Its now a government of, by, and for the rich and giant corps.

The fact that corporations can tell us what our labor laws should be, what our pollution policies should be, and more, because their precious profits might be encumbered in any way is a disgrace and a tragedy.

We need to curtail the power of corporations now but I have little hope that anything will happen. They write the checks to our politicians.

product safety standards will be gone, more or less ANY regulation at any level can be made to disappear by the TPP tribunals if the corps want to challenge them. And you know they will challenge every one. And the first challengers will be the fossil fuel megagiants, to stop any meaningful response to climate change. World domination absent war is the end game, and we are now seeing the beginning of the end. Profits over everything, even the future of the human race.

Capitalism will fall. It has already sown the seeds of its own inevitable destruction. The only remaining question is whether it will make the earth largely uninhabitable before it topples over and smashes itself to bits.

We could have been a pretty good species. We produced Confucius, Gautama Buddha, Shakespeare, Sophocles and Aristotle, da Vinci, Michelangelo, Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Newton, Einstein, and Hawking, Gandhi, King and Mandela, so clearly there was something to build on. But we let the systems we built be overcome by rapacious avarice and imbecile superstition.

"Suicide by greed and superstition" will be the epitaph of the human race.

Kick and rec!

It's up to somebody outside Washington - clean up on isle 3rd way...

Thank you!

I have been informed downthread that this is all hyperbolic bullshit.

Now I am confused.






NOT

sums up that prospect in a nutshell.

Better Grease It, It's Gonna Hurt.

for like 5 years ?? even after it passes? how is this possible?

all the more reason to put every progressive egg in Bernie's basket,
and elect him to the WH asap.

IOW the ones that most fuck and destroy the Middle Class. are Ultra-Top-Double-Super Secret for five years.

And national, state and local laws can now be struck down by panels of corporate-owned and appointed attorneys whose proceedings are not open to the public, and IIRC, may be conducted in ex parte fashion. A Corporate Star Chamber, to put it bluntly.

Where does it say that it will remain a secret?

(I am trying to do a few things right now) I am not seeing that part.

Some more horrorshow from the TPP

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dave-johnson/now-we-know-why-huge-tpp_b_6956540.html

http://billmoyers.com/2013/11/14/top-secret-trade-deal-wikileaked-it-is-what-we-expected/

http://www.citizen.org/TPP

Secrecy specific articles:

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111018/05561916398/out-acta-ing-acta-all-tpp-negotiating-documents-to-be-kept-secret-until-four-years-after-ratification.shtml

http://www.thedailycall.org/?p=75157

Certain parts WILL remain secret for four years after the deal is enacted.

What parts are going to remain secret?

The tech dirt article is talking about TPP negotiating documents. (they should be out in the open) but it doesn't quite comport worth what another DU'r said that that parts of the TPP would remain secret.

I believe I read the negotiating documents (i.e., the drafts that would track the evolution of individual parties' negotiating positions) would be classified for 4 or 5 years (I don't remember) after enactment. But the entire agreement would be made public upon submission to Congress.

{Disclaimer: NO, DU ... This is not my taking a position on the merits/detriments of any agreement.}

That is, if true, a lot different than what I am trying find out.

Still looking for more links, but I really appreciate this input.

Stil not seeing what was claimed. What you are saying makes more sense. To be honest isn't seeing negotiating documents outside of the norm on any legislation?

IIRC, DUer Hoyt posted links to stuff that refuted that claim ... the last 5 times it was brought up.

I will look for it.

public 60 day before Congress takes it up.

This June 23, 2015 NYT article describes it a bit differently, but to the same effect I think:

Under the trade promotion bill [TPA], such accords could not be considered by Congress for four months after completion, and for two of those months, the agreements would have to be made accessible to the public. The bill adds dozens of negotiating objectives requested by lawmakers, who still could vote down any deal struck.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/24/us/politics/senate-vote-on-trade-bill.html?_r=0


As to the negotiating documents. You can actually find them on the internet at various sites, including WikiLeaks. The front page, depending upon what chapter you are looking at, usually says something to the effect: "Declassify on: Four years from entry into force of the TPP agreement or, if no agreement enters into force, four years from the close of the negotiations. * This document must be protected from unauthorized disclosure, but may be mailed or transmitted over unclassified e-mail or fax, discussed over unsecured phone lines, and stored on unclassified computer systems. It must be stored in a locked or secured building, room, or container. "


For some reason -- I'll leave that to others to decide why -- people like Senator Warren and others were saying last year that that meant Americans would not see the agreement until years after it was ratified and in effect. I think that mistaken rhetoric caused much of the uproar over the TPP, and is an example of the kinds of misinterpretations being made in this process.

