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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJon Stewart told Daily Show writer to "f*** off" after racial conversation
A former correspondent and writer for Comedy Centrals The Daily Show has disclosed that he and its host, Jon Stewart, engaged in a heated argument about a segment perceived as racially insensitive. In his recounting, the correspondent, Wyatt Cenac, who is black, said Mr. Stewart became defensive and frequently shouted expletives.
Full story:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/25/arts/television/daily-show-writer-recalls-heated-dispute-with-jon-stewart.html?_r=0
I never liked Jon, and it's never been a secret that he's an asshole who reacts poorly to being challenged.
ForgoTheConsequence
(4,869 posts)HES A RACIST
I NEVER LIKE HIM
I ALWAYS KNEW HE WAS A RACIST
Keep eating your own liberals. No wonder we never get anywhere.
cilla4progress
(24,802 posts)Who am I to judge? If the insulted party is willing to move past it - not in me to bear a continuing negative view.
No one's perfect. Not even Jon Stewart.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)of how our society is racist, and because we all (or at least almost all of us) have learned everything we know within our society, any of us can have blind spots. We all probably do (though of course by definition we don't see them.)
It is not a good example of how to respond if someone points out a blind spot, but hopefully Jon Stewart has learned something from this experience.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)Black man has a stupid idea, white person mocks the idea (and also incidentally the person who proposed it). Supporters of the black man charge the white person with racism.
But it could even work the other way. Black man has a good idea, but not everybody likes it, some attack it and some oppose it. They, if they have white skin, might be called racists.
Heck, I don't totally disagree with Cain. 2,700 pages? Who has time to read that? Particularly when it is written in legalese. Especially when the legalese requires you to have an entire book of US law.
How many times have I tried to read a bill only to have it say "the bill modifies the Revenue Act of 1986 part 3 subsection C ...." and I am like, oh FFS now I have to look up the Revenue Act of 1986 to see what the hell that subsection USED to say.
How can citizens possibly stay informed, especially when there is so much bullsh*tting and demagoguery going on? All these charges of racism just seem to add to the noise, but I guess black people get mileage out of it, and even white people can use it to attack their enemies.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)piggy-backer on an artistic, very creative temperament.
At the university I attended, there was an extremely gifted orchestra conductor. He was great at his job. But when he approached an elevator, all the students evacuated that small enclosure immediately. Nobody even wanted to be in the elevator with him. It was his way or the highway. Jon Stewart may be difficult. Just possibly. I don't know him from Adam as a person, but he may be moody and prone to all kinds of outbursts -- angry, joyful, creative, insightful but unexpected.
Jon Stewart should apologize and that should be that. It may just be his personality. To be a comedian (and I know some good ones), you have to be able to detach yourself from what is going on and look at it as though you were outside it, above it or beyond it and then that situation seems funny and you see the humor and can communicate it. Some of the comedians I know, good ones, tend to actually be a bit depressed.
So I would not jump to the conclusion that Jon Stewart is a racist based on this. He is probably just rather quick tempered. He has too many vignettes on his show that ridicule racism, and he has too many really good Black comedians on his show to be a racist.
We have lots of overly temperamental folks of all colors, shapes and sizes on DU. We accept and love all of them, I hope.
But still Jon Stewart should apologize.
brush
(53,978 posts)Like you said, Stewart has skewered racists with great wit too many times to, IMO, fall into acting out that behavior himself.
I'll give him the benefit of doubt as that artistic temperment can sometimes manifest itself as stubborn, unyielding and unable to see that everything you come up with is not brilliant, which is why you have staff.
Kudos to Cenac for pointing out his doubts to Stewart, and kudos for Stewart in finally seeing he overreacted.
Logical
(22,457 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)brush
(53,978 posts)also the greatest asshole of them all in his treatment of women.
Like you said, sometimes it come with the territory.
6000eliot
(5,643 posts)[link:
|brush
(53,978 posts)maybe you don't know his history with women.
He was, like I said, the greatest artist of the 20th century but he treated women like crap.
