General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsListen, y'all:
I and many other southerners on this board would really appreciate a courtesy. Please do us the courtesy of not treating the south as monolithic. It's not. There are plenty of us who were born here, and have lived our lives here, who are just as liberal as you are. There is a political spectrum in the south, just as there is in the north. So please stop referring to the south as universally bigoted, racist, ignorant, stupid, poor, living in trailers, engaging in incest, etc., etc. Please stop starting posts with "the South" or "Southerners" or at least type "some Southerners." If you don't live here or haven't lived here, you really don't have the experience to generalize, so please don't.
Far too many people down here have been deceived by revisionist history (and it's been going on for generations). Far too many people down here haven't had experience with people different from them. Far too many people down here have been deluded into voting against their self-interests. Far too many people down here have been brought up in the toxic stew that is religious fundamentalism. It makes the life of southern liberals somewhat harder than how you have it up north or out west. We can catch a lot of crap for our views down here. We'd appreciate it if y'all wouldn't pile on, too, by including us in a mix that we want no part of and speak out against.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)Then we'll talk.
GaYellowDawg
(4,452 posts)Although it's not specifically Southern, I do a great iron-skillet cooked steak with wine and mushrooms with baked potato on the side. Also Parker House style yeast rolls from scratch.
But breakfast... I make my grandmother's from-scratch biscuits and sausage gravy like she did them.
And I make a pretty good key lime pie from scratch.
Would that do?
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)The thing I say the most when I come back from a visit is how stuffed I am. The food in the South is insane, and I'm from California and we have awesome food. I'll have everything you're cooking!!!
Food is definitely the way to my heart. So now we are friends.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)funny thing is they served for the south, never said a SINGLE word and my mother into adulthood thought her family was union. She was ashamed to find out they weren't but the family's silence and teaching to treat everyone right spoke for their core beliefs. I hope people remember that when they go off on Palin or the permanent fund. Truly. I want some cookin' too. I want good fried chicken. Now.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)biscuits, sweet potato biscuits, gumbo, fried catfish, squash casserole, meatloaf, mashed potatoes, oysters, crab and shrimp. I could eat it all, even though I eat very healthy most of the time. It's good I don't live there because I would weigh a ton. I make the best fried chicken west of the Mississippi but I learned how to do it in the South (though I do have my secret). And I have not perfected hot chicken and wish I could. And po boy sandwiches, don't get me started.
Mmmmmm mmm.
I like Southern people. I like their hospitality and laid back attitude. I wish that would permeate their politics for the most part. I like to visit and explore the region because it is so different from where I live. But I don't like bugs or humidity. So I guess it all evens out. I'm pretty much cool with everyone as long as they are cool with me. I was scared the first time I went because I am not the lightest person, but everyone was very nice. And usually they were giving me delicious food!
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)thank you for that list of luscious food. It is unbelievably good.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Yankee!
Funny grits story: I went over to an apparently ex-DUer's house one morning to watch his bootleg copy of F9/11. The Mrs. made us ham and grits for breakfast -- and proceeded to explain to me what grits were! I gently reminded her that I had lived in NOLA for a time and knew perfectly well what they were.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)I have had good cheese grits, and I really liked shrimp and grits because pretty much anything with shrimp on it is my favorite. But I do usually skip them one, because I do not eat much carbohydrate at home and if messes with my digestion. And two, I see it as filler keeping me from eating more chicken and crab and shrimp. But if someone put a plate of grits in front of me with something delicious with it, I would not say no.
I'm sorry I hijacked the thread talking about food, but you southern folk have the best American food and should flaunt it. It would be great outreach. Anything with gravy. Food will unite us!
aikoaiko
(34,186 posts)BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)I couldn't go back a third time because my stomach wouldn't let me. I can only do short bursts on my trips because I'm not used to eating that way. But I can still remember it! I use her recipe for meatloaf because I bought her cookbook.
Do you live in Savannah?
aikoaiko
(34,186 posts)BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)That area is beautiful and I always thought about renting a place there for a few months. Maybe some day. We have great ethnic food here in Los Angeles that I would miss if I were away too long though.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)Other than the trailer comment, and the anti-trailer comments I see sometimes on DU, I have to agree with the call to recognize that a lot of us on DU are southerners and liberals too. We are not all pro-Confederate bigots down here. Hell, I get hate for being gay a lot down here and a lot of hate from some in the north for being from the south. It feels like I can't win sometimes.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I have seen more vitriol and unadulterated hate on DU toward the south than I ever experienced in the south for my sexual orientation.
I've come to understand that "far too many" DUers simply love an excuse to spew vile and vicious insults at people they don't even know.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)to the jury system. The jury system is hit or miss, for the most part
DrDan
(20,411 posts)was removed from the TOS
Other forms of bigotry have survived the change. Why not this one.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)I didn't know that had changed.
