He's blatantly a white supremacist.

There's no "mentally ill" card to be played on this one.

This guy will have all sorts of disgusting mental baggage.. Watch and See...His procurement of the guns will however be a huge part of this sad story..

A birthday gift from his father.

Much is already known. No mental illness card to play, just a cold and calculating terrorist.

Why can't terrorists be mentally deranged? They obviously are.

What the media reports is a different story, of course.

Kicking off a race war is exactly it.

There is a homeless asshole by my office who screams racist and other offensive nonsense for hours until he has enough Wild Irish Rose in him to pass out and get tossed into an ambulance.

It seems psychiatric drugs are a common thread in a large majority of these mass murders.

SSRI's didn't sew on the Apartheid patch, regardless.

looks like I was too late.

I fucking knew someone would jump to the "it was SSRIs!!" bullshit, even before the bodies were cold.



Sid

Like fucking clockwork.

Sid

The pharmaceutical industry makes far too much money from SSRIs.

Another one for the record books. There are plenty of us on SSRI's who have no urge whatsoever to ever harm anyone. I certainly have never gotten the urge to go commit a hate crime before them or since being on them about 10 years now.

is right.

about the medications that Lanza was supposedly taking.

It's no surprise that the same "theories" are coming out again, after this latest shooting.

Sid

I also remember pointing out then that most of us who take SSRIs do so with no urge to go out and commit mass murder. They never listen.

that and apparently white supremecist BS

Adam Lanza was a seriously disturbed young man who needed mental health care.

Dylann Roof is a white supremacist.

Thank God.

Guaranteed Roof’s back story will be filled with mental illness..For me, just another very sick man trying to make a name for himself and had a very easy time finding the and procuring the tools he needed.!

just a couple months ago.

Just had to say it. Another example is abortion clinic bombings, which hardly get attention...

On different sites I've already seen:

'This is why I always carry, even to church'
'This is a wonderful argument in favor of concealed carry'
'Why didn't the church have armed security'

The same shit we heard with the Lanza Tragedy!

...with any shooting casualties in unarmed churches being deemed essentially the fault of the victims?

Might as well cut to the chase on this. The "Blame The Victims" spewing from gun militants is already thick enough to walk on.

The "Blame the victims spew" is not from me, but is someone elses Narrative. What a church and its members want to do vis a vis guns is up to them and the laws of the state.

Unless others want to deny that right pro forma. So, what's your stance, chase not withstanding?

For crying out loud.

What puzzles me is why you would deny the option of self-defense. Anywhere.

I'm puzzled as to why anyone thinks more guns is the answer.

More guns or less guns isn't the question. The question is the utter impracticality of preventing some fuck-up from doing this by posting a sign or passing a law.

I prefer that this church, other places of worship, schools, etc. have the Choice, the Option to act in self-defense. If they choose not to avail themselves of arms, so be it. But I damn well won't subject them -- by Law -- to the rather meaningless exhortations to disarm. THAT is their choice.

But it's a pretty damn sick society when you are expected to carry at church.

Plenty of people here will be happy to scream "SECOND AMENDMENT! SECOND AMENDMENT! SECOND AMENDMENT!" like Vikings in a Python skit.

Just sit back and just discuss how this could have been prevented.. More Security, An armed guard...and just a ton more of bullshit, w/o ever discussing the real issue.. The simplicity of acquiring guns..

Whom did race kill? (the deaths, I believe being the "real issue&quot .

Guns kill people.

who think Militia is a term relevant in this discussion..This is a sick freaking kid who gets his jollies off by thinking of revenge scenarios.and is sick enough to carry them through... Adam Fucking Lanza, who was surrounded by an excess of guns.. Stop saying this a freaking hate issue.. Its a crazed nut issue who was able to get his hand on a gun..Think he could have pulled this tragedy off w/o a gun?

You are on the wrong path, here, regarding your narrow "crazed nut with a gun" view. You would be challenged to find Anyone who has no mental affliction of some sort. This crud bag appears to be a product of racial indoctrination. It would be wiser to find out where that comes from, rather than post another diatribe about guns.

You know why Birmingham was nicknamed Bombingham some 60 years ago? That's how it is "pulled off."

We’ll wait and see.. But is obvious that you don’t think easy access to arms by these idiots is not a problem...Let’s see how can we take the conversation away from the millions of guns that are scattered all over this country, with very few legal restrictions on buying and selling.

But that issues just is not worth mentioning to you..Is it..

a lot easier for them fulfill their intended goals. I ask you does it not

Racism coupled with a gun. It takes a gun or guns to have a mass shooting. How about no guns in church. No guns, no shooting up churches.