In any even, that interpretation was wrong. The so-called "classification" applies to the negotiating documents where countries actually write their opinions/desires to facilitate negotiations. That is what was supposedly "classified." I say "supposedly" because it is readily available for review if anyone takes the time to look.

In any event, we will all see the final agreement -- assuming it is finalized and Obama deems it worthy to submit to Congress -- months before Congress Votes.

Hope this helps.

Though it's completely false. Trade treaties are public.

You may be thinking of the negotiating minutes, which may be classified for a while.

Thanks for that.

It did seem super-weird for a trade agreement to go into effect, but be kept a total secret. But then
this whole TPP shell game has been so weird and secretive that it wouldn't actually have surprised me.

"The parties have apparently agreed that all documents except the final text will be kept secret for four years after the agreement comes into force or the negotiations collapse. This reverses the trend in many recent negotiations to release draft texts and related documents. The existence of agreement was only discovered through a cover note to the leaked text of the intellectual property chapter.

New Zealand is the repository for all these documents and the conduit for all requests for the release of information, including this Memorandum of Understanding.

"

of income and wealth in the 1920's. That inequality reached historic levels that we still have not matched. Progressives in the 1920's probably thought the middle class was dead - or had never been born.

Perhaps 1933 would be a good starting point for the middle class with the inauguration of FDR. His policies created the middle class and do the same today in progressive countries.

Cars and radios became commonplace, people could go out to the movies - it was the golden age of the great movie palaces - and there became such a thing as popular fashion, all of which requires a middle class, at least in urbanized areas. Mass culture began to emerge via the movies and radio, and without a statistically significant middle class things like that can't exist. The enormous increase in US productivity in the post WW I era was a pre-echo of the boom of the Post WW II era and it did build a significant middle class.

Some deep stats and analysis can be found in Thomas Piketty's Capital in the 21st Century, and that was my basis for selecting 1920 as a start point.

The big market for American products was America. Europe was on its back from the War and the productivity had to go somewhere. I think we're disagreeing more about details than generalities.

Income taxes were more or less de minimus in effect in those days; effective rates became significant only before and during WW II. Again, Piketty discusses 20th century economic history in the developed countries, including the US, in far more detail than it would be possible to recount here.

Thank you for a great post, hifiguy!

These are the wealthiest times in human history and a Democratic president is advancing Voodoo Economics by another name.

FDR got people working -- that is creating things -- creating WEALTH.

Today, our Democratic leaders give us more Trickle Down Economics by another name.

Doesn't matter really, as long as the Superrich get most ALL of the profit and We the People get the AUSTERITY.

You have been my rabbi here, in a way.

With heavier weights.

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and there would be no need for guillotines.

The banksters and their cohorts would lose hundreds of billions of dollars, and we'd be pulling them off the ledge in order to keep them from jumping.

Then we put them on trial, convict them, and make it so they will never ever be able to harm anyone else for the rest of their lives.

If anyone ever deserved to be street pizzas it is those parasitic monsters.

RIP American Middle Class.

We had a good run, didn't we?

The biggest problem is that is was a suicide, in a way.

Without the dumber parts of the middle class rejecting unions, falling for the jebus-wheezers and voting Repuke beginning with Raygun the Simpleton, there is every chance it would be a happy and healthy class today.

I had a creeping suspicion that this would be where we ended up in the late 70s and early 80s.

Here's a prophetic 1977 song Listen Now by Phil Manzanera (music) and William and Iain MacCormick (lyrics)

Thunder rolling down out of dried-up skies
Every inch of earth crying out for water
Television man spelling out the price
Everywhere the sheep creeping the slaughter
Cold weather coming, people feel the fire
Living on Dead End Street with no desire

Is it any wonder you've got no power
When you pay a thief to keep it for you?
Is it a surprise that your wine is sour
When you let a liar choose the brew he pours you?