Stonepounder
(4,033 posts)Oh, and did I that we live in a 'mobile home'? We live in a lovely trailer park, with large lots; big, mature trees, and lovely neighbors. We are retired, living on a fixed income, and paid cash for our mobile. That means our 'rent' is just our lot rent. I seriously doubt that you could find a 3 Br, 2 Ba, LR, DR, K, laundry room, 1500 SqFt apartment for what we pay for lot rent. I also doubt we could have found a 'site built' home to fit our needs that would have given us a mortgage payment as low as our lot rent.
When I had my gall bladder out and couldn't cut the grass for a couple of weeks, our neighbor from 2 doors up, who we know to nod to, saw my wife cutting the grass, and came down and told her to knock it off, he would take care of it. He had noticed that I always was the one cutting the grass and figured it she was cutting it I must be sick or something, so he did it.
So the South is not all bigots and res-necks.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)even the Republican ones.
GaYellowDawg
(4,452 posts)Oh wait, it's in my mouth. With my foot. Thank you for being so graceful as you pointed out the trailer comment.
Hekate
(91,057 posts)kentauros
(29,414 posts)That's the phrase I've come to after seeing how some here just can't stop punishing this region and all who live in it for the crimes of their ancestors. Our region started the Civil War, so we're all traitors and should be treated as such. We're akin to ex-cons, or even akin to convicts, because we haven't yet served out our perpetual sentences. Even seceding wouldn't be enough for some of them...
djean111
(14,255 posts)I do like the thought that they will NEVER come to Florida, for example. Good!
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)I'm from East Tennessee. My ancestors fought with the North!
R. P. McMurphy
(837 posts)Both of my great-grandfathera fought for the Union. Sadly, many of my current family are woefully unenlightened.
fbc
(1,668 posts)lovemydog
(11,833 posts)I will do better in the future.
Thank you all our southern friends here at DU.
Paka
(2,760 posts)It seems the more extreme they are, the more noise they make and drown out all the logical thoughts that in the end, we are all individuals and unique in who we are. That concept is just too complex for some to accept. Stay firm and keep on the good path.
Gothmog
(146,038 posts)There are many hardcore democrats and liberals in the south who are working to change things. It is a slow and painful process but the process continues and we will not give up
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)ananda
(28,925 posts)It's a great hope and people have been saying that for years..
as it gets redder and redder.
lark
(23,206 posts)Just because I was born there doesn't mean I HAVE to think like a redneck, or that I can't be smart.
When I moved to CA at age 18 to get away from the redneck haters, i had a serious disconnect. I thougth people in CA wouldn't judge so negatively for being a "hippie". No, they judged me on my manner of speech. I was at a health food store and had been talking to the cashier, then walked over a couple of aisles. I overheard this person talking about how stupid southerners were, you could just hear the dumb in their accent. I was mortified and decided right then that I was not going to be judged by my country metaphors or accent and started really monitoring and changing my speech. Within a few months no one could tell I was from the south and I never had anyone else judge me as stupid.
Prejudice is everywhere, regardless of location, and there's many different forms, none of them pretty.
questionseverything
(9,667 posts)Where are the Ballots?
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cwydro
(51,308 posts)Thank you!
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Especially with threads having such titles as "The South wasn't punished ENOUGH."
brer cat
(24,673 posts)it appears that it is northern and western citizens still fighting the Civil War. I don't hear that at all where I live in the south.
I don't hear it either.
Nor do I see the flag in my travels throughout rural North and South Carolina.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)brer cat
(24,673 posts)The moral superiority of some of our northern and western DUers is based on nothing more than stereotypes about the south, and willful ignorance of their own history. Racism and bigotry is nation-wide, and we can't progress to a more perfect union by attributing all of our problems to one region.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)CTyankee
(63,932 posts)Last edited Mon Jun 29, 2015, 09:23 AM - Edit history (1)
all of my people were Southern people as my aunt used to say when she would remonstrate me for doing so. I was so tired of the romanticizing of the ante bellum south, Gone with the Wind, and the de jure segregated public schools I attended, and all the white supremicist stuff I heard. I never believed that in the NE or anywhere else there would be no prejudice against black people (and in TX include Mexican people). My family never really got over my "desertion" but they didn't exclude me and I think finally understood what I was doing. I wasn't rejecting them, but I was rejecting an ideology that I found repugnant. And my ideas were clearly out of step with the majority so I was just as happy to go find people in liberal NE states that suited me better.
That was a long time ago and things have changed a great deal. Progress has been made in my hometown of Dallas and I'm proud that they made those changes, altho they were beginning to see that economic progress would NOT be made on a racist ideology. More yankees poured in, lured by the better weather and opportunities to make better money. But the fact was that TX had to obey the federal laws on desegregation.
As a kid, I remember this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Rock_Nine
panader0
(25,816 posts)and though lately the vitriol has been directed toward the South, there is a long tradition of state bashing in general here on DU.
