General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTo hell with blaming Barack Obama for Wisconsin.
Yes, I'll go there. It's a very disappointing loss, but looking for a scapegoat to satisfy our bitterness is counter-productive, if not to mention in this case, totally wrong.
"The fault lies not in our stars, but in ourselves."
Shake it off and get back in the fight. Organize, organize, organize.
TheWraith
(24,331 posts)We can't just sit on our asses and expect others to do the hard stuff for us, even the President. Sharpen the knives and let's get to work.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Obama came in with a huge majority of the voters and a Democratic Congress behind him. He focused on a corporate-sponsored health insurance reform plan that will benefit only a small minority of voters until 2014 -- if the Republicans don't kill it before that.
Had he focused immediately on the economy -- had he fought unemployment with a huge infusion of government money into jobs programs right away. Had he come down hard on the bankers and ended the derivatives excesses, Democrats would be easily elected not only in Wisconsin but across the nation.
Obama has a few months to get a new team and correct his course. That's all he has.
I like him and wish him well. But a president who acts like Hoover and governs like Hoover -- trying to satisfy the 1% without losing the support of the 99% cannot succeed. Obama has to decide whose side he is on -- that of ordinary, laboring, struggling people or the cheats at the top.
The only thing that can defeat the money of the 1% is the trust of the American people in those who oppose the 1%. Obama has not earned that trust yet.
Sorry but the emperor has no clothes. I call it like I see it. You can go into denial if you want, but we have a lot of work to do between now and November, and we can't do it without Obama's leadership.
TheWraith
(24,331 posts)Which is about all your stack of recycled and debunked complaints merits. But hey, if it's so easy I'm sure you'll go into politics, win a few elections on that platform, and then do it yourself.
progress2k12nbynd
(221 posts)I can't believe in 2012 we still have members replying with 'thanks for your "concern."
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Then they were never really that great.
Sid
treestar
(82,383 posts)Like we really need "supporters" who are that weak.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)momrois
(98 posts)I've been a member for a number of years. I don't post often, but I do read. I believe I'm probably typical of the majority of DU members in that if I choose to leave, it will be precisely because of the sort of childish back and forth exhibited in this thread.
Bolo Boffin
(23,796 posts)If you want to believe that, go right ahead. But the ACA is affecting lots of people right now. Have you missed all the Catholic Church idiocy over basic reproductive coverage for women? Did the elimination of pre-existing conditions pass you by? Keeping children up to age 26 on your policy? Any of this ringing a bell?
Go sell cynicism some place else, Priestly.
Plucketeer
(12,882 posts)"comfortable shoes" tell me WHY it's unresonable to recall those.
Bolo Boffin
(23,796 posts)Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Only a small percentage of people have children in college but younger than 26.
People with pre-existing conditions who were covered by employer policies were always covered. The number of people who buy their policies independently, have pre-existing conditions AND lived in a state that didn't already require coverage in spite of pre-existing conditions, is not that great. (California has required coverage for people with pre-existing conditions for some years now. The insurance companies can charge extra for the pre-existing conditions up to a certain point.)
Obama's health care insurance reform really hasn't benefited people that much yet.
markpkessinger
(8,409 posts)... That is only one of 50 states. As a recently diagnosed diabetic, the pre-existing conditions aspect of the ACA is of HUGE importance!
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Usually, the employer plans just cover all employees and generally their families too -- for a price.
markpkessinger
(8,409 posts)... But if I should lose my job , or at some point have to take a job with an employer that doesn't offer coverage, then the issue of pre-existing conditions is a BIG DEAL. And I have no way of knowing what will happen down the line employment-wise.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)and neither do without it nor obtain coverage through their employer is too small to mean significant understanding about what the health care insurance reform means.
markpkessinger
(8,409 posts)The Democrats would have the nation SOLIDLY behind them had President Obama launched the New New Deal he either promised or intimated.
quakerboy
(13,925 posts)Or at least most of them. I'm just not always sure which of us are pointing them at whom. But I am fairly sure they are not all pointing the same way.
Or to put it more clearly, I am fairly certain that being the opponent of the Democratic party in campaign mode is kinda like having a ninja attack you with a kitten.
Poll_Blind
(23,864 posts)You know?
PB
progressoid
(50,030 posts)I agree, a little more than a tweet would have been nice.
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)A glorious, just freedom war.
so long as he is occupied with the important stuff.
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)Your anti-Obama/Democrat schtick was absent for months before today. Showed up right on time to rub some salt in wounds. There is a five letter word for that.
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)If arguments supporting centrism makes one anti Democratic in your mind, then that is your opinion.
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)Nope, I got it right.
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)It's why you're here.
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)Nice try.
Signed, Dr. Fate
DU Member since 2002 and proud Centrist.
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)Bob Jones or Liberty?
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)Nt
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)There's work to be done!