Talk on the wire about force and choice
It's uncomfortable to raise your voice
Everybody whispering behind their hand
Selling their despair to any stronger man
Don't have to listen now

We taught ourselves to trust our heads
It's getting us nowhere
If fifty-five million hearts can't feel it
We'll never know where

Polish up your silver and hide your gold
Send the lookout man down to every corner
Gather in the place where it's bought and sold
Next to where you once used to be a learner
Cold weather coming, people feel the fire
Living on Dead End Street with no desire
You gotta listen now

Now listen, now now listen
Now listen, now now listen.......

.... good musical taste to go with your general intelligence I have that album but for some reason never listened to it much. Will have to break it out. In fact, I have almost every recording in that orbit, 801, Phil, Roxy, Eno, etc, etc. Some of my favorite stuff!

Sucking up the wealth that belonged to the job creators.
We all know that because Ayn Rand proved it with her book Atlas Shrugged...which should be required reading for all politicians.

Do I really need the thing?

I am so disgusted with our Senator, Bill Nelson! He is a Blue Dog, Third Way, Neo-Liberal piece of crap. I am done with these so-called "Democrats", and I will advise my members to vote against him in the primary. Only problem is, we need a real Dem like Alan Grayson to run, and it looks like the DCC has already shunned him. One thing is for sure, I am NOT going to hold my nose and vote for the "lesser" of two evils in the form of HRC.

to finally listen to my conscience.

Called her staff before the vote, polite but completely onboard with the globalists, not representing their constituents at all. With Democrats like that, who needs Republicans?

He's retiring and cashing out, same as Obama. There's nothing we can do about either of them. I'm concerned about getting another Dem senator, especially with the FL yahoos and DLC types only supporting DINOS like Wasserman and scorning firebrands like Grayson. Got to study up on Murray.

we better quit whining,,, get up and start working to elect enough senators to take the Senate back.......

Reading is fundamental ,,,,,Critical Reading is Critically Fundamental !

Reading is fundamental... I asked you if calling someone a whiner is a personal attack. Critical reading is Critically fundamental.

Every country on earth with a strong middle class has strong labor unions, no exceptions. As go unions, so goes the middle class.

But apparently none of this matters to Hillary's supporters.

strongly supported and championed organized labor. Even Ike wrote his brother that attempting to roll back labor rights, not to mention other pillars of the New Deal was "stupid."

Proof:



Now some "Democrats" can't wait to undo the entire New Deal.

Both absolutely inexcusable.

Please elaborate ...

And since one good turn certainly deserves another, here is a pony for you:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=https://www.tumblr.com/tagged/pony-rolling-in-grass&h=665&w=1000&tbnid=Tv963xVYxubmnM:&zoom=1&docid=oKiOi4NR6S1FXM&ei=qeiLVaUjibn4AYXngVA&tbm=isch&client=safari&ved=0CH0QMyhBMEE

Bernie Sanders has my vote 100%. I refuse to vote for anyone who is in bed with the Corporations and 1%ers.

I'm done voting for the democrats who did this to us. I don't even want to hear any stupid twisted shit defending this. This country is too stupid to breathe.

This has been a totally bi-partisan effort.

Our representatives that we elect are working for banks and corps, and themselves, except for the true good ones.
Shameful, as Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio) said yesterday about TPP on the Senate floor after the vote.

How is Fascist Track killed I wonder? Citizens United, TPP and Voodoo Reaganomics, Rest in Peace American Middle Class.

- Leaders of the Buy-partisan CEO Parties, working together on common interests -

Only if viewed as separate Ds and Rs. Casting names aside, a majority of both parties act in the interests of their corporate masters. So in reality it's a unified corporate war on labor and consumers....enforced by militarized police. Welcome to the Fascist States of Amerikka.

as a Transformational President.

Richard Nixon started this "fast track" deals, and ever since it has been a down word spiral for the working poor and the middle class, this what called the proverbial nail in the coffin.

Who did he assign and nominate for the USTR---------------Michael Froman

My suggestion is to look at this person's history and then draw your own conclusions, but it all started with Nixon and his criminal enterprise

attitude.

Plenty of blame to go around with ALL republicans.

whole heartily----no argument there, I have been a life long democrat all my life, and I say this proudly and a Union member since I was eighteen.

I was just starting out in the aviation industry when he broke PATCO.
I have now seen a industry have heavy aircraft maintenance and flight line maintenance outsourced to third party states (non-union contractors) and countries for years (Singapore) and now the wages I started out with in the industry ($13.50--with benefits) are now only $5.00 more ( $18.50 without in a lot cases without a defined benefit package------401k scam) for some starting out in the industry today.

