very frustrating.

that there was no fraud and therefore no legit reason for these increased voter suppression tactics (ID rules, voter purges...) which prevent a lot of people from voting.

Its not rocket science to see what is going on with this issue. Always if the 'CONs are for it, whatever 'it' is, look for the man behind the curtains cause thats where you will find the truth

by voters.

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/10/08/bernie-sanders-busts-republican-fraud-voter-id-laws-report.html

Bernie Sanders] It is not my view that Kerry ended up winning this election so I am not particularly sympathetic about going over that issue again.

Last edited Wed Jun 17, 2015, 12:34 AM - Edit history (2)

Nor the view of Kerry's expensive campaign experts.

Please excuse Sanders for believing the candidate, who was his colleague in the Senate Democratic Caucus, instead of a bunch of speculating pundits who have to fill column inches and message board conspiracy theorists.

And, btw, saying Kerry did not lose that election is not the same as saying "I don't believe election fraud exists," which is the false claim of your OP.

As far as having the wrong year, wrong election, look at all the replies trying to guess what the hell your OP was referring to. We're not mind readers. Be more specific next time. And a link or two wouldn't hurt, either.

As far as 2004 being before Republicans came up with with claims of voter fraud, you're mistaken. Republicans have been crying voter fraud for a long time.

You are fabricating this nonsense, or you would have a link to back up your assertion.

Nice try. I give it a 4/10 for effort, but I can't score it any higher.

I just don't want to get my hopes up if he is going to act like John Kerry all over again

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026026313

The attempted smears seem to be getting more out-there.

to vote and the problem of voting on machines without an verifiable paper trail.

He spoke at the hearing with the assumption that Bush won the election.

The election results were the exact opposite of the exit polls, which every country including ours used as a canary in the coal mine.
(After the exit polls exposed the election fraud, they stopped doing exit polls)

People were irate, and rightfully so.

How was his behavior being open minded and doing his job?

If you see fraud, you do something about it, not sweep it under the carpet.

problems with our voting system. You deliberately mischaracterized what he said. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Were you watching that election?

Did you see what they did to the people of Ohio?

And then for Bernie to pretend it wasn't in an effort to steal it? WTF!

He did not help in that hearing, he got in the way and took up a lot of time not helping.


I am still really fucking pissed off from the 2000 election,then 2004 more Bush, more war---after stealing it- we should all still be angry.

But then, we got Obama and more war.

I am so freaking tired of our country using all our time, intelligence and resources to kill people.

We are running around like we are the greatest democracy, while Republicans control our elections with voting machines and their stupid ass 'liberal' media.


Whatever people. This is the exact reason I have been ignoring national politics.

There is no hope because people have no memories.

Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.

fucking pointless to hang it on Bernie.

If Bernie doesn't believe they are stealing elections, when they tell us Jeb won (or Hillary won the primaries), he will believe it and we will be stuck...again...

I want electronic voting machines and the electronic counting of paper ballots to be in the public's attention, now, before the election, so that something will actually be done so we have a fair election.

I want to see everyone get behind him because millions of Americans know our elections have been stolen...

and then I want Hillary to pathetically have to admit that she might believe that as well.

Seriously, the greatest democracy on earth having our votes counted by private software owned by Republicans.

Just how stupid are we?

Stop with the dishonest smearing because it's disgusting.

It doesn't show an overall. But it shows him winning males 52-47 and splitting the female vote 50-50.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/OH/P/00/epolls.0.html

Interviewing for the 2004 exit polls was the most inaccurate of any in the past five presidential elections as procedural problems compounded by the refusal of large numbers of Republican voters to be surveyed led to inflated estimates of support for John F. Kerry, according to a report released yesterday by the research firms responsible for the flawed surveys.

The exit pollsters emphasized that the flaws did not produce a single incorrect projection of the winner in a state on election night. But "there were 26 states in which the estimates produced by the exit poll data overstated the vote for John Kerry . . . and there were four states in which the exit poll estimates overstated the vote for George W. Bush," said Joe Lenski of Edison Media Research and Warren Mitofsky of Mitofsky International.

