It's the actual battle flag that was there, not the racist flag that got popular in the 50s/60s.

Like it or not, it 'became' a Confederate fort.

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I am not defending the Confederacy or the racist flag that we all hate, so don't bother flaming me. I'm not painting that rag as anyone's 'heritage.'

The uncomfortable truth is this is a museum as much as a national park.



Again, full disclaimer, I'm not supporting the Confederate flag but I do think it has a place in museums that educate Americans.

the second flag from the right is the only flag that was ever flown at the Ft. taking all down is the right thing,,,,, any historiacal thingy doesn't have to be the flag of the defeated traitors.

Sigh.

Well, social media and stuff. Important!

We decry Americans ignorant of history and context, and yet here we all are, eh?

I think we should ban books on Southern History. Just to fuckin show those rednecks.

from Fort Sumter?

*DERP*

A major site of Civil War history.

It's one thing to decry "heritage" from statehouses - I agree those flags have no place on public, democratic grounds.

But we're now scrubbing it from a historical site with actual Civil War history?

This is what happens when emotional stupidity is allowed to dictate policy.

If the flag came down by order of the National Parks Service, that means it's a national park.

"public, democratic grounds," in other words.

So.

People who want to scrub history automatically go in the suspicion book. I don't trust people who think a lie is more comfortable than an abrasive truth.

That's why we have museums and libraries.

You have a suspicion book?

It's entitled the "3rd Volume of the Fuckin Goofy"

But, yes, I consider Fort Sumter a museum. Scrubbing a museum is heinous.

You're right, in my opinion, to a point. It *is* a museum. The flag should be under glass inside, along with all the other relics. Flying it, however, is freighted with connotations best left under that glass. It's a national park, too, and those get the Stars and Stripes. My opinion only.

But I feel you, I completely do. I love good conversations on this board. Thanks, Prism.

over it. The Confederate battle flag is preserved in a museum at the site, as an artifact of history, along with photos and other documents related to the war years.

As federal property, the Confederate flag has no business flying over it.

You have it exactly right, Sir WilliamPitt. That flag belongs in Civil War-era games, history books, and old photographs of Klan rallies.

But at the hallowed ground of Fort Sumter? Display it inside, under glass--not outside, snapping proudly in the breeze atop a flagpole planted in the ground where Union soldiers were fired upon by seditious rebels.

Common sense--one would think . . .

Tear them all down, IMO.

But sites of historical import? Yes, portray that. The South conquered the fort (poor Anderson who was awesome). It's part of our history. We fought over it. Depict that.

Anywhere else? No.

But there? Yes, it's fine. It's telling a story. We shouldn't whitewash the stories of where we were and how we got here.

Then the only flag that should be flying over it is the American flag that depicted how many states the US had at that time.

As it was an American island that the confederates wanted/needed, so they fired the 1st shot on it.

. . . a federal fort that was forced into surrender by an insurrection of traitorous forces, stands as a denial of the historical fact that the rebellion attempt was unsuccessful.

Is there someone, anywhere, who isn't aware that federal forces eventually retook the Fort after Sherman took Charleston?

Honestly. Who is in denial that the federal government reclaimed the fort? Name names.

"Who is in denial that the federal government reclaimed the fort?"

One might imagine they are the same under-educated individuals who believe the history of not merely Fort Sumter, but the Civil War as a whole cannot be told unless a confederate battle flag is concurrently flying; and that by simply removing the colored bit of cloth from public grounds, history can no longer be taught with any degree of accuracy.

Honestly.

!!!

Just trying to follow your logic there.

I mean, it is exactly the same logic: control of site x by party y = their flag should fly over the site, to help people better understand the history of that particular place.

In a word: no.

In the War of 1812, the British captured the White House. Do you think the Union Jack should be flying there?

Haven't heard what they expect developers to replace it with. No flag at all for the Confederacy, even though that's completely anti-historical?

They made it clear: historical use in games was perfectly acceptable. They over-reacted in the heat of the moment.

On that note, while I'm sure Tim Cook's heart was in the right place, I'm not sure how I would feel as an Apple employee if my CEO is that rash and reactive in his decisions. I'd be a little fearful for the future of the company.

What we really need is for anti-intellectuals to stand aside and retire relics into places like memorials as a reminder of what not to ever do again. War memorials, museums etc.

I'll leave everyone to argue about what is and is not a museum/memorial.

or one size fits all answer to this. I appreciate the NPS plan, but the fort is a museum and is a critical part of the history of that awful time.

It pains me to say put that flag back up. I hate it with all my heart and know that people today use it for awful things and yes, even murder. However, it belongs on Fort Sumter and maybe a very few other places. We do not need to forget what happened, and people need to still learn history.

Other relics of that era? There could be an explanation of where the design came from.

I see no reason to fly it at a national park as if it is still an icon of the property. We don't fly the flag of Great Britain at our parks.

Instead of flying it, they should show it in some kind of display inside, among other things. Flying it and having it on display in a museum settings are two different things.

On second thought, this one looks promising, maybe I'll hang out a bit longer.

The fort was surrendered back to the Union in 1865.

We won it back in a war fair and square.

That treason flag should have been used for toilet paper by the Union soldiers.

For all the symbolism in the world, only the Stars and Stripes should fly at Ft. Sumpter evermore. It's strange to me that people have such devotion to their lost cause. These Southern Confederates included several of my gg-grandfathers. I don't feel all yammy about them or their "heritage" so to speak. In fact, I have read some of their wills and I was ashamed of them. I once thought that only the plantation owners and well-to-do had slaves. Not so, I've seen wills from average farmers, and they would have a small number of slaves too. That society was sick to the core, and they thought they were the best of God-fearing Christians.

has finally been completed.

NOW, we have taken Fort Sumter, and it is about damned time!

:: ::

President and our country.

Screw them and their freaking wank off flag. This is the best thing ever, to the museum with ye!