6000eliot
(5,643 posts)Beartracks
(12,839 posts)Matariki
(18,775 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)away with a fit of temper often really can't help themselves. But letting your temper get the best of you is never the right thing to do. We see that so much on DU. No point in it. Look at the embarrassment to Jon Stewart having to admit that he was downright mean to someone. And look at the pain that the bad temper caused its victim.
All in all. Learning to control your temper is part of growing up. But a lot of very creative, artistic people are good at what they do because they look at the world like a child.
What to do about it? I do not know. It is what it is.
11 Bravo
(23,928 posts)other an unsubstantiated accusation?
Logical
(22,457 posts)oasis
(49,490 posts)I remember him going off on the hosts of "Crossfire" when he was a guest on their show many years ago.
brush
(53,978 posts)He criticized that creep Tucker Carlson for siding with the liars on the Iraq war.
So yeah, he can be volatile but I don't think he's a racist, and Cenac didn't call him a racist he just said he didn't realized the "Amos and Andyesque" quality of the bit he did had racial overtones in it's caricature.
oasis
(49,490 posts)need a little work, but, he's no racist.
P.s. Tucker Carlson
lame54
(35,349 posts)he couldn't wait to go on there and expose them
i call that a public service
Response to JDPriestly (Reply #4)
vaberella This message was self-deleted by its author.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)I mean, I don't know enough about the story to know one way or other. Stewart got pissed off and yelled. So? Maybe I, or any reasonable person would have gotten pissed off in the same situation. All we have is some guy telling a story for some reason. I am not even sure why this he said-he said should even be important enough for us to discuss.
But any time I hear a story which says "there was a heated EXCHANGE" and then they report "one person said X", I always have to wonder "well, what did the other person say before that?"
arcane1
(38,613 posts)GreatCaesarsGhost
(8,585 posts)uponit7771
(90,371 posts)Quayblue
(1,045 posts)brush
(53,978 posts)Cenac didn't call him a racist he just said Stewart didn't realized the "Amos and Andyesque" quality of the bit he did had racial overtones in it's caricature and didn't take well to the criticism of it.
vaberella
(24,634 posts)JI7
(89,289 posts)TheSarcastinator
(854 posts)...and people wonder why political and social progress in the US takes so goddamn long.....
City Lights
(25,171 posts)11 Bravo
(23,928 posts)a lot of time in Stewart's company! Of course, I suppose it's also remotely possible that they have never even shared a Zip Code.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)vaberella
(24,634 posts)They just stress that Wyatt Cenac is black. Why then should it automatically be understood that Cenac is crying racist. Listen, because we're black doesn't mean that we cry racism uselessly. And it"s not done here.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)"...engaged in a heated argument about a segment perceived as racially insensitive."
Beartracks
(12,839 posts)uponit7771
(90,371 posts)madville
(7,413 posts)vaberella
(24,634 posts)It's not a big deal though. But I can see Cenac's point.
GaYellowDawg
(4,452 posts)That's bullshit. Complete bullshit. There wasn't a whiff of racism in that segment. What Cain said was stupid and deserved to be mocked thoroughly.
vaberella
(24,634 posts)The racist overtone can be perceived by those who are willing to. For instance, we are talking about a Black male candidate who is said to not read. Something many blacks have faced, not to mention low literacy rate is endemic within the Black community to this day. So yeah...it is relevant, and I can see him mentioning that. Is a big of a deal in this context? I don't think so, but I can see many people being insulted by it.
you telling people to set off their high horse? Now THAT is rich.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)to read are disingenuous and simply must be looking for something to bitch about. Stewart is not making that broad brushed assessment. Wyatt did.
Skittles
(153,310 posts)I understand people are upset but behaving in a ridiculous manner does NOT help
GaYellowDawg
(4,452 posts)You said, "the racist overtone can be perceived by those who are willing to." Almost right. What you should have said is, "the racist overtone can be perceived by those who want to." In other words, it's crap. Not every charge of racism holds water no matter who presses it.
Oh, and sorry, I can't find my high horse. Do you have a clue where it is? Perhaps if I step back, you can help me find it; that is, when you're not using it.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Jon has made fun of W's ridiculous speech patterns and moronic behavior too.
Cenak was really looking to be offended by that. Or hey, maybe he's a Cain supporter.