Nice to see you again, Dr Fate. It's been a while, and I've missed you.
I see you got yourself a pet.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Obama could have taken up residence in Wisconsin and you'd still think of something else he could have done.
DearAbby
(12,461 posts)notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)this place is crawling with trolls. This is SOP for the GOP. Blame Obama no matter what.
Yep.
Bolo Boffin
(23,796 posts)are doing this. Trolls will shake out in the end.
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)It's either the anti centrist liberals or the anti union trolls who are causing all the problems round here. certainly not centrists.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)the "pretend centrist" routine is old and tired.
Sid
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)...pretend ones or otherwise.
No weak sauce here- just a WINNING RECIPE, baby.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)You need new material.
Sid
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)as do all centrists.
Son of Gob
(1,502 posts)He's been gone for months, but pops in today to rub salt in the wound and try to divide actual Democrats. He's the definition of a disruptor.
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)Just like we all do, or should.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
SunsetDreams
(8,571 posts)for Cow Pie?
Snarkoleptic
(6,002 posts)The massive Walker/Koch propaganda machine ensnared many who aren't well informed.
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)centrists are not THAT stupid.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)Sorry, did Obama do a single thing? A single thing to help? That's what groups gathered together do. That's his responsibility to the group.
But I do certainly agree: Organize, Organize, Organize. Strategize. Use direct action. Interfere. Take back the country.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Sorry, but I have to disagree on that one.
And the battle was going to be uphill all the way, with Walker never leaving campaign mode since he got into office.
Starting from the Democratic Party fence sitters in 2010 who allowed the GOP and Kochs to put Walker and his Tea Party majority in, and then a hastily made campaign that was only 2 months in length after the petition to recall drive finished.
With a candidate unions were against before he volunteered to run. There was a lot more going on in Wisconsin than most of us know, different demographics and political undercurrents than any of us will ever know.
Not Obama's fault.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)in exactly the manner accomplished when he made a simple statement supporting LGBTQ rights. It wouldn't have taken much to tip this in our favor, so I question the lack of such support
I honor EVERYONE who worked their asses off against Walker. None of it was wasted, the war is not over. These Wisconsinites are my heroes.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)But...timing is everything. Throw us a crumb, etc...
freshwest
(53,661 posts)On this subject today, as I said, minds are made up just like they were in WI many months ago. Whether it was Koch $$$ that helped make up those minds, it's done and nothing is going to change the minds of those for whom Obama is not worthy of their vote in November.
N/T
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)Nt
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)dionysus
(26,467 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
But they look so cute with their pom poms
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Sorry, but in addition to the fact that Obama did not support the public employees and other workers in Wisconsin, the economy is in the tank. It isn't fair, but Obama has to bear the blame for that.
This means Obama is going to have to pull rabbits out of his hat between now and November.
The right-wing money machine is tough to beat.
Major Nikon
(36,828 posts)17% of Obama supporters voted for Walker.
Anyone who wants to blame Obama for this really needs to look a bit farther.
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)Also, it cannot be said that our party leadership did not fight very hard to combat the monied interests, etc.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Not step back and leave it all to the "leaders." That's the authoritarian mindset.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Let's blame Obama. That's the ticket!
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)he even tried real hard not to extend their tax cuts and stuff- but all the liberals did was complain and stay home.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)Non centrists can do whateves.
citizen blues
(570 posts)There's still a lot of votes to be counted. And there had better be a reality check on that Red Shift.
WestWisconsinDem
(127 posts)"Yes, please fuck us over some more Mr. Walker! It was so nice the first time!
Lifelong (minus one year) Wisconsinite ashamed to be from this hole.
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)Blaming citizens instead of leadership always wins points.
WestWisconsinDem
(127 posts)It's the dumbass citizens of this state who voted for the tool, not the president. Forgive me if I sound bitter but I just watched my neighbors vote for a man who would love nothing more than to close down my daughters' public school and fire my ass for signing a recall petition.
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)besides- it would have been a bad thing if Obama had to pretend to support Unions- now he can rightfully blame them for the shellacking and be more centrist.
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)Which Obama and centrists tried to OPPOSE, by the way.
stuart68
(561 posts)stuart68
(561 posts)He blew this off, because he calculated it was the right thing for him to do, and the results are in. Just suck it up and get back out there to support him in Nov.
Do you think WJ Clinton would have avoided WI or taken it to them ?
weak.
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)nt
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)Our elected officials have as much of an independent influence on the outcome of the "game" as the San Diego Chicken has on the outcome of a Padres game. The actual "players" aren't elected and the only way elected officials stay in power is by being careful not to run afoul of them.
Any sense that those elected officials (or we, supposedly their bosses, after all) are in control is merely for show.
