has answered--why Greece instead of Bulgaria and Romania?

Is it just because they have a more romantic history and are a bigger tourist destination?

There are poor people in Germany, especially in the East. The integration of West and East Germany is a decades-long project that is far from complete.

Is the default and abolishment of all debt.

Debt is only a tool of the elitist aristocracy to maintain control of people and their governments. To ensure huge incomes to the top of the 1 percenters and to exploit people for their basic needs and further enslave the working class.

All debts forgiven! All debts washed away. We the have given the super wealthy enough money already. They dont need anymore! It is time to say enough! No more! You will no longer take from me in pursuit of your greed!

how do businesses grow and expand?

And if people are in need you give expecting nothing in return. Greed is not good. But giving is very good. And the super weathly should give freely and we all help eachother instead of exploiting eachother.

I am the one assuming the risk and it may be the choice that makes most sense. I have taken out and payed back numerous loans in my life with no problems. What does it matter to you?

There may be a system of debt with small person to person loans with simple interest that can be put in place. But this system of usury interest rates and compound interest is nothing but a system of exploitation. The powerful taking advantage of the needy.

It matters to me because staying in this current system it continues the destructive exploitive policies that ultimately makes only the rich richer the top 1% of the 1%. It ruins peoples lives, prepetuates greed, misery, discontent, strips freedoms, and enslaves huge portions of the globe. Ending this madness should matter to everyone.

certainly you have not explained how we would transition from one scheme to the other without harming millions of Americans or damaging our economy. It will take more than hand waving and a sweetly murmured "trust me" before I put my economic security in your hands.

First forgiving all debts would greatly relieve pressure from hard working americans. No more mortgage your house is yours. No more car payment your car is yours. No more credit card payments.

We nationalize the banks we already bought them in 2008. We seize the assets of the exploiting class and we redistrubute that wealth to all people.

We break up multinational corps we focus on local goods and services. With the new prosperity fund of the money stolen from the people given back to the people this will open new opportunities for innovation and new businesses we havent even imagined yet.

Sure there will be growing pains but nothing good comes easy.

what then? Companies need credit on a daily basis to operate. Why do you think an entire economy can change it's business model overnight without a massive dislocation?

What about all those people that do not own houses? How are they going to ever buy one if they have to pay cash? Who is going to buy my house so I can buy a new one when I move? What makes you think I can put down $25,000 in cash to buy a new car when my present car dies? Do you think I am wealthy?

You are keeping yourself inside the box of this construct that debt is necessary. It is not necessary it is only a tool of exploitation.

When we level the playing field and truly treat eachother as equals and stop exploiting our neighbors for monetary gain the levels of prosperity (in a non monetary and monetary way) could be quite surprising.

you have to provide detailed answers before I say yes. You need to guarantee me that my standard of living will not change. You have to guarantee me that what little wealth I have spent a lifetime accumulating will not disappear. You have to guarantee me that my job will not disappear.

And taxes some say. (Of course the one percenters are always trying to find ways around those).


In our current system of debt and exploitation none of that is guaranteed either and could be gone in a blink of an eye.

it has served me well.

Believe it or not, most of us like aspects of the current system. Most of us have children and can afford to raise and care for them by virtue of loans, not a subsistence economy.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]“If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.”
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)[/center][/font][hr]

You think everything is fine in the illusionary world of debt and exploitation. Until the next crash or the next round of layoffs and your entire world comes crashing in and then what have we left our children nothing but debt and destruction.

Ding.

Ruins your life. Takes your home, ruins your credit so you cant even rent another home or find another good paying job. thank goodness we have a safety net in this country that government can assist some people but they still dont help everyone.

Another Ding.

The world runs on money whether you believe in it or not. That's not the same thing as saying money trumps everything. It doesn't. But I sure work for a living to provide for my daughters and I'm not willing to tell them to quit what they're doing and grab a plowshare.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)[/center][/font][hr]

Union pension plans have billions of dollars invested, a lot of it in bonds (debt).

Your plan will destroy every union pension plan overnight, collapse every bank (since my mortgage is debt to the bank), and the US dollar will crash as they default on their debts. I wouldn't owe any money, but I wouldn't have any money myself, and we would be in a great depression.

Sure there will be a transition period but the overall prosperity for all people not just the 1 percent will
will improve greatly.

The only people that will ultimately be impacted negatively would be the 1 percent of the 1 percent aristocratic elitist exploiter class.

There might be prosperity from somebody who is young and can work, but I guess if you are 80, retirement is canceled. Hopefully the pretzel place at the mall is hiring.

I doubt a pension AND social security add up to median income level for most retirees. If lucky, their mortgage is paid off. That still puts them far below the 1%.

People on union pensions are in the top 1%????????

I pointed out that wiping out all debt overnight would destroy union pension plans overnight.

The person responded to me that it would only affect the 1%

My response was disagreeing with him, as every pension plan in the country would go belly up, and all pension payments would end overnight.

Do you realize how much debt is held by pension funds?

Already most every pension has been converted to 401k so the super wealthy can invest other peoples money and get even wealthier on it.

It answers the question of have they actually thought through the real world implications of their proposal.

It's nothing more than ill-advised fantasy.

But ask yourself how many things 100 years ago were fantasies that are reality now.

I cant believe a supposedly progressive message board supports a system meant to do nothing but take from the needy and give to the greedy.

Most people do not even understand what they give up when they sign 30 years of their life away to a bank. They think i need a house they need to support their family this is the only way. Ill get equity that i can borrow against.

These banksters ruin peoples lives daily, they have no care no emotion. In 2008 the taxes payers gave them billions if not trillions and they still foreclosed on these same tax payers homes and kicked them on the street.

Its disgusting we allow the rich to exploit the people the way they do and the we have apologist defend them saying there is no other way. Well there is another way. We just have to open our eyes and see it.

We then nationalize the banks we bought back in 2008 with the bank bailouts. We take all money from the wealthy that was achieved through the stealing of natural resources, exploiting people through debt and other illegal and nonlegitiment means and we redistribute that wealth to the people. That right there would be a very good start.

You realize that bank accounts are form of debt, right?

I grow you food you fix my car. I paint your house you paint my car. Quid pro quo definately neighbor helping neighbor exchanging goods and services from the goodness of their heart.

People will work and be compensated.

I know we keep using cars as an example but mass transit would be better ultimately.

Like Bob Dylan said "I can walk anytime around the block"

But people will be much more prosperous then they are now by erasing debt which is nothing but redistribution of wealth to the top of the one percent.

No a single payer options where healthcare is a right for all is what is needed.

The problem is most of our debt is owed to ourselves.

On a smaller scale, I truly am in debt to myself. The system makes it the best way for me to do some things business wise.

recovery. It is not about being poor or rich but between forced austerity (mostly on the poor) and spending programs that get the economy going again. Between trickle down and social justice.

I guess we will find out.

That's how Greece was in the time of the Persian empire. They'll struggle mightily, but Greece will survive.

They've lasted this long.

If you're 'far poorer', I'm not sure exactly why you think other people should be that poor. Wouldn't it be better if, instead, Bulgaria were also the target of stimulus packages from the richer countries, rather than boasting about being in poverty?

Which is probably a fair question.

Paying less in taxes than they get back in services from the feds.

And the money going to Greece is money that could be going to them instead.