I live in Arizona and have seen many posts bashing Az. Yeah, we have two (R) senators an (R) governor and Arpaio, but there are
many good liberals here working to change our elected officials. Region bashing, state bashing and broad brush generalizations
about any part of the country are poor and ugly arguments.
Phentex
(16,334 posts)What if people outside the US posted threads using the word Americans instead of Southerners (after all many Southerners are Americans, lol). There would be no way of knowing which Americans were being discussed. The argument "well, I'm not talking about you so don't take it personally" would be very difficult to lean on. The OP could be about Arizona or Georgia or Massachusetts. I don't think it would take long for people to feel offended at the use of the word Americans instead of some Americans or some people from Georgia or some people in Massachusetts.
On top of that, some people from the south are asking people to stop broad brushing. Why continue to do it?
DawgHouse
(4,019 posts)dawg
(10,626 posts)Just because of where they live.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)I was raised in the blue northeast, but have lived in Texas for a long time. I understand why people say what they do about this state, but there's a lot of good here, and a lot of liberals like me. I think it's only a matter of time, once we figure out how to oust the GOPers, which isn't easy since they've rigged the system in their favor.
randys1
(16,286 posts)nilesobek
(1,423 posts)to have to defend where you live instead of who you are.
Homer Wells
(1,576 posts)I spent my early years in Tampa. I was happy to come up to the mountains in the late '70's, and though I consider myself to be quite liberal, I still live in an area with a unhealthy level of backward thinking, conservative mouth-breathers. However, even here in WV, there are some like minded folk around.
I guess the real problem with treating the South as monolithic is the media reporting and depiction of that area of the country.
It is a natural tendency of human beings to try to pigeonhole different people and groups. In a way, it could be called intellectual laziness, and it would behoove people to stop and think before doing such pigeonholing.
JMHO
Steve
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)it seems as if any conservative/fundie can post their stupidity on Facebook until the cows come home but the moment I speak up, that is the moment I'm treated like a piece of shit and people want to unfriend me. So I find myself having to restrain myself from correcting their idiocy just to keep the peace.
Glorfindel
(9,751 posts)You said it just right. Even here in darkest Mississippi, most of the local elected officials are still Democrats. Not everyone in the south is bigoted, hateful, and ignorant.
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)It is such a yawn to open up DU and find the GD page spammed with such crap.
Well put.
Those posts are ignorant and tiresome.
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)have them all cowering in a corner with the might of her convictions and her outlook on what is going on. She takes umbrage with the term PoC because we all have a color in the crayon box of life. So, to her, the term is absolutely meaningless and borders on offensive.
She takes pride in the fact the her ancestry comes from a Master who chose her female ancestor pretty for his mistress and bequeathed her some land so her and her children could settle away from the locals.
This is how Connelly Springs came to be.
Another black woman I work with is not happy with the way Black History month is taught in the school system and says her daughter dreads every February when it rolls around.
salimbag
(173 posts)Originally from Kentucky, we used to say "everybody's colored, otherwise you couldn't see 'em". One race, folks, the human race.
Major Nikon
(36,828 posts)On Mon Jun 29, 2015, 04:08 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
As a progressive
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6922073
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
"everybody's colored" http://racerelations.about.com/od/understandingrac1/a/racialnamestoavoid_2.htm
from the link:"Colored" Is Outdated but Continues to Pop up Today
Think only octogenarians use terms such as colored to describe African Americans? Think again. When Barack Obama was elected president in November 2008, starlet Lindsay Lohan expressed her happiness about the event by remarking to the Access Hollywood TV show, Its an amazing feeling. Its our first, you know, colored president. And Lohans not the only young person in the public eye to use the term. Julie Stoffer, one of the houseguests featured on MTVs The Real World: New Orleans, also raised eyebrows when she referred to African Americans as colored. Most recently, Jesse James' alleged mistress Michelle "Bombshell" McGee sought to defuse rumors that she's a white supremacist by remarking, "I make a horrible racist Nazi. I have too many colored friends."
This is a slur
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Jun 29, 2015, 04:35 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: What a sorry alert.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is a bogus alert. I understand the context of the post. Please leave it.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Ever tried decaff?
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I see no slur intended. The alerter should have engaged the poster to explain why the post is a problem.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)3catwoman3
(24,147 posts)And I was just about to comment favorably on the creative turn of phrase, "We all have a color in the crayon box of life." Is someone going to alert on that, too?
Major Nikon
(36,828 posts)The phrase that I posted in quotation marks, was, in fact, a response to the word being used as a racial slur. Sorry you didn't get it. The very clever comeback was used in the 50's and 60's to push back against the pervasive racism of the time. So no, used in this context, it was an anti-slur.
Major Nikon
(36,828 posts)I was juror #5 and I posted the results for your benefit. Sorry you didn't get it.
salimbag
(173 posts)I could not see any names on the alert except yours, so I just responded to you. No harm no foul. Whoever alerted did not know the context of the phrase, so I tried to clarify. All is well.
