General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsLet's try not to forget to see the forest through the Confederate Flags.
Following the Charleston massacre, all the attention has turned to the issue of removing the Confederate Flag from the grounds of the South Carolina capitol building.
Which is fine. It doesn't deserve to be there. The Confederate Flag has its place, and that place are Civil War history museums and battlefields, because that flag ought to merely be a 150 year old historical artifact, no more and no less.
But why are politicians and the media so hung up only about the Confederate Flag and nothing else? It seems to be they are ignoring the glaring elephants in the room here. The fact that in this supposedly "post racial" society, a 21 year old could be consumed by so much racial hate and violence. The fact that yet again we are confronted by another deadly mass shooting in this country, and it appears that not even 20 dead first graders could teach this country a lesson.
It seems to me that politicians left and right are more than happy to offer up the Confederate Flag as a sacrifice if it means they get to ignore the deeper issues of racial hatred and gun violence in this country.
Let's not make the removal of a flag be the end-all, be-all in this national conversation.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)edhopper
(33,667 posts)that the South fought for a noble cause that deserves to be honored. That it wasn't a treasonous, racist regime. Flying the flag means that history is to be saluted.
Taking down the flag is the start of talking about what the Civil War really was and opposing the
glorious heritage" bullshit prevalent in the South.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,235 posts)But I fear that people are going to basically walk away from the deeper issues surrounding this tragedy the moment the flag comes down.
edhopper
(33,667 posts)I was explaining how I hope it is a start as well.
And yes Southern racists (ie, the GOP) will try to say it's done, why keep talking about it.
blm
(113,140 posts)in state legislatures across the country.
Roof's mindset is no different than most RW 'news' outlets and some aspect of their shared racism can be found daily in the commentary and in the readers' comment sections.
Lindsay
(3,276 posts)Get everybody focused on that tiny sliver of the picture, and ignore the rest.
Or "We must have this national conversation," until everyone's had their say and nothing changes that the powers-that-be don't want to change.
Igel
(35,390 posts)Who is making it a big deal?
It was made a big deal for Haley, not by Haley. Her contribution and that of others was just saying "no" to demands--and the demands kept getting louder and louder precisely by those who viewed it as such a big deal. Otherwise it would have been a back-grounded status quo, not something that nearly serves to displace Roof's actions and motives from the center of attention.
No demands, no big deal.
Yes, that suddenly shifts the responsibility to the 'wrong' side. Sorry. It also shifts the attention away from one problem to one that people feel comfortable with, and one that they so long to win to show that they have power to coerce and compel. For some, that's the only power that matters.
Remove racism from hearts and minds and find a common interpretation of history that isn't two-way lop-sided. The first is the goal; the second is required for a single society instead of two parallel-play separate societies. Then either the Confederate flag will all but vanish from public view or it will stop being a problem because each side shows good-will respect for alternative interpretations of a brightly colored piece of cloth.
apnu
(8,760 posts)Well, actually, it is easy to talk about racism, but the media hasn't figured that out.
For all the bitching and moaning conservatives make about "PC" and the "nanny state" and generally whining about the "wussification" we on the left bring to the world, they are the ones who bellow the loudest when talking about stuff that affects them. This means racism. The merest hint of an actual conversation about racism will get their panties in a wad instantly.
Its not us on the left that's censoring America, its conservatives.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,235 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)Video should be online by now. One of his guests said he did not want a rush to cumbaya. I think he's correct.
Baitball Blogger
(46,785 posts)they can cherry pick which laws they want to obey, and which laws they can bandy with other like minds to skirt around.
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)In fact, in a lot of ways they've gotten worse. In 2013 Republicans de-funded the Sonja Haynes Center for Black Culture and History and the Center for Social Change, engaged in voter suppression in minority districts among other things. This reminds me of when President Obama was first elected. 'We live in a post racial society" and We elected a Black president so racism must be over rhetoric. All of these things are progress. but we still have a long way to go.
bigtree
(86,023 posts)...but, to be fair, all of our Democratic candidates (and other Democrats, as well) are including observations on racism very much like your own along with their calls for the removal.
I don't think it's accurate that both 'left and right' are willing to sacrifice the flag and just "ignore the deeper issues of racial hatred and gun violence"
Martin O'Malley speaks out about stronger gun laws, Confederate flag removal, and 'White Racism'
BaltSun:
"I heard some elected officials say this week, 'laws can't change this,'" O'Malley told the group in San Francisco.
"Actually, they can," he said. "How many senseless acts of violence do we have to endure as a people before we stand up to the congressional lobbyists of the NRA?"
If the families of Charleston can forgive, can let go of their anger, is it really too much to ask the state government officials of South Carolina to retire the Confederate flag to a museum?" he said.
WBAL:
"We come together in a sad week in the life of our country, don't we," said O'Malley, a candidate for President. "Another senseless gun massacre in America. "Newtown, Aurora, Washington Naval Yard, and now Charleston. The entire world must think us mad, sending trillions to Afghanistan and Iraq while the casualties pile up here in our own cities and towns".
"The most poisonous force in American politics today is not bad people who do bad things, it is good people who do nothing," said O'Malley. "The shrug of the shoulders, the resignation that somehow this is the best we can do".
"One of the sad triumphs of white racism is the degree to which it has succeeded in subconsciously convincing so many of us, black and white, that somehow black lives don't matter," said O'Malley.
"What a terribly jarring and callous sight then, in the wake of this racist massacre, to see the American flag at half-staff, while above it at full staff over the state Capitol of South Carolina flew a Confederate flag."
Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vermont, described the flag as a "relic of our nation's stained racial history" when calling for its removal.
Sanders: Charleston Shooting Reminder Of 'Ugly Stain Of Racism' In US
Presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) on Thursday condemned the shooting at a historically black church in Charleston, S.C. as a "tragic reminder of the ugly stain of racism" tainting America.
"This senseless violence fills me with outrage, disgust and a deep, deep sadness," Sanders tweeted.
In a longer statement, the Democratic presidential contender said the killings, which were blamed on a white suspect whose victims included state Sen. Clementa Pinckney (D), showed that the U.S. had a long way to go in escaping its history of racial violence.
"The hateful killing of nine people praying inside a church is a horrific reminder that, while we have made significant progress in advancing civil rights in this country, we are far from eradicating racism," he said.
Hillary Clinton weighed in on the South Carolina confederate flag debate back in 2007 and still holds the view that it should be removed.
"I think about how many South Carolinians have served in our military and who are serving today under our flag and I believe that we should have one flag that we all pay honor to, as I know that most people in South Carolina do every single day," Clinton told The Associated Press in an interview.
"I personally would like to see it removed from the Statehouse grounds," the New York senator said
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/02/19/sen-clinton-south-carolina-should-remove-confederate-flag-from-statehouse.html
Hillary Clinton decries 'institutional racism' after Charleston shooting
Issuing an emotional plea following the South Carolina church shooting, Hillary Rodham Clinton called for "common-sense" gun reforms and a national reckoning with the persistent problem of "institutional racism."
Clinton's remarks also marked a forceful entry into the heated topic of race relations, an issue that's become a major theme of her campaign. Clinton called race a "deep fault line" in America, noting that "millions of people of color still experience racism in their everyday lives."
The problem of racism was not limited to "kooks and klansman," she said, but included the off-hand, off-color joke; whites scared of young black men and not speaking up against poverty and discrimination.
"We can't hide from any of these hard truths about race and justice in America," she said. "We have to name them and then own them and then change them."