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Uncle Joe

(58,584 posts)
Sat Jun 27, 2015, 12:37 AM Jun 2015

On the Confederate Flag

I don't normally agree with FOX but I thought this was a good read and there is much more on the link.



We haven't been collectively this dumb at falling for a bait and switch since we went to war with Iraq after 9/11

Of course, because corporate stupidity spreads like a virus online, Amazon and eBay immediately followed Wal Mart's "brave" stance in disallowing Confederate flag items. Although, eBay continues to offer tons of Nazi gear. So at least they aren't incredibly selective and arbitrary in what they ban. The final straw for me was something simple -- Warner Brothers announcing they would no longer license the Dukes of Hazzard General Lee car with the Confederate flag on the roof. I mean, how dumb can you get? Bo and Luke Duke were American heroes beloved by anyone who liked fast cars, doors that didn't work, tight jeans, Daisy Duke shorts, and rivers that needed to be jumped by a car in the air. (Now Boss Hogg and Roscoe P. Coltrane on the other hand -- total assholes.) Is there anyone on earth who watched that television show and thought, "these racist Duke boys have to be stopped!" Is there anyone on earth who would see the Confederate flag on top of the General Lee and think Warner Brothers hates black people?

(snip)

But that's the problem with our modern era, we have lost all ability to put things into context. There's a difference between what's said in church and what's said in a comedy club; there's a difference between a racist waving the Confederate flag and Sons of Confederate Veteran members sitting down to debate Southern strategy on the second day of the Battle of Gettysburg. But not on social media. Social media doesn't exist for context. It exists for immediate expressions of outrage. Context takes up too many characters, bro. If I can't sum up the world in 140 characters, what's the point of the world at all? We're not far from electing a smiley face emoticon President.

(snip)

I love American history for the same reason I love great literature, because it ennobles the mind to read about imperfect people -- people just like you and me -- struggling to be better than they actually are. Sometimes these people fail -- Thomas Jefferson had kids with a slave -- but he also wrote the most beautiful and important document in the history of our country: the Declaration of Independence. Martin Luther King Jr. slept with prostitutes in his Washington hotel room just before he gave the most important speech of the 20th century. Does that make either of these men less worthy of study? Of course not. It humanizes them and shows that like all of us they weren't perfect either. American history is riddled with conflict, both external and internal. It's why the study of history is really the study of us.

(snip)

I know in our modern social media world filled with like buttons and favoriting conceits it's impossible to believe that people do both good and bad things, but we've got to stop this latest viral trend before it gets started -- judging people from history based not on their own times, but ours in the present day. Many things in our history are offensive to present day tastes, but you don't combat things you dislike in history by removing them from discussion and analysis. That's what totalitarian regimes do, eliminate any aspects of history that conflict with their version of the present day. When a new dictator arrives what's the first thing he does, remove all the statues of the old dictator. Erase his history. Hell, it's what Muslim fundamentalists do when they erase "graven" historic Islamic images that conflict with their regressive interpretation of the Koran. Cleansing history of things that bring discomfort isn't what free societies hoping to learn from past struggles do.


http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/outkick-the-coverage/on-the-confederate-flag-062415

15 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
2. My gawd
Sat Jun 27, 2015, 01:15 AM
Jun 2015

They are flipping out; going nuts over the flag being taken down in South Carolina after that damn punk kid waved it and a pistol?

What a sorry ass bunch of turdblossoms retching like that over a flag.

Screw foxnews and the sewer they floated in on.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
5. All of it
Sat Jun 27, 2015, 01:28 AM
Jun 2015

I laugh at them. With all that is going on, they have no higher mind than to whine about the flag being taken down from official state flagposts?

We know they hate Obama, and equality, and could not care one whit about the people who see the flag, and that punk-ass kid, as threats to their freedom... so screw them. I hope they choke on it.

Heh, they are choking!!

 

davidn3600

(6,342 posts)
8. Most conservatives agree the flag should be taken down from state grounds
Sat Jun 27, 2015, 01:48 AM
Jun 2015

That flag shouldnt be flying on government property. Only the very far right think it should.

But the idea that we need to destroy statues, monuments, or ban private individuals from flying the confederate flag (a couple on DU have suggested as such) is what's going way too far.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
11. Yep
Sat Jun 27, 2015, 02:08 AM
Jun 2015

""Most conservatives agree the flag should be taken down from state grounds""

And those that are choking on it, I laugh at.

I think of that rag as akin to porno-graphic. It is a symbol of oppression.

When I see someone waving it, it gives me warning to stay clear of them. Or if I feel like arguing with an idiot, get in their face.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
3. Yeah, no. Putting something in a museum instead of the state house does not erase history.
Sat Jun 27, 2015, 01:17 AM
Jun 2015

Far from ignoring the context of them, museums preserve it. The flag was at the state house last week. That's when it was judged for being at the state house last week. No context of time was lost. And btw, good people were abolitionists in the 1600s.

The Dukes of Hazzard aren't history.

Warner Brothers, Amazon and WalMart are private companies. They can do whatever they want.

Social media doesn't make anyone more stupid. It just makes everyone's ideas, stupid and clever, more visible.

Amazon's making a voluntary business decision about selling confederate flag items doesn't have a hell of a lot to do with Muslim fundamentalism.

I could go on, but you get the picture. The Op article don't impress me much.