Throughout election night, the national exit poll showed the Massachusetts senator leading President Bush by 51 percent to 48 percent. But when all the votes were counted, it was Bush who won by slightly less than three percentage points. Larger discrepancies between the exit poll estimates and the actual vote were found in exit polls conducted in several states.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22188-2005Jan19.html?nav=rss_politics/elections/2004

http://www.c-span.org/video/?185005-2/debate-ohio-electoral-vote-objection

You can scroll down the list of speakers to get to Bernie's floor speech.

We've seen this kind of dishonest crap before.

Thanks for posting the truth, smokey.

[Thom Hartmann] Yeah. I, the problem in my mind, over and over again, is that there is no evidence that George Bush won - that's not to say he didn't - but there's no evidence that he did because we had privatized the vote.

[Bernie Sanders] Well that's right. And that's got to stop. And that's...

[Thom Hartmann] Of all the things to privatize!

[Bernie Sanders] Yeah. And that would be true no matter who won.

[Thom Hartmann] Yeah.

[Bernie Sanders] Given the voting machines that exist, right?

[Thom Hartmann] Yeah, yeah, and this...

[Bernie Sanders] I think that's an issue that we do have to focus on and again, in the year 2004 how could it be, with all of the technology out there that people in Florida, people in Ohio, people elsewhere were waiting hours and hours to vote. That's insane and totally irresponsible and has to be dealt with.

[Thom Hartmann] And how can it be that Diebold says that they don't want to or, you know, they don't make voting machines that produce receipts but they make ATMs and Ticketron machines.

[Bernie Sanders] Absolutely. A total nonsense. And the whole issue of the so-called intellectual property rights for the functioning of these machines to rest in private hands is totally unacceptable.


So when exit polls were exact opposite of election results, and these machines were in place....how can he assume Bush won?

Get back when you find the speech. If indeed Bernie took to the floor it will be in the Congressional Record available from the Library Of congress.

http://www.c-span.org/video/?185005-2/debate-ohio-electoral-vote-objection

Scroll down the list of speakers to hear Bernie.

You'll of course, provide us with an objective and relevant source which verifies your allegation that he told everyone to shut up, yes?

http://www.c-span.org/video/?185005-2/debate-ohio-electoral-vote-objection

Scroll down the list of speakers to get to Bernie's floor speech.

It will take hours to download though.

I remember watching it at the time though, and reading what he said about it, he did not believe the election was stolen.

Knowing all he did about the machines, the purposeful disinfranchisement..how could he think they weren't trying to steal it?

How did he know they weren't successful?

Bernie's speech. It was nothing like you characterized in your OP. John Kerry didn't think the election was stolen, so Bernie's feelings on the matter wouldn't have changed anything.

Bernie is against. As to real voter fraud - such as happened in the presidential election of 2000 no one has done anything about that. Over half of the country would tell you that it did not happen.

'Voter fraud' is as is suggests fraud committed by voters, election fraud is committed by organized parties, defrauding the electorate of a fair election.

Election fraud is not the same thing as voter fraud and that's what Bernie was dismissing. it is NOT what you claim it is. It's a lying repuke tactic to impose legal obstacles to put in the way of minority voters, elderly voters, the young and others:

The Government Accountability Office report also found scant evidence of voter fraud that the new laws that ostensibly are designed to discourage.

The report was requested by Sens. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.), Richard Durbin (D-Ill.), Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) and Bill Nelson (D-Fla.). The senators asked the research arm of Congress to investigate what they called an “alarming number” of new state laws that make it “significantly harder” for millions of voters to cast ballots.

<snip>

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/10/08/bernie-sanders-busts-republican-fraud-voter-id-laws-report.html

http://www.c-span.org/video/?185005-2/debate-ohio-electoral-vote-objection

If you scroll down the list of speakers, you can go right to Bernie's part. He spoke for about a minute or two.

now there's no doubt about what the op was trying to do.