It doesn't take any guns to have a mass bombing, as happened to the Birmingham church during the 50s.

Do you want to deny worshippers the right to arms themselves while in church?

I prefer letting them decide that, rather than pro forma denying that choice.

I'm willing to bet the thug who shot those people knew full well he would have no resistance. Reports say some worshippers tried to talk him out of it, perhaps their only option?

Your dumb argument that if racists didn’t have guns, they could and would use bombs, fires, and ropes is so fucking stupid.....Perhaps your father brought you up responsibly, took you hunting and taught you how to respect guns..Over 30,000 people die each year from guns. 30 fucking thousand! are you possibly stating that if guns were not an option (banned) that these same 30,000 would died by fire, bombs, nooses, knives etc.. Give me a break..

You should know the facts. 30k deaths-by-gun include 20k suicides. Do you in your outraged mind believe these folks would NOT find an alternative means? Japan has a higher rate of suicides than the U.S., yet guns are as common there as a cold Pepsi on the Plain of Jars. Think: Tall buildings, overdoses.

And you should know if you keep up, terrorists, racists and thrill killers Will find other means. And have. Birmingham was called Bombingham for a reason in the late 50s/early 60s.

You give too little malignant credit to the "creativity" of terrorists, and to the violent nature of our culture. Sheesh.

If there had been no guns in that church, there could not have been any shootings. More guns would have led to more shooting and possibly more dead. More guns obviously isn't the answer. We've been trying that. It just keeps happening. Trying the same thing over and over again expecting different results. Less guns or preferably no guns in crowded public places would be a better idea. In order for there to be shootings, there have to be guns. It is not too much to ask people not to carry guns to a church or other crowded place. It's just not smart.

That kind of deflection will probably get you through it, yet another time. But it won't work forever. One of these days, you pro-gun types are going to have to come to the table and do some hard trading. Second Amendment or not, most of us don't want a nation which is reduced to having its schools and churches and offices and shopping malls tricked out as armed fortresses. And we sure as hell don't want to adopt the dark thinking that supports that sort of universal arming up. It's called the establishment and maintenance of a civilized society.

I'm tired of giving in to the Bad Guys. And I'm sick to death of the political forces that invariably carry the Bad Guys' water. It won't happen this time. Or the next 20 times. But one of these days, people will have had enough of the gun situation in this country. Count on it.

Doesn't it strike you as odd that DU -- so bound up with racism, posts about racism, white privilege, and white male pathologies, every day! -- when faced with a neon-lit act of racial violence responds with the usual gun OPs?

Not to worry---even Obama looked resigned to untrammeled gun usage in this country when he spoke yesterday. Congrats on what your movement has accomplished. Hope you're proud of it.

Many here want to get down to talking about the kind of racism which is emerging; is it a new form, is it organized, is it enabled by the drumbeat of RW media, will it repeat itself and how?

Focusing on the instant means, and how to prohibit the means, just doesn't cut it. You want the focus to remain on guns. Clearly, not everyone agrees with your approach. So no, the deflection from discussing and acting on racism is not MY doing.

Both situations need to be addressed.

If the racist had thrown a bomb into the church with the same result, would you be talking about race hatred being increasingly legitimized in this culture, or about the arcane regulation of TNT and how the NRA thwarted it?

King's church was bombed in c1956. His colleagues fully armed themselves thereafter.

There will probably always be violent racists. It's when violent racists can easily get a gun that tragedies like this occur.

Yea, the NRA probably issued the All Men On Deck command as soon as they heard the word “Church"

Don't they understand that mass murders are not a time for reflection of what's wrong with our society!

many civil rights workers, esp. those around King, were heavily armed.

A problem like racism will not be remotely addressed by some prohibitionist scheme. You know that. But some must serve their doctrines, fears and animosities with lesser issues while ignoring what I THOUGHT was such a big issue in GD: Racism.

Let's not pretend we have problems with guns and race in this country. Just stay the course.

If guns were outlawed tomorrow, would racism end? Would racists shun any other violent mean to kill? MLK's house was BOMBED. One of over 60 bombings in "Bombingham" during the late 50s/early 60s.

incidents.

And of course outlawing guns wouldn't end racism. It would save 10,000+ lives a year, though. We wouldn't even need to outlaw them. Just stick handguns and semi-auto rifles into NFA. You think this kid's dad would have gotten his son a handgun on his 21st birthday if both of them had to go through NFA background check and registration?

As bombings and lynching by rope have proven. Ridding the nation of handguns is a pipedream on the scale of banning pot and 3D printers.