Monk06
(7,675 posts)This is Kingfish
jazzimov
(1,456 posts)According to Cenak, he apologized to the staff and to him personally - and invited him to the last show.
vaberella
(24,634 posts)W/o even really focusing on the article or what was stated and w/o getting the full information accusations were automatically placed on Cenac that he was calling Jon Stewart a racist.
Because the man, Cenac, left the show and because it was mentioned that Cenac was Black, and because he clearly pointed out that something can be perceived as racially insensitive to Jon Stewart. Which later, presented Jon Stewart in a negative light.
People on this thread automatically attacked Cenac and claimed he was "crying racism." They heavily implied Cenac was pulling out the race card in their comments. Nothing was mentioned as racist or racism, but simply a disagreement and stressing that Cenac was Black perpetuated this sort of inappropriate backlash.
As a note...there are some people that call racism/racist needlessly. But it seems also that some White people are hypersensitive that when a Black person simply disagrees on something that might be "perceived" as racially sensitive they are screaming racism. That word is a loaded word, it has power, it has meaning, and significance.
It is not a joke. White people need to take a step back a bit and get a clue. We call it as we see it. I am not saying anyone on this thread is racist. But I am saying that I do note inappropriate racial overtones in some of the posts.
Skittles
(153,310 posts)that is not an invitation to an intelligent discussion
vaberella
(24,634 posts)I'm speaking on some of other posts on this thread.
Skittles
(153,310 posts)will get you comments like that.......
HELLO
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)Yup, there's no attack there......
People are objecting to the OP's inflammatory comments.
vaberella
(24,634 posts)You speak to the people on this thread as I am speaking to others on this thread. There are particular people I am speaking too which you can read for yourself. What does that have to my post.
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)....they tend to fan the flames of the replies.
People saw the OP piling on to Jon Stewart after the posted article and for the most part reacted to that....it seems pretty specious to tsk tsk repliers for being critical of Cenac while ignoring the fact the OP kicked off slamming Stewart with ad hom attacks.
GaYellowDawg
(4,452 posts)It is not a joke. White people need to take a step back a bit and get a clue. We call it as we see it. I am not saying anyone on this thread is racist. But I am saying that I do note inappropriate racial overtones in some of the posts.
Riiiiight. Race is the entire reason why people defended Jon Stewart. Because Jon Stewart hasn't been one of the single most important figures in the last quarter century attacking modern conservatism. Oh no, that guy isn't going to be vigorously defended on Democratic Underground. No one here likes him enough to lift a finger to defend him. It's definitely all about race.
That accusation is so full of crap that it squeaks. Maybe you need to get a clue. There was nothing racist about that segment. Cain said something stupid and got mocked. Just like Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, McCain, Trump, Palin, Bachmann, and a shitload of other white people. If any of them had said that, they would have been mocked. You might consider that, every once in a while, someone might actually be "crying racism." And perhaps that kind of false accusation might just warrant him being cursed out by Stewart and vilified here.
Call it as you see it. That's fine. But your response to other people calling it as they see it as "White people need to take a step back a bit and get a clue" strikes me as an inappropriate racial overtone.
vaberella
(24,634 posts)To men his segment was not over the top nor did I perceive it as racially insensitive, although I can understand the argument. My comment is to the people on this thread that started to vilify Cenac, where he in no way attacked Jon Stewart. This is because of three things, 1) it was stressed Cenac was black, 2) Cenac had a disagreement with Jon Stewart, or said to have had one (which is his right, 3) the accusation was that Cenac simply said that the segment might be perceived as racially insensitive.
None of the three things are wrong. However, there are posters here who got into a tizzy and implied Cenac is crying racism. And that is my issue. There was no reason for that and there is no proof he ever did. People should be focusing their issues with this accusation with the writer of the article. But instead they are attacking Cenac for nothing he did wrong.
My post stands.
GaYellowDawg
(4,452 posts)Because that would give you the context to know that Cenac's accusation - and the accusations you've been casting at other posters - are so much (high) horseshit. What Stewart has done (you know, context) is to manage to not be racist through a lot of years of political satire. What Stewart has done is to speak of racism in a fashion that has been pioneering for a white broadcaster.