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)They were born here in America not, in Africa.
Response to Hiraeth (Reply #33)
Hiraeth This message was self-deleted by its author.
Greybnk48
(10,183 posts)for generations and they are almost all liberal. I am also constantly surprised at how many people in Wisconsin sound just like the racists and bigots in "the South."
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)People shouldn't act as if this problem is unique to just the South. In fact, my family has had plenty of stories over the years of being treated weird here out West. For example, my father got called the N-word in Castro Valley during the 90s, and my sister always has staff staring at/following her around in local stores as if they think she'll shoplift.
TygrBright
(20,780 posts)Because there are a gracious plenty of privilege-assuming, entitled dickheads in every region of the United States, doing their damndest to keep the barricades strong against equity and justice for people different than them.
Mind you, I have no expectation that either your excellently-worded OP nor my codicil will actually be regarded by those who prefer shorthand and assumptions to reason and inclusion.
wearily,
Bright
herding cats
(19,569 posts)The south is anything but monolithic. Yes, there is quite a few racist, but they're not the majority. They're just loud and get the majority of the attention.
People Who Reported as Both Black and White More than Doubled
The U.S. Census Bureau released today a 2010 Census brief, The Black Population: 2010 [PDF], that shows 14 percent of all people in the United States identified as black, either alone or in combination with one or more other races. In 2010, 55 percent of the black population lived in the South, and 105 Southern counties had a black population of 50 percent or higher.
Of the total U.S. population of 308.7 million on April 1, 2010, 38.9 million people, or 13 percent, identified as black alone. In addition, 3.1 million people, or 1 percent, reported as black in combination with one or more other races. Together, these two groups comprise the black alone-or-in-combination population and totaled 42.0 million.
The black alone-or-in-combination population grew by 15 percent from 2000 to 2010, while the black alone population grew by 12 percent compared with a 9.7 percent growth rate for the total U.S. population.
Black and White Multiple-Race Population More Than Doubled
People who reported their race as both black and white more than doubled from about 785,000 in 2000 to 1.8 million in 2010. This groups share of the multiple-race black population increased from 45 percent in 2000 to 59 percent in 2010.
Majority of the Black Population Lived in the South
Compared with 2000, the percentage of the black alone-or-in-combination population increased in the South, stayed about the same in the West, and decreased in the Northeast and the Midwest. Of all respondents who reported black in 2010, 55 percent lived in the South, 18 percent in the Midwest, 17 percent in the Northeast and 10 percent in the West.
The percentage of the black alone population also increased in the South, from 55 percent in 2000 to 57 percent in 2010, whereas it decreased in the Northeast and the Midwest. The black alone-or-in-combination population comprised 50 percent or more of the total population in 106 counties. All these counties were in the South except for the city of St. Louis, which is considered a county equivalent. In contrast, 62 percent of all counties had less than 5 percent of the population identified as black. These patterns were similar for the black alone population.
Concentrations of blacks outside of the South tended to be in counties within metropolitan areas. There were 317 counties where the black alone-or-in-combination population was 25.0 to 49.9 percent of the population, and only 17 of these counties were not in the South. Of these 17, 15 were in metropolitan areas.
Multiple-Race Black Population More Geographically Dispersed
A considerably higher percentage of the multiple-race black population lived in the West (23 percent), relative to the black alone population (9 percent). While a large percentage of the multiple-race black population lived in the South (36 percent), this was much lower than the black alone population (57 percent).
About 60 Percent of Blacks Lived in 10 States
The 10 states with the largest black alone-or-in-combination populations in 2010 were New York (3.3 million), Florida (3.2 million), Texas (3.2 million), Georgia (3.1 million), California (2.7 million), North Carolina (2.2 million), Illinois (2.0 million), Maryland (1.8 million), Virginia (1.7 million) and Ohio (1.5 million). Among these states, four experienced substantial growth between 2000 and 2010. The black alone-or-in-combination population in Florida grew by 29 percent, Georgia by 28 percent, Texas by 27 percent and North Carolina by 21 percent.
Of the 10 states above, nine also had the largest black alone populations. The state with the 10th largest black alone population was Louisiana (1.5 million), replacing Ohio (1.4 million). Similar to the black alone-or-in-combination population, the black alone population also experienced considerable growth in Florida, Georgia, Texas and North Carolina.
The District of Columbia, which is treated as a state equivalent in this report, had the highest percentage of blacks alone-or-in-combination among states, with 52 percent in 2010, even though this population decreased by 10 percent between 2000 and 2010. Similar findings were also observed for the black alone population.
Detroit had the Highest Percentage of Blacks Among Largest Places
Among places with populations of 100,000 or more, the highest percentage of blacks alone-or-in-combination was found in Detroit (84 percent), followed by Jackson, Miss. (80 percent), Miami Gardens, Fla. (78 percent) and Birmingham, Ala. (74 percent). These four places also had the highest percentage of the black alone population.