When Reagan was in power:

"For the first six years of the Reagan presidency (1981-87) The Republicans controlled the Senate, and the Democrats the House of Representatives
In 1986, the Democrats recaptured the Senate (while retaining the House) and thereafter remained in control of both chamber until losing both in 1994."

Nixon was forced to get Congress's approval to keep it

please read..................


http://citizen.typepad.com/eyesontrade/2014/06/nixon-hatched-fast-track-not-fdr.html

FDR (via LBJ) was guaranteed no-amendment votes on trade treaties.

THIS to the banksters and the oil company moguls? Why didn't we do in in '08 and '09?



And the Great Sedative Media is the reason we don't. The sheeple lap up and believe the corporate propaganda, reichwing lies, and mindless entertainment. As Roger Waters put it so aptly, we are amusing ourselves to death. Literally. When the coastlines are under a few fathoms of water and the food supply severely constricts, maybe some of the sheeple will start paying attention, only then it will be far too late.

"You mean the wolves and killer pigs really didn't have out best interests at heart?"

Wait until people begin to see how this works. Then they will ask "What's this TPP?" .

Only Dems get the barbs? Yes, the 13 deaths-door Dems are despicable and deserve to be primaried except Nelson who's retiring. He and Obama are both cashing out and yes, I'm extremely pissed at them and the other Dems that went along (ha, Obama was the very top cheerleader, this is his top priority). But face it, it's a Repug bill supported by lots more of them than the DINOS.

To me, the real message is get rid of all Repugs and replace DINOS.

That's why we are pissed.

I just feel like the worst traitors should get their due. I'm plenty pissed at the DINOs too.

We (theoretically) have influence over Democrats, so we should expend our efforts on trying to get them to change the way they do things.

WE EXPECT BETTER FROM A SO-CALLED DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT

the bulk of DUers opposing TPP seemed utterly unaware of this. Feinstein, Nelson, Carper, Cantwell, Murray and Wyden, either in the House or Senate voted yes on the Trifecta.

and war. Her husband is a contractor who's become rich off things she votes for. She's good on social issues but bad on everything else. Nelson is more of a mixed bag, but yes he is a reliable vote for any trade deal. His office staff said he trusted Obama and didn't want to vote against Obama's top priority.
Good excuse in general, but no cigar in this case. Wrong is wrong.

I've just been surprised at all the apparent shock by DUers at very predictable yes votes. It makes me think that if they had been more aware of who actually votes how a more pointed form of opposition might have been launched.
I would like to think that for the TPP votes people will sharpen the knowledge base.

The rest of us can get fucked.

in his post-presidential years. Just look at the wealth that has been lavished on the Clintons for their services to the plutocrat class.

all their mugs on it to passed around all over the nation. Work on unseating everyone of those fuckers and shame the shit out of them at the same time. Yesterday!

F*%K! F*%K! F*%K!

I've got Cantwell and Murray here in my state.

AS A WAY TO BECOME WEALTHY.

WEALTH BUYS THOSE HUNGRY FOR WEALTH. SOME OF THE BOUGHT SELL THEIR BODIES, SOME THEIR SOULS, SOME THEIR PRINCIPLES.

I think, though I would love to live through "history made," I must go with Bernie Sanders.

their salaries? Pretty much a direct statement as to who they're working for.

Overwhelming public opposition to fast tracking this middle finger to the poor and middle class didn't make a bit of difference.

See the Clintons.

The choice couldn't be clearer... A vote for Hillary is a vote for more of the same.

for NAFTA, the Telecom Act and "banking reform" would be a grizzly bear in a phone booth or a herd of buffalo in Times Square.

TPP hasn't even been introduced yet.

Jesus, I wish they'd go back to teaching Civics as a required course in High School.

the game is over. The entire FT process is designed as a work-around to the entire concept of debate and amend. Yea or Nay. No changes allowed. That is the whole of what FT IS.

The treaty hasn't been introduced yet.

There are still two up or down votes.

You can STILL stop it if it ends up being as odious as you assume.

Second, when a majority in Congress votes to totally give up their ability to change or add amendments to a piece of legislation, its pretty safe to say the deal is probably done and has about a 90% chance of passing.

Nuff said.

I hope that isn't the case. But I doubt it.

And nobody knows what the final agreement looks like yet, either.

This doom and gloom is political ignorance.