I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and just attribute your op to ignorance until I noted that you haven't responded to all the posts correcting you.

Why don't you explain how Sanders could know about the voting machines, know about the exit polls being opposite of results...

then say the election results were not affected?

How could he know that?

His job was to investigate, not dismiss.

.....but it was truly a very weak attempt. Sorry, better luck with your next smear attempt.

of manipulation of voting by corruption of the voting process (especially through electronic voting machines) with the fake issue of "voter fraud," which the Republicans have been using as a false pretext to curtail access to voting by groups they know will vote Democratic.

These are two very different things. Sanders remarks were directed at the false issue of "voter fraud."

J_J_ should respond to the replies he/she has received regarding this misleading post.

Criminy, was just trying to get people talking- hoping we could really get Bernie elected

So maybe he just needs to be educated on the subject?

On Tue Jun 16, 2015, 12:44 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

I love everything Bernie Sanders is doing/saying....but he doesn't believe in election fraud
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026845959

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Hit-and-run with made-up talking point.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Jun 16, 2015, 01:08 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Hide. This OP is nonsense.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This post is not rude, insensitive, etc. Poster brings up legitimate points.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I really don't see anything wrong with this post that would lead me to vote to hide. Perhaps the alerter is just angry the post is critical of Bernie? Are we reaching the point where any post critical of Saint Bernard should be hidden?
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I am a Bernie supporter and I think this is fair criticism.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Go ahead and refute it. It's a discussion board.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

74-year-old guy is sticking his neck out and breaking his ass in pieces for you, but he's not touching every little button just right. Kee-rist.

Typical of this poster, actually.

Anything?



I remember the GOP was busy.

Sanders said this:


I think that's an issue that we do have to focus on and again, in the year 2004 how could it be, with all of the technology out there that people in Florida, people in Ohio, people elsewhere were waiting hours and hours to vote. That's insane and totally irresponsible and has to be dealt with.

And the whole issue of the so-called intellectual property rights for the functioning of these machines to rest in private hands is totally unacceptable.


Just in case...We could make sure that he does focus on election issues so we can all vote knowing it actually matters....or we could all shoot the messenger and live in denial.

The quote you use in the post Im responding to, demonstrates the dishonest slant in your pathetic op. It was a smear.

We don't even have to hold his feet to the fire because he's so strong on the issue. It does have me curious though about what HRC has said about voting machine integrity.

Now that I have hope, I want to win this.

I really believe that America is behind everything he says and he could really win this thing!

There is no hope with Hillary, my Gawd, the whole Bush-Clinton thing makes me want to hide in a hole.
Just how low does this country have to go?

What would be awesome is if Bernie Sanders started talking about electronic voting machines and our faulty elections.

Then Hillary would have to pretend she cares as well.

And then the next thing you know, the whole country is talking about how fucked up our elections are, we switch to paper ballots hand counted and posted at the precinct level, Bernie actually wins the election and our country starts caring and working for Americans again.

lie I told. Totally awesome! Bra!

County Commissioner as a republican voted in Texas and Pennsylvania in the same election. His excuse was he had a home in both states and thought he could vote in both.


http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Candidate-voted-twice-in-same-elections-records-3937458.php

Your objection seems to be that exit polls must be right; if there's a discrepancy, then you assume machine fraud. That Sanders did call for a paper trail doesn't seem to change your mind.

Do you start threads about Senator Clinton not declaring there was electoral fraud in Ohio? Or Senators Biden and Obama?

The "to shut everyone up on the subject" is the part you need to demonstrate is true.

I'm sure Bernie Sanders knows this much: How Kerry Votes Were Switched To Bush Votes

But there is also a lot of smokescreen and coverup going on that merits being ignored, not the least of which is the Republican "voter fraud" ruse being used for suppression of legitimate voters.

Remember those days? Bring 'em back!