Race Definitions
People who reported only one race on their 2010 Census questionnaire are referred to as the racealone population. For example, respondents who marked only the black or African American category would be included in the black alone population. This population can be viewed as the minimum number of people reporting black.
Individuals who chose more than one of the six race category options on the 2010 Census form are referred to as the race in combination population. One way to define the black population is to combine those respondents who reported black alone with those who reported black in combination with one or more other races. Another way to think of the black alone-or-in-combination population is the total number of people who reported black, whether or not they reported any other races.
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/2010_census/cb11-cn185.html
http://demographics.coopercenter.org/DotMap/
Taking this information into consideration, and allowing for the fact that not all the white people in the south are racist, or even Republican, then figuring in the the growing Hispanic population in the region, it goes to show how small minded such broad-brush approach to the south really is.
The problem in the south is a system which marginalizes the voting power of the non-white and non-Republican voters. This is what people should be ranting about and working to change. Not wasting their time bashing all the people who live in the region. A lot of the people who live there are fighting daily for change, but rather than offering understanding and help in their plight some people want to generalize and ridicule the entire region so they can feel better about where they live. It's a classic example of "screw you, I've got mine."
I appreciate every Democrat who lives in the south and works to help change the system there into one which is representative of the the actual population of the south. I know it's not an easy task, and I know you must get discouraged when you see the generalizations being used against you. You're a tough bunch, though. Just keep on working for what's right and ignore the fools who don't bother to let facts get in the way of their opinions.
geardaddy
(24,936 posts)There were lynchings here in Minnesota in 20s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_Duluth_lynchings
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)marble falls
(57,666 posts)stage left
(2,967 posts)I'm a Palmetto state native and I consider myself as liberal as it gets. My sister is the same. We've been unfriended a bunch on face book. And unfriended a few, cause you know, who needs to see all that right wing fundamental, racist BS.
ErikJ
(6,335 posts)And both those demographs are much more socially conservative. Probably more religious because of all the tornados , hurricanes and floods they suffer.
Thespian2
(2,741 posts)Right On!
I have been tired of it all my adult life...before college, I didn't realize we were considered ignorant rednecks living in trailer parks...by people in other parts of the country who were totally ignorant of "southern people"...
George II
(67,782 posts)kcr
(15,331 posts)or did I miss all the news articles about the black churches burning down in Massachusetts? Was I imagining things, or is Massachusetts not refusing to remove a confederate flag from their statehouse?
George II
(67,782 posts)....ways of exhibiting or living racism, and Eastern Massachusetts is VERY racist.
Look up the story of Charles Stuart and the reaction to his wife's murder.
Do you know who the last baseball team was to hire a black player? The Boston Red Sox, TWELVE years after Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier.
They aren't recent, but representative.
kcr
(15,331 posts)That's the point. They also don't just happen for no reason.
malaise
(269,366 posts)Rec
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)and while I really really hate the Florida Stars and bars folks, I will be the first to say I get annoyed when people make the annual "let's saw away Florida jokes, when we, the swing state, got off our ass and won the last twop presidnetial elections, making us as much as BLUE state as any.
treestar
(82,383 posts)In what way are we allowed to discuss the region's tendencies? Are we to ignore history and treat the South like it doesn't exist now as an entity? Seems it would also then be impermissible to discuss how red say Utah is. There are liberals in any red state.
If someone speaks of a state as a state or a region as such, they mean as a state as in Texas is red. That means Texas is red. It does not mean every Texan is red.
Only Southerners are this sensitive. The South as a region is conservative. We all know that doesn't mean every single Southerner.
kcr
(15,331 posts)And it's ridiculous. It should be discussed, otherwise nothing changes. Southerners aren't the only ones who are sensitive (#notallmen) but they are among the worst.
MadLinguist
(793 posts)The OP distinctly did *NOT* say that differences should not be discussed.
The OP asked that you make further distinctions than "the South", and "The North" etc.
kcr
(15,331 posts)There's no need to derail the discussion in such a manner. When I lived in the south for 15 years I didn't insist that I be recognized and acknowledged as a non-racist and that there are racists in other places every time the region was discussed. It isn't necessary just as it isn't necessary every time any other problem is addressed.
GaYellowDawg
(4,452 posts)"Some."
I'm asking for just a little less generalization. Look, I fully acknowledge that there's a very considerable amount of ignorance and racism down here. I think, for a lot of Southerners that get on this board, that DU feels like an oasis where we can come and be amongst others who think like we do and understand our reasons for doing so. We'd like to not see posts that include us amongst the very things we oppose at the very time we're trying to escape them online. I don't understand why that's unreasonable.
It isn't necessary.
GaYellowDawg
(4,452 posts)Not unless you care about things like common courtesy.
