The issue is too complex for most to understand and those against it haven't really made the point of why it's bad (though there are bad parts).

To retrain all the millions who lose American jobs because of this.

Good thing the minimum wage increase crusade has lots of public interest.

Then, once we can actually read how bad this deal screws over the working person, there will be protests. Too late, and that's what they are counting on.

Especially if it is all legal language.

I will be calling my congress persons but I doubt there will be much of a protest unless our unions and environmental groups etc organize it. No one believes we can do much about it so I suspect there will be nothing done.

To post #1: it really isn't our fault we did not make the case for it being dangerous. After all we are not the ones asking the American people to accept an international treaty written by corporate lobbyists that has not been revealed to the people.

The annexes of course will make the thing blow up to several thousand pages (like NAFTA) but there wouldn't be anything in there for mass protest. Maybe some pig farmer in some town somewhere might find out that he's getting a bad deal on some exports he was doing and he'd set up a sign and sit in a lawnchair, etc.

I don't know what will happen. I think that if there's a SOPA-like or a net-neutrality-like protest things can change, and the vote can be shot down.

the schedule's a little freer...

If that United for Peace and Justice crowd does the organizing, it will be a clusterfuck and won't get any traction in Congress.

It's got to be either a focused protest, not a "throw every issue under one umbrella" one, or none at all.

Labor unions know how to throw one HELLA protest. They are organized, relentless, have really good, clear signage, can muster massive crowds, can motivate hangers-on to join in, and know how to get media to cover their efforts.

If labor unions throw a protest, people will come. IN DROVES.

Question is, will they move on this?

Some background music: Why labor unions oppose the Trans-Pacific Partnership

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/labor-unions-oppose-trans-pacific-partnership/

I thought they had a few months to put all the stuff in order before that, and then the countdown to the vote begins. So it may not be made public until the second or third Democratic primary debates.

(This is also why Clinton is going to have to address this in the primaries, it'll be interesting.)

There surely must be a digitized version on file--they can put it on the web, and Bob's Yer Uncle...? Of course, "the negotiations must be finalized" and I have no idea how close to the wire they are on that.

USA TODAY, for what they are worth, says "not before the fall." But many a slip twixt the cup and the lip...? http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2015/06/24/trade-fast-track-questions/29214127/

...there should be nothing barring the core text to be made public even if the annexes are still being worked out.

I think it'll be released when they push the button on the count down clock!!!

But hey, I know nothing, really--I am not an expert on this topic AT ALL, and I really want to read the documents first hand to try to get a sense of the implications. I'm hearing a lot of information from the pro and anti sides, but I want to read it myself before I light my hair on fire.

That said, I'll continue to listen to people who love it/hate it until they release it; it helps to be informed by assorted perspectives ahead of time, in order to be attuned to issues of concern.

Last edited Thu Jun 25, 2015, 01:08 AM - Edit history (1)

as they were told. There will be some holdouts, not unlike those who still believe the South will rise again, or the Japanese soldiers who continued to fight WII 30 years after it was over.

Senators Sanders and Warren will continue to rant about secrecy after any agreement is posted on the web for everyone to read, and printed for bathroom reading.

Those who hate corporations, even though they work for them, will blame TPP for all kinds of stuff, and lament their control of politicians around the world.

Some of that may be true.

In other words, no change.

I would hope if they believed that they would start a protest. I would love to be part of some kind of protest like this but I just don't know what will happen. I'm cynical and have doubts, but I think if there's a concerted effort something can happen.

Don't know if this is fits in with your idea of democracy, but I thought We the People got to decide what goes, not the Corporations and their attorneys.

On the Internet ... between episodes of Game of Thrones.

It's just so disappointing because, like my post notes, SOPA / net-neutrality, they were internet protests. But I'm beginning to fear that won't happen. The responses aren't very encouraging, to say the least. I don't know for sure what will happen, but part of me believes greatness can happen.

A Pew poll from May showed that 58 percent of Democrats believe that free trade agreements have been good for the country, along with 53 percent of Republicans. A recent Gallup poll showed similar results, with 61 percent of Democrats viewing foreign trade an opportunity for economic growth through increased U.S. exports, rather than a threat from foreign imports; 51 percent of Republicans felt similarly. http://www.newrepublic.com/article/121989/trans-pacific-partnership-divides-left-dems-support-free-trade

I admit I've been avoiding getting down in the weeds on this issue--there was just too much fighting going on about it, but this (see the bolded bit), I did not know:

All of that; but will add ... I'll have to wait to see what's in it before I form an opinion on it. If it's like most agreements (of any kind between opposing parties with opposing interests) ... there will be some good, some bad and most that we won't be able to tell whether it is good or bad for decades.

And, some here will focus on the good in the agreement and call it great and others will focus on the bad in the agreement and call it the "death of the American middle class" and most will move on to the next great existential threat.

If we can succeed in getting primary opponents to face off against all of those Dems that voted for this mess, then that will send a strong message that we're through just trying to talk to people, that we mean business, and we're going to see to it that politicians that don't represent us are not going to allow to continue to *appear* that they support us when they don't and booted out of office for others who will!

There is a SLIM chance that it will ultimately get voted down if we keep up the pressure. However, in that unlikely scenario, I will still vote for anyone challenging a supporter of it.

I will not forget! I tried to get rid of the goons that voted for the Bankruptcy bill a while back but many are still roaming the halls of congress. I really hope TPP gets more attention than that bill did - I hope we can fight effectively.

...there will be even less effort to primary someone.

I mean we can do this mostly on the internet, with large phone banking drives to congresspeople. That's exactly how SOPA went down. Well, plus we can have websites voluntarily go down for a day.

Primarying someone requires a lot of on the ground work, far more than an internet based campaign could ever pretend to do.

I feel fucking helpless over here in Korea. I can write legislators and LTE and call people, but not much more.

The whole thing pisses me off because both my senator and congressman voted for it. I'd like to go to their offices and scream my head off.

And the militarized police they have bequeathed us.
I wouldn't recommend it.
They are well armed, raring to go and just itching for an excuse to cripple someone trying to express quaint "rights".

It's interesting to me that many of those who say they oppose this have spent months telling us it is a done deal, already passed, no way to stop it, the world has ended. It's a contradictory message to say 'it has already passed' and also ask people to stop it from passing. It's not effective.

Until it is fixed and we get some congressmen and a President who cares about labor more than corporate greed.

I had to watch Fahrenheit 911 to see the large protests at the first Bush Inaugural.

Largest protests in history to stop Iraq, the only thing they proved was protest is useless.

Courtesy of the US taxpayer, which is nice.

Helps keep tabs on everybody after the show. For convenience in the Hannah Arendt sense.