What Cenac did was to compare that segment to Amos 'n' Andy. That goes beyond "racially insensitive." It's a gross mischaracterization of the segment and it certainly does imply racism.
Your post is a lot closer to lying than standing.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)or a very heated disagreement in which Stewart lost it. It is this Cenec's word against Stewart's. Even if it was a situation where Stewart lost it and got angry, obviously he should apologize. As others pointed out there is no reason to be an asshole. Then again arguing with your boss is not a good idea regardless of race. Cenec had several opportunities to state his opinion, but continued to argue with Stewart according to his own account following him into his office. That certainly doesn't put Cenec exactly in the right.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Response to wheniwasincongress (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
wheniwasincongress
(1,307 posts)them GOLDBERGs and SILVERSTEINS sure are difficult! Hell, if you have a GOLD, BERG, STEIN, or ITZ in your name, you're definitely an asshole!
Demonaut
(8,938 posts)nt
still_one
(92,526 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)On Sat Jul 25, 2015, 11:00 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
He always had that uppity I'm better than you attitude
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7010657
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Anti-Semite troll
JURY RESULTS
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Jul 25, 2015, 11:11 PM, and the Jury voted 7-0 to HIDE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This person should be banned for this kind of shit. I suspect they are a repeat customer here.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Awful. Hope this is the last we see of this poster.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
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Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
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still_one
(92,526 posts)Positrons
(53 posts)Marr
(20,317 posts)After watching the clip in question, I also don't see where he got the Kingfisher thing. Jon was mocking Herman Cain in exactly the same way he mocks other idiot politicians.
And people often argue when they're collaborating, if they actually give a shit about their work.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)Positrons
(53 posts)YMMV...
I was glad when he left...
pansypoo53219
(21,010 posts)La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)with everyone preparing for jon's soon departure. not an excuse, but stress does have its effects
wheniwasincongress
(1,307 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)spanone
(135,950 posts)La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)something that we would should all accept somewhat about ourselves, and stop being defensive when accused of racism from black people I have mild racism, he said. Its benign. Its not aggressive.
the fact that Jon believes that he is more of an expert on race, than Wyatt is the part of this that i find really troubling, the fact that he was ill tempered about it, is just a function of people working together under high pressure
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)Was that in the article or I missed it? On the podcast?
I think he thinks he's more an expert on comedy and what's best for the show, not race.
Judging by how it went down, Stewart really wanted to "fuck you" to FOX News, above else, and not concede he may have crossed the line.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)Where did Stewart proclaim himself an expert on race? I'm pretty sure he's ignoring it if anything.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)made the statements, and Stewart skewered him - like he does everybody else.
Let me point out this a 4 YEAR old story, which who in the hell knows why it is being brought up again, now.
And Wyatt Cenac will be on the last show. Oh gee, nobody built a bridge and got over it.
4 YEARS AGO.
It stinks to high heaven.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)about working with stewart.
i don't really know why you people are getting so worked up about this, stewart is human and therefore capable of human flaws. i think he is amazing but i am sure he has his flaws. like all of us.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I can only speak for myself. It seems dodgy to me because this was 4 years ago, and Stewart apologized on air humbly.
MosheFeingold
(3,051 posts)It has all the usual suspects -- Dean Martin, Sammy Davis Junior, Don Rickels, Rodney Dangerfield, Frank Sinatra, etc.
They were unbelievably brutal and about as non-PC as humanly possible. As in, "one-eyed nigger Jew" was a recurring line.
They were also clearly good friends, off stage, and you could tell they loved and respected one another.
Among my dwindling crowd of WWII Army friends, my Sergeant (to whom I literally owe my life; he caught a bullet with my name on it), still greats me on the phone with "Joooooo!"
I am happy people are more sensitive to racial and other issues, but I think we might have stepped too far where camaraderie, and the humor of the absurdity of being human, is lost, especially among men friends, where love is shown via practical jokes, the occasional punch on the shoulder, and, yes, name-calling.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"and it's never been a secret that he's an asshole who reacts poorly to being challenged..."