From time to time they put on a good show, as when the San Diego Chicken decks the Philly Phanatic, and we derive some pleasure and even a sense of deluded empowerment from this. But it's only a show. It has nothing to do with the actual game.
I bet you feel special when you use your club card and save a buck.
As George Carlin presciently said, "It's a big club, and you ain't in it."
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)I'm not missing the point at all- the party leadership does not have the responsibility of a leader or a coach-they are more like mascots in cartoon suits.
I do too understand centrism.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)All a anachronistic "leader" has is vision strength and integrity, (idiots like FDR or LBJ), they didn't sell enough tickets to the pacs, so like many outdated items they are irrelevant to our current Favorite sport (and one time government).
Finaly someone that understands the modern political franchise.
stuart68
(561 posts)Run afoul or a fowel ?
So, why does Obama campaign anywhere at anytime ? Why spew all the carbon ? Why not take all those donations and do some good (a $B is a lot of chicken scratch).
He is just like the chicken in that he was too chicken to get in the trench in WI, because it didn't help him personally. WI drones will show up for him in NOv anyway, why mess up is manicure by getting his hands dirty ?
stuart68
(561 posts)dionysus
(26,467 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
GoCubsGo
(32,103 posts)And, may I once again express my gratitude to the admins for providing this service.
joshcryer
(62,287 posts)goclark
(30,404 posts)It's not about Obama IMO.
It is about Suppression .
Until we stop the Robo Calls and dirty tricks --- we are sticking our heads in the sand.
ilikeitthatway
(143 posts)n/t
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)Nt
ManyShadesOf
(639 posts)Peregrine Took
(7,421 posts)Forever and ever .
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)otherwise we wouldn't have a talking point against the koch suckers
albeit scott better not be caught at any Packer games...
AynRandCollectedSS
(108 posts)He distanced himself from Wisconsin because it would have seriously alienated some of the electorate that were against the recall. Good thing he did because polls show Obama still leads there by a decent margin. He knows we might lose some battles, but is in it to win the war.
As pissed as I am that Walker won, I think Obama did the right thing by not getting involved and risking his chances in Nov.
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)This is just like when the far left blamed Obama and the party leadership for not fighting for the PO- Obama counted the votes ahead of time and knew it was not going to happen, so instead, he kept his eyes on the prize.
The results? Many major DEM wins and victories, and many, many more ahead.
In sum, whatever it is that Obama does or does not do, it is probably the Right thing.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
treestar
(82,383 posts)But your point is a very good one. It is not to be assumed that getting greatly involved was a good thing. That's a judgment call that the complainers are not thinking through very well. At bottom they assume Dems in states can win just because the President tells the state voters to vote his way.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)If you needed Obama to convince you not to vote for Scott Walker after he wrecked your state, you have a bigger problem than any face time with him could fix. I do not need Obama to tell me that eating glass is a bad thing, no matter how much the Koch Brothers pay me to eat some.
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)And just because centrist DEMS gave the Kochs billions in tax cut extensions does not mean they funded them- the Kochs promised to create jobs with that.
How were we suppose to know they were lying, for instance?
Point is, DEM centrism and general Democratic leadership strategy has NOTHING to do with our party failures, assuming we even have them.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)I will agree that we need a leftward turn, all the same, if Obama came to Wisconsin, would you be quieting the bandwagon that would be saying it was his fault for coming? I doubt it. The whole state was set up to be "Obama's fault."
AllyCat
(16,276 posts)We lost this because of cheating, money, and a whole bunch of people that think it is a-okay to make people pay more for services and get paid less to do it. They like sick kids. They hate minorities and gays. They have been told "unions is bad" while they enjoy their weekends. Not sure what has happened to my wonderful state. But it AIN'T OBAMA'S fault!!
Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)THIS is a LOCAL ISSUE, FOLKS.
And as far as the cheating you mentioned goes- I hope Obama's DOJ does not get involved in that either. He needs to stay out of these local issues that have no effect on the rest of the system.
AllyCat
(16,276 posts)and don't want the Dem party involved in any blaming. Here, you sound sarcastic. Of course they should be watching vote counting. If people's votes are being stolen ANYWHERE in the U.S. they should be investigating it. That isn't centrist or fringe. That is the law. However, I don't see why Obama should show up in our state going one way or another. He wasn't here for the protests all last winter either.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)It's a worn out, tired old act he's been using for years as a way to attack Obama and his supporters.
He's been dormant for months but chose last night to revive his act to rub salt in the wounds of the Barrett loss.
It's weak fucking sauce.
Sid
AllyCat
(16,276 posts)Not T/S'd yet? Oh well, the ignore button where is that....ah, there it is
flamingdem
(39,342 posts)Get Obama elected, and not attack one another.
We don't have their money, we can't indulge in circular firing squads anymore
krawhitham
(4,651 posts)Dr Fate
(32,189 posts)Those guys are obviously doing a heck of a job, maintaining their traditional base.
