Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
Sun Jun 28, 2015, 08:20 PM Jun 2015

The judicial opponents of gay marriage were not content to go gently into that good night.

Loving v. Virginia was 9–0. Obergefell v. Hodges was 5–4.

[center][/center]

Judge Posner writes of the gay marriage case: “It is very difficult to distinguish the case from Loving v. Virginia, which in 1967 invalidated state laws forbidding miscegenation.” He gets to the heart of the similarity between the two when he notes that in neither case was there any harm done to anyone else from the forbidden marriages.

But there is one major respect in which Loving differs greatly from Obergefell v. Hodges: Loving was 9–0. Obergefell was 5–4.


In Loving, no one dissented. In Obergefell, the four dissenting justices wrote four separate dissenting opinions. The judicial opponents of gay marriage were not content to go gently into that good night.

First, there is Chief Justice John Roberts, who would want to correct what I just wrote by arguing that he is not an “opponent of gay marriage”: He simply wants the issue resolved by the people or their elected representatives in the states. In the Slate Amicus podcast you and I recorded on Friday, Dahlia, I noted that the chief seemed to go out of his way to be respectful of LGBT advocates, noting, for example, that they “make strong arguments rooted in social policy and considerations of fairness.” You (and others who were actually in the courtroom Friday) tell me that his spoken summary of his dissent sounded more hostile and dismissive than the written opinion.

In the end, the chief justice’s dissent fails to offer any meaningful response to the simple argument that governmental restrictions on freedom must be justified by a reason—some public harm averted. Roberts doesn’t really provide any list of harms averted. And as Posner points out, what is left when there is no real harm is the possibility of hostility to the rights of others, an impermissible basis for a governmental rule.


Read More.
8 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The judicial opponents of gay marriage were not content to go gently into that good night. (Original Post) Agschmid Jun 2015 OP
If I were given the oppportunity to address the Chief Justice, guillaumeb Jun 2015 #1
Lots of severely hateful and potentially violent folks are not done randys1 Jun 2015 #2
Unfortunately... yup. Agschmid Jun 2015 #3
Much as I hate to say it, it might come to Pink Pistols for protection! n/t RKP5637 Jun 2015 #5
10 years after Loving, some state clerks were *still* refusing mixed race couples. X_Digger Jun 2015 #6
Posner demolished all of the dissenters' arguments, such as they are, hifiguy Jun 2015 #4
Never thought they would. Behind the Aegis Jun 2015 #7
Good article about the 4 dissenting justices. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #8

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
1. If I were given the oppportunity to address the Chief Justice,
Sun Jun 28, 2015, 08:27 PM
Jun 2015

and regarding his argument that seems to be based on states rights, or states taking precedence, or states being the laboratories of democracy,

What would you do Mr. Chief Justice if a state, say Alabama, declared miscegenation to be illegal, and therefore prohibited interracial marriage?

Robert's argument about allowing all states to come to the realization that gay rights are simply equal rights might mean that another 50 years could pass before all states agreed that gay marriage is marriage equality.

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
6. 10 years after Loving, some state clerks were *still* refusing mixed race couples.
Sun Jun 28, 2015, 09:35 PM
Jun 2015

It's going to take a generation for true equality.

In the meantime? Fire up the lawsuits, baby. Daddy needs a new pair of shoes.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
4. Posner demolished all of the dissenters' arguments, such as they are,
Sun Jun 28, 2015, 08:31 PM
Jun 2015

in his masterpiece of an opinion in the WI and IN cases last year. This is a clear-cut case of very simple 14th Amendment equal protection jurisprudence, which is just what he called it. First-year, hornbook law.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»The judicial opponents of...