I favor universal Background checks. But this is unlikely in the near future due to the sweeping prohibitionist measures routinely advocated by gun controllers. Which is why I do not support registration: Some prohibitionists don't know when to stop.

If handguns were NFA'd thousands, likely tens of thousands of lives would be saved easy years. Yes, it's a pipe dream. That's thanks to people like you, who place more value on easy access to guns than to thousands of innocent lives lost.

Pointing out that you care more about easy access to guns than gun violence is simply a fact. There are tradeoffs. We can have easy access to guns, or we can have gun violence and homicide rates in line with the rest of the first world.

You prefer the guns. And there's enough people like you so that, like you said, NFAing handguns is a pipe dream.

the type of gun used, looking for celebrity, etc., I get a little put out when folks drive by the flashing sign "Racism Just Ahead" and bitching about the glare.

I've already seen lots of talk about how this incident is a good argument in favor of more guns in more hands, because the 'good guy with a gun' would've surely stopped Roof. It goes both ways, though I have an easier time believing that this wouldn't have happened, had he not had access to a gun, rather than that this wouldn't have happened, if by chance someone else at church would've been armed as well.

and say he was on drugs and did not know what he was doing?

Seems to me his lawyer could claim a number of diagnoses that are durable rather than temporary.

The apartheid flag patch on his jacket, and the Confederate State of America license plate on his car are early indicators that this was as racially motivated slaughter. More will come to light soon enough.

Puts a spot on this reply.. Doesn’t it?

making their darkness become reality.. Don’t ya think?

You think their guns are used for hunting...? My ass..Their polished and ready to go for any thugs who might be near their personal property..

If he didn't have a gun he would have used a bomb -




Today was a day where if you are white - and I didn't already know you -

I didn't smile at you.

This was the day I began to hate America. I didn't hear about this util 4 am.

And here it comes - the blah blah about his crazy. He was a bigot before he was crazy. Gun, machete, knife, gas chamber, bomb, etc etc he was going to do that come hell or high water.

God damn America!

There's a new "Doom" coming out. We could blame that, I suppose.

The NRA: The best PR that gun corporations can buy (literally).

are the blame?

It's sad that, Everytime a tragedy happens, the NRA PR tools come on the news and act like guns are their special snowflakes being unfairly picked on.

Lanza did not wear anti-school children patches. Lanza was a failure of our broken mental health system. Roof is a failure of our social system that quietly tolerates the delusional view that there is something to hate or fear about people with darker skin.

On edit: Both show the consequences of our failure to control guns. So, yeah, alike in that way.

of the easy accessibility these haters have to guns..???

Thats your sentiments correct?

in both cases. Neither the mentally ill, nor the racists should have access to guns.

when he recognized the photo. "Family cooperating with Police". His sister's son. He was the person who told police that the gun was given as 21st Birthday present. Attempt to get the young man to come out of his shell and room? He described his nephew as jobless "introvert" who stayed in his room on the Internet all the time. Sound familiar, including the part about a PARENT encouraging gun usage for a "troubled/introverted" 20 something year old son?

Cannot see the similarities to Lanza? Only the place of the shooting changed.

I hope we find out what he was doing on the internet. I can guess looking at white supremacy and gun porn sites.

no sirree bob!

kudos for daddy buying him a gun. can daddy be charged as well?

Not sure, but doubt that. Problem here? If a family member gifts a gun to a adult family member in many states, there is no background check of the recipient. That is an "honor system" for family to not gift a gun to a family member, not simply for felonies, but "mental health" issues as well.

mental health institutions..

Adam was clearly lost in the system that refuses to care until they must pretend they do using the horrific murders of children as a reason to pretend they do care ..

The fact that several years later, the issue still gets ignored until times like this one is telling....

Religion, racism, greed, hate, fear, anger at self perceived injustices for those more easily swayed will easily find a target to blame that seems exceptable, it's a human sickness I see exposed, ones surroundings aiding in its horrific outcome...

This kid was a product packaged and delivered for one purpose and he was too weak and selfish to fight that pull of blaming others for his own problems in a society that far too many find such behavior exceptable....his victims did not stand a chance, hate radio and its benefactors need to be shut down if this is ever to change...

are mentally ill, wanted to start a race war and admitted it was about race.

We as a society need to realize there are monsters in our midst. Some are even good looking, like the kid next door...who have absorbed and internalized white supremacy.

Your post excuses that.

Easy to influence by what he hears and reads in todays media world of hate 'others'.

Time to cut off the 'I'm a smartass' haircut.

Mental illness is being used to excuse this guy's racism and white supremacist views.

Blame everything and anything but the damn perp. That's unacceptable to me.