You have every right to be a complete jerk to people who ask you not to be. But it's going to be difficult to take anything you have to say about prejudice seriously when you are so steeped in your own.
GaYellowDawg
(4,452 posts)I'm not demanding. I'm asking. I even said "please." I've got a reply a little further down in this sub-thread that explains my viewpoint in a little more detail.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)My hubby is a good southern liberal and I'm a good northern liberal. Half of both of our families are liberal and the other half conservative. Even in families beliefs can differ radically.
We need to stop looking at each other in terms of what separates us and begin looking at each other as what connects us. Of course the Economic Royalists would rather divide us than unite us; they have a large vested interest in keeping us fighting and hating.
When the majority sees this they will find a way to unite.
totodeinhere
(13,059 posts)Probably almost everyone you know thinks like you do. But I have to respect our progressive brethren in the South for fighting the good fight when they are often outnumbered.
NikolaC
(1,276 posts)I posted something along the lines of what you said in response to another thread, based upon my own experiences living in different areas, but it fell flat. I totally agree with you that there are some really good, caring liberals who live in the South and it is unfair to paint everyone in an area with such a broad brush. Racism and bigotry are everywhere, even in areas that have been long thought to be bastions of liberalism.
prayin4rain
(2,065 posts)they voted in George Bush.
saidsimplesimon
(7,888 posts)I was born, spent my first 10 years in the divided states of KY and TN. Yellow is for cowards, so I reckon.
You are all brave American souls, keep standing up for our shared values of justice and peace. We are all citizens of the world. That's if we are enlightened by the many tragedies that have fractured our Union.
GaYellowDawg
(4,452 posts)A "yellow dog Democrat" came from the saying that many Southerners would "vote for a yellow dog before they would vote for any Republican." I think it originated in the 1890's. Of course, the parties have flip-flopped with respect to social issues, and many down here are really "yellow dog Republicans" now. Not me. I'm a modern-day yellow dog Democrat because I repudiate all of the conservatism and bigotry that the modern Republican Party represents. And I stuck "Dawg" in there because I'm a University of Georgia graduate and huge Dawg fan. But thank you very much for your compliment.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)simply bigotry imo
pa28
(6,145 posts)I've been involved with Democratic party and Democratic politics for a long time. It seems to me we've developed a very strong cultural bias against the south, against flyover country or anything not considered of any electoral importance.
Right here on this board somebody told me "you are from Oregon, who cares what you think". If that's conventional wisdom why are we surprised when red state Americans look for any excuse to vote against us?
Let's stop writing off the south. We have the right message and not everybody in the south fits that negative stereotype. They can be won if we ditch the arrogance and work for their votes.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)That catfish done stole my bait again!
cwydro
(51,308 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)You would have had to been there to understand.
DamnYankeeInHouston
(1,365 posts)I catch a lot of grief from my Boston/Vermont family for living in Texas. Houston has been good to me.
FlaGatorJD
(364 posts)It's against my nature to agree with a Dawg, but it's 100% on this one.
I haven't had sausage gravy in ages, but darn if you didn't make me crave some!
Maybe I'll pick up some boiled peanuts too.
My first ancestor arrived in Virginia in the early 1600's, and the family moved to McCrae, Georgia, in the early 1800's. So I'm "really" Southern.
So while I abhor slavery and the history of our race relations, it hurts me to the core when some people mindlessly bash my home and everything Southern.
Thanks again GaYellowDawg, and . . Go Gators!
TNNurse
(6,934 posts)I was born in GA, went to college in TN, lived very briefly in SC (and realized I was really in the south) and moved back to the TN mountains. I am a lifelong Democrat. I have never voted for a Republican for President and cannot imagine that I ever will. I have to vote for local Republicans sometimes but only because there are no Ds on the ballot.
I have a BA in sociology and a BSN and have recently retired as an RN after 36 years. I lived briefly in a trailer (that was in SC).
My family is educated, my friends are educated. We are not bigots, we are kind and mostly work in those helping professions....you know nurses, teachers....Actually my husband is also an RN.
We do not attend church but were raised in church and pretty much live by those values we were taught there.
So, when people start a post with "those southerners", and are generalizing narrow racist traits, please remember you are not describing me or GaYellowDawg. I think you should know that.
Again, thank you, I think you stated our case quite well.
luvspeas
(1,883 posts)you are where you are needed most. keep up the good fight!
Duppers
(28,134 posts)Therefore, I feel I've the right to bash as much as I like. I'm sick of the crap I hear and see across the South and from most all of my relatives. I grew up in the same environment and I was not deceived by revisionist history or even their fundamentalist religions. I grew sick of heated arguments and being called names. I've ended friendships with all of my conservative friends and have accepted being ostracized as a black sheep. Fuck 'em, all of them. And I have NO problem with any DUers bashing the South. Most DUers know that does not universally apply to all southerners.