Uncle Joe

(58,584 posts)
6. And while all these private corporations, corporate media and enlightened Republicans
Sat Jun 27, 2015, 01:33 AM
Jun 2015

were making their decisions about removing the Confederate Flag from public view be it state grounds, clothes, games and most everything else, the actual issue of racism was put on the back burner and Congress passed fast track authority on the TPP.


https://s.yimg.com/fz/api/res/1.2/2qENu76E4HblSGysSn8e9g--/YXBwaWQ9c3JjaGRkO2g9MTM1MztxPTk1O3c9MTQwNA--/

As for its' connection to Muslim Fundamentalism.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamiyan

The Buddhas of Bamiyan (Persian: بت های باميان – but hay-e bamiyan) were two 6th-century[1] monumental statues of standing buddha carved into the side of a cliff in the Bamyan valley in the Hazarajat region of central Afghanistan, 230 km (140 mi) northwest of Kabul at an altitude of 2,500 meters (8,200 feet). Built in 507 AD (smaller) and 554 AD (larger),[1] the statues represented the classic blended style of Gandhara art.[2]

(snip)

They were dynamited and destroyed in March 2001 by the Taliban, on orders from leader Mullah Mohammed Omar,[4] after the Taliban government declared that they were idols.[5] An envoy visiting the United States in the following weeks explained that they were destroyed to protest international aid exclusively reserved for statue maintenance while Afghanistan was experiencing famine,[6] while the Afghan Foreign Minister claimed that the destruction was merely about carrying out Islamic religious iconoclasm. International opinion strongly condemned the destruction of the Buddhas, which in the following years was primarily viewed as an example of the extreme religious intolerance of the Taliban. Japan and Switzerland, among others, have pledged support for the rebuilding of the statues.[7]




merrily

(45,251 posts)
7. Yes and no. Most people who spoke about the flag, including the President, addressed what
Sat Jun 27, 2015, 01:42 AM
Jun 2015

it stands for and why any government's elevating is wrong.

The Civil Rights Act and the Voting Act did not end racism, yet they had to be. However, you can't legislate racism out of existence. You can, however, legislate government participation in racism out of existence. Or into existence.

South Carolina had a law that mandated that a symbol of slavery and racism fly at the state house unless a super majority of the state legislature decided otherwise. That law should end. However, ending the law should not end the effort to end racism in "hearts and minds." It's not one or the other.

We have a tendency to go "either or," or false dilemma. Should we leave the flag of racism flying at state houses or should we work on ending racism? is a false dilemma.

BTW, the Taliban is not anyone's duly elected legislature or Amazon's board of directors . Every "connection" of some kind is not an equivalency or even an apt analogy.

Uncle Joe

(58,584 posts)
9. Symbols mean different things to different people, no pun intended
Sat Jun 27, 2015, 01:57 AM
Jun 2015

but it's not a black and white world.

The Stars and Stripes being a prime example and that will be under attack next and perhaps for good reason it has a sordid past as well.




merrily

(45,251 posts)
10. For better or worse, the stars and stripes is the only flag of this nation.
Sat Jun 27, 2015, 02:07 AM
Jun 2015

It stands for what this nation stands for--all of it--freedom from a monarch, representative government, etc.. There is not a single nation on earth that has been perfect throughout its entire entire history, yet every nation has a flag.

The confederate flag stands for a nation that rebelled against the USA because the USA would not extend slavery to the territories.

I commented on the OP article. Seems you want to go away from that into why it should be okay to fly a flag of slavery and treason at a state house today. I don't see a point to my participating in that discussion.

So, good night.



Uncle Joe

(58,584 posts)
12. I don't have any problem with removing it from the state house grounds or even
Sat Jun 27, 2015, 02:16 AM
Jun 2015

removing it from the state flag as some states have it incorporated, if that's what the state wants to do.

As for history; it never stops being revised.

Good night to you, merrily.

Uncle Joe

(58,584 posts)
13. P.S. But when we have ill thought regionlistic threads here at D.U. asking
Sat Jun 27, 2015, 03:13 AM
Jun 2015

whether the U.S. would be better off if the South, Texas or any other state left the union all you do is give ammunition to the people that you claim to despise, along with multitudes of people; on the border that identify with their city, state or region to even more strongly cling to that symbol of rebellion.

Not to mention that you betray (not you personally) that which Abraham Lincoln, 300,000+ dead and countless wounded Union Soldiers fought and died for, preserving the Union.

In my book, regionalism is no different than racism, it's the same narrow minded, simplistic mindset.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
14. Regionalism is different from racism. For one thing, no one murdered nine regions
Sat Jun 27, 2015, 03:17 AM
Jun 2015

because of regionalism last week.

And no, not me personally. Disliking a flag is not the same as disliking a region or everyone in a region. Neither is condemning the Klan the same as condemning a region or everyone in a region.

Uncle Joe

(58,584 posts)
15. Regionalism and racism are of the same mindset, they might not have killed nine regions in
Sat Jun 27, 2015, 03:24 AM
Jun 2015

Charleston, but people have been killed all over the world over it, this tribe that tribe, this nation that nation.

It doesn't take too much awareness or research to know that.

I'm not accusing you of regionalism but those that practice it only increase the odds of Southerners "getting over" that terrible conflict and in turn weaken our nation by keeping fault lines active.

P.S. I don't have any problem condemning the Klan.

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