That's a wonderfully unsupported allegation. No doubt, some fine fiction will follow shortly below after one or two anecdotal examples to add better cover and concealment.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)So Stewart and Cenac argued? So Stewart shouts expletives?
So what?
He gave many comedians a step up on the ladder.
That would include Cenac.
shenmue
(38,506 posts)but that's not a concern of people (such as the OP) who only post to draw attention to themselves and smear others.
The OP had fun being obnoxious and throwing dirt on somebody else's name.
The OP survived an alert, although in terms of poetic justice, he should not have.
That's the world. Giggles for trolls!
FourScore
(9,704 posts)I don't understand why he's saying all of this now. If he had problems, he could quit. Remember, it was Jon Stewart's show, not Cenac's!
Feron
(2,063 posts)I know it's natural to defend someone if you are a fan, but would you feel the same way if Stewart were a right-winger?
I don't watch The Daily Show often, but I generally like John Stewart. And being a white person, I know that there is often a big blind spot with whites when it comes to race. It's not that Stewart had to take orders from Cenac, but he should have taken his opinion far more seriously (and maturely) than he did in the story told.
Stewart's reaction is also a common one:
http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/white-fragility-why-its-so-hard-to-talk-to-white-people-about-racism-twlm/
FourScore
(9,704 posts)(and did not say) This was a one-sided interview. It is purely from Cenac's perspective.
If things were really as Cenac describes them, then that is disappointing to me. I would've held Stewart to a higher standard. However, even if it were true, I question Cenac's judgement in airing dirty laundry like this, especially right when Stewart is saying goodbye. The question is, did he only blow up at Cenac or did he do it to others? Cenac makes it sound racial. Maybe it's just prima donna-ish. Or maybe Cenac was pushing buttons in ways that were counterproductive to those trying to put a show together in a matter of a few hours. Who knows? The interview was one-sided.
Still, Cenac owes his current fame to Stewart. Unfortunately, by speaking out publicly, I am afraid that he has harmed his own career. I used to work in the film industry. People who are famous are accused of all sorts of crazy shit. It's frowned upon when stars do it publicly to each other or to a producer or writer or director, etc. You deal with it internally. That's why magazines so often quote a good friend. The star may green light the "friend" to talk to the reporter, but they won't do it themselves. Then there is always a blanket of protection. People won't be so eager to hire Cenac if he doesn't understand this. They will question his judgement and wonder if he will do the same to them.
Each time I see a star complain publicly, I think, "What the hell did you just do that for?" because they are shooting their own career down, not the person they are attacking. I can give countless examples, but the entertainment industry is sort of like a family, you just don't air the dirty laundry through the press.
Also, the enormous stress of putting together a nightly 30-minute comedy show based on current events is so hard. I have always been in awe of Stewart (and Colbert) for what they are capable of doing. Such stress is so enormous, you have no idea. If people blow their stack every now and then, I get it. Is it right? No. Is it part of it? I don't see how it couldn't be.
Anyway, my comment before was stupid and inarticulate and only a fraction of what I was thinking. Thank you for calling me out on it, Feron, and forcing me to do it right.
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)theboss
(10,491 posts)I kinda don't blame either of them here, though.
Response to wheniwasincongress (Original post)
wheniwasincongress This message was self-deleted by its author.
Number23
(24,544 posts)acknowledged that they could do better and didn't deny that this happened. They also didn't lay all of this at the feet of Wyatt or claim that he is just "too sensitive" or "looking to be offended" which is unfortunately what alot of white people do in these circumstances.
Steve Bodow, an executive producer, acknowledged in an interview that there were blind spots at the program when Mr. Cenac worked there, and Im sure there still are now, he said.
meaculpa2011
(918 posts)many years ago before he got the Daily Show gig.
It was not pleasant. Classic kiss up, piss down personality.
wheniwasincongress
(1,307 posts)No expressing dislike of or insulting Jon Stewart at DU! I learned my lesson! (I learned I'm a troll too, and looking for attention)
Aerows
(39,961 posts)He apologized on air and was humble.
And 4 YEARS AGO.
Why are we stirring in this particular pile at this moment, 4 YEARS AGO.