Yes, it's obviously NOT ALL SOUTHERNERS, (as you, i, and many other DUers are proof of) are ignorant bigots but there are enough, a high percentage, to warrant using the usual labels. I'm sorry you feel offended. I don't. I feel as if I'm from the South but not of the South.
Just consider how the South votes, as a block, and what kind of clown car jokers they send to Capitol Hill.
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)I grew up in Alabama, and lived there for decades. I've been working in CT recently and in the last month I've heard the N word more than I heard it in the last twenty years. I reckon they hear the accent and assume I'm racist too. It doesn't take them long to realize they made a mistake.
I think the issue is we've got a 60/40ish mix in both places....60 racists/40 nonracists in the South, the other direction in the North. The thing is, in the South, we're winning slowly but surely. The ratio is changing. Within the next decade or two, racists won't see it as a place they can run their mouths with impunity anymore.
The trailer thing is just pure classism. We don't mind poor people, long as y'all keep 'em where we can't see 'em.
tymorial
(3,433 posts)You'll probably get reactionary defensive responses but I think what you said needed to be said. I would also point out that there are MANY places in the north that have the same problems. They aren't integrated and some of the people hold the same bigoted and ignorant ideology as those you describe. I'm glad you posted this.
paulkienitz
(1,296 posts)as is shown by the trends showing states like Georgia and Texas threatening to tip blue in a decade or so, and states like Virginia and North Carolina already in the process of doing so.
Not to mention the courage of older southern liberals like Tom Turnipseed (raised as a segregationist) and Jim Hightower. Not to mention Jimmy Carter.
raven mad
(4,940 posts)My daughter was born in Alabama, and lives in Alabama. Alaska is a lot like the South, in that we are reviled as bespoilers of all land, air, sea, riverine, etc.
We aren't. My daughter is a dynamic young businesswoman with a daughter of her own, who is going to be just as great.
Having lived deep South for a long time, I respect and admire its people and their sense of history.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)...or DUers.
It's not the South we hate. It's the voting habits of the South which has caused a tremendous amount of sorrow and misery for the rest of the nation.
People find it hard to forgive and forget when a group of people consistently take away happiness from others.
I live in the South and I don't blame them at all. We here deserve it.
Anybody here that thinks the South is blameless needs the think about the chimpanzee we had for a President.
...and about all the innocent people that the South directly helped send to their deaths.
progressoid
(50,034 posts)I believe the plural of y'all is all y'all.
Also rec'd because I know plenty of bigoted, racist, ignorant, stupid people up here too.
prayin4rain
(2,065 posts)is more of a movie thing, unless being used to clarify a previous y'all.
For example:
Us: Y'all need to stop overgeneralizing southerners.
Y'all: Who needs to stop?
Us: All y'all!
Haha
GaYellowDawg
(4,452 posts)I have to say, though, living in NE TN, middle TN, middle GA, and Savannah, that I've never seen a native southerner use "y'all" as a singular pronoun. I've always experienced it as "you" for singular, "y'all" for plural, and "all y'all" for everybody within shouting distance. For example:
"Hey, you. Come on over, let's talk for a second. I'd appreciate it if y'all would stop tossing your beer cans on the ground. If you'd like, I've got a trash bag that all y'all can use."
progressoid
(50,034 posts)But my aunt from NC told me it's not the same everywhere. In fact, I'm not sure I actually heard anyone say it when we were there (Nashville).
Orsino
(37,428 posts)"All y'all" is even more plural.
kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)fadedrose
(10,044 posts)are just like "some" southerners.
We just have to live with them, north or south. Listen to the call-ins on Span in the morning - what you'll hear from the north ain't any better...
Damansarajaya
(625 posts)and far between too.
We gotta stick together.
nightscanner59
(802 posts)Even here in "liberal" California are pockets of conservative goofballs. Just that we outnumber them to keep fairly sane politicians in office. I tip my hat to you fighting the good fight with your voting and gently persuading backwards hearts and minds.
I often think it can be easily misunderstood to take it personally when generalizing about the embarrassing actions of those in the public eye. My secondary "retirement" home in Arizona... ugh, they give me the chills, but know there are many liberal folks there that just can't outvote hoardes of old Fox-news faithful snowbirds that flock there at election time... and to be at the Quartzsite "big event" each november. My late parents were part of their numbers, and they kept their voter registrations in Az just for that purpose.
So thousands of good Arizona liberal folks have to live in utterly depraved working conditions the winter visitors are partially responsible for inflicting on them.
My cousins in Texas are about evenly divided about politics. Guess which ones have college degrees?
And, after all, where did most of the population of Southern California come from? Dust bowl...
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)but wiped off face of earth. Sorry. I don't take the criticism personally. But I prefer the criticism to right wing applause/support.
mwooldri
(10,305 posts)South of England though... but NC is my home now.
The South of England and the South of the USA have one thing politically in common: it's too "right wing". Though socially speaking you can't compare a Tory to a Republican - as it was a Tory who championed equal marriage in the UK (PM Cameron). Fiscally they both stink...