True- we can't blame DEM leadership for losing so many union votes- it was bound to happen. Who needs 'em anyway.
Mr Dixon
(1,185 posts)Major Nikon
(36,828 posts)So it doesn't surprise me much. Lot's of people vote against their own best interests, including union members.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)and I wish somebody could 'splain to me how that could happen
36%
ananda
(28,925 posts).. if Howard Dean and the DNC had been in charge over the last four years, I think
we'd be seeing a whole different picture.
For that I blame ObamaRahma.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Some people are just so obsessed with the Presidency.
If only Obama would come to my district! Then they'd put a Democrat in for my State House seat!!!! His magic would do it. Last time, the Democrats did not even field a candidate. This district is that Republican! But if Obama came by and spoke at the local high school, it would all be different! Drat that Obama! He is at fault that I always have a Republican representing me in the state house!
Really it's close to that ridiculous. Unusual elections like this one are state affairs. People might resent the national level getting involved, in fact they would.
Mr Dixon
(1,185 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Obama has nothing to do with the recall, and he has no business injecting himself into a state government's matters, like a recall. He endorsed Barrett, which is the most he could do. Just like Bush didn't get involved in the CA Davis recall.
NO ONE would have paid any attention to what Obama wanted as far as WI governorship. Everyone knows he's a Democrat and wanted Barrett to win, andWalker to be recalled. It made NO DIFFERENCE.
The people of Wisconsin voted for what they wanted. Apparently what they wanted is Walker.
Jafo232
(1 post)There is no one person to blame. The fact is, most of America is not liberal. They may vote for Democrats, but MOST of the country does not vote for liberal Democrats. The party has seemed to forget this and let the ultra-left wing run rampant.
This election is the proof of what I am saying. If you are honest and do the math, there is really no way Walker could win by such a margin unless he won the votes of some DEMOCRATS.
I think it is time for some soul searching or results like this will become commonplace. Get rid of the freaks in the party, you know, these strung out anarchists occupy types that have lately become the poster children of the party. If you want the votes of the majority, you can't cater to the fringe.
P.S. I am not a Republican and I am no Democrat, I just miss the average Joe that both parties used to represent..
CrispyQ
(36,581 posts)The people who can change the status quo, benefit from the status quo. And too many Americans won't wake up until they are penniless. I don't know why, but it seems that too many people lack empathy & therefore cannot see the bad in something until it happens to them.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Could Obama have helped Barrett beat Walker if he went to Wisconsin? I think so, but I could be wrong. Nobody knows for sure. Would it have been risky? Absolutely. Did Obama do the right thing by staying away from Wisconsin. Maybe...maybe not. Nobody knows for sure.
What we do know is that it's over and citizens united has proven to be a Republican wet dream. That's the only thing we can conclude from last night. The GOP has endless piles of cash. They are intent on buying government at the federal and state levels.
stupidicus
(2,570 posts)outta dems, and you haven't provided any examples of it.
All I've largely seen is disappointment over less participation in the race on his part than some would have desired, which could and perhaps would result in some measure of responsibility to him for the loss by them -- a minority no doubt -- but hardly the lion's share as your hollow declaration suggests.
Perhaps maybe the distinction is too subtle for you, or in the more likely alternative, you can't make the case that more of an effort on his part wouldn't have had an impact. Both camps are on equal footing here, since we'll never know.
Whether it would have been enough or not isn't the issue, but rather whether more involvement on his part would have had any.
And of course the suggestion that people "organize" is a no-brainer, since without concerted help from the leadership in DC this indicates, what other options are there besides resignation to defeat.
SO what we're left with, is some calling his efforts "token" in nature and effect, and others incapable of refuting that given the reasonable nature of it, exaggerating what they are saying in an effort to admonish them for it, because essentially it appears, BHO can do no wrong -- the implication on your part in this case for sure.
The biggest reasons for the loss based on the known facts is kochsucker money and the unpalatibility of the recall election period to too many.
So by all means, give us a top post declaring those that blame or took offense to Obama's token efforts are ignorant of those "facts".
If they aren't, then their complaints are more if not exclusively about his token efforts, not "blame" like he coulda overcome the what, 60% hurdle that thought the recall outta line from the onset?
"Tis far, far better...." is what they're complaining about, and his lack of it.
and no, that this is all the product of his political calculus doesn't matter either, since we don't know it was correct either.
For example, what happened in the black community after he evolved? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/keith-boykin/black-community-gay-marriage_b_1567781.html Perhaps maybe another "evolution" on his part would have benefitted the WI "revolution" in ways only actually doing so coulda shown, no?
deaniac21
(6,747 posts)pansypoo53219
(21,016 posts)ignore the fact that walker is a sleeze ball. the voters still didn't think he deserved being recalled.