It is "some southerners" but it seems to me that some southerners are more vocal than others. The (social) liberals keep quiet and speak through their actions. Those more "Conservative" are definitely heard.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)I think it's interesting that the modern songwriters who have written with the greatest sensitivity toward the south, (Robbie Robertson and Neil Young) are both Canadians, who in theory should be neutral.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)If the american revolution had failed, we'd look to our british government as confederates view the US.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)the fact that being a liberal in the south is tough. Hate will not win.
ladyVet
(1,587 posts)you get the same "but, we're not saying this about all Southerners!" response. Except, when these threads and posts come around, no distinction is made. It's always a general, broad brush that is waved over an entire region, as hatefully as possible.
You want to be mad at someone? Be mad at the corporations that use their money to push an agenda that gets people fired up for the wrong things. Get mad at the people who push for lower education standards, so people don't have the thinking skills to realize they are being used. Be mad at the corporate-owned politicians -- just as many "up North" as down here, who kowtow to their masters and ruin the entire nation for profit.
Instead of writing off an entire region, work to make things better. Work to educate people about the world, about how money in politics works, about how people claim to be Christians and never seem to follow the teachings, but encourage hate and bigotry.
But while we're on the subject of bashing people, can we lay off the poor, the fat and the disabled as well? Because gods help you if you fall into any of the "wrong" categories here, if you live in the wrong place because you can't afford to move somewhere with jobs and public transportation, because there are lots of people who hold you in complete contempt. Until they want your vote, of course. Then we're good enough, at least until the elections are over.
whatthehey
(3,660 posts)I see it all the time from various subgroups, and they are all straining at gnats looking for insults where none is present.
Let's make this national to illustrate the point and be more universal.
Americans re-elected Obama in 2012. True statement of course. But nigh 50% voted otherwise. Americans taken as a singular group, reflecting the general attributers of the nation as a whole certainly re-elected him though. Saying "some Americans" would be twee and snide at best, and no responsible foreign media would use that expression, whereas the wording I suggested can be found many many times.
America is a nation struggling with obesity. True also, including a majority of all US men. That doesn't mean there aren't enough lean Americans to repopulate the entirety of the UK and have enough left over for two Canadas.
The issue here is that the collective generic is a perfectly valid way to describe group differences. Men are more murderous than women but Jain men and Aileen Wuornos still exist. Dutch people speak more languages than Americans, but exceptions either way could populate cities.
Ther really is no genuine need for a "some" in such a sentence and using it would be at best awkward and at worst misleading. It's a sentence describing a holistic, collective generalization and is properly understood as such rather than applying equally to every single individual member of that collective independently. I live in KY for example. Kentucky is a reliably Republican state in the GE. Kentucky will support the Rep candidate in 2016, I can all but guarantee that. I can absolutely guarantee I and many many more will not, but we won't stop the larger collective group from going Rep. It's perfectly appropriate then to say "Kentuckians support Republican presidential candidates" even when a huge number of us don,t, simply because the collective group does.
The same can be said with equal accuracy annd equal inapplicability to each individual subcomponent about Southerners, whites, men, religious Christian, rural dwellers, the rich (why is that never controversial here for example ? Isn't it SOME rich if it should be SOME southerners?), etc etc. What the collective group does, does not constrain or even imply about the actions of all its cxonstituent members.
Ask yourselves how awkward it would sound to always insist on "SOME of the Supreme Court made marriage equality national on 6/26". It's precisely, exactly, the same as worrying about "Southerners".
GaYellowDawg
(4,452 posts)The Supreme Court and elections are not good examples, as both are votes upon which a singular decision is made. In those cases, one understands that differences exist. My request involves blanket statements about the region. These imply that all Southerners are the same. Southerners are trash. The South should just secede, we wouldn't miss them. The South is a bunch of welfare states that bring down the nation. Ad infinitum.
A "sentence describing a holistic, collective generalization" already has a definition: stereotype. We all know how constructive those are. All I've asked is one word, four letters. I'll reduce that even further. One word, four letters, in the post title. Takes about one second if you're decent on a keyboard. It would make a big difference in how a lot of Southerners feel here. Note I didn't say "how Southerners feel here" as that obviously does not include you - but then again, I'm not trying to lump you in where you don't want to be.
Uncle Joe
(58,597 posts)Marriage Equality was decided by the fantastic five.
You don't have to use "some," adjectives work wonders "conservatives" in the South being a prime example.
You might have to add a few extra words to make your point but A. it's far more accurate and B. less likely to cause collateral damage.
In the game of politics numbers matter especially when the almighty dollar is stacked against us.
Phentex
(16,334 posts)we can see this thread a few more times as well.
Hosnon
(7,800 posts)This topic comes up all the time and has for years. It's beyond pathetic that DU hasn't matured out of region bashing.
If anything makes me delete my account, it'll be this issue.