General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIf we lose, I believe *this* post demonstrates why
From Comments (Not Obama's, a Democrat) placed on the NBC news page declaring the winner:
"
There is a time and place for Unions and the time is over and the place is not within any of our government employee base, and I'm a Democrat that has some of the same believes as a Republican. I attribute some of the current problems We face to date because of Unions, I'm not going to hide my head in the sand and march to any piper. >>>>>>> Obama 2012
"
(Edit as I think it was being misunderstood due to grammer problems. The poster is saying they support Obama at the end, it is not an Obama Quote)
We are loosing the war of ideas by compromising and not holding to a strong and distinct message and that is reflected daily, even here on these boards , this comment reflects that.
I don't believe we will loose the Presidency. But the way we are conducting business as Democrats, mixing our message and sometimes even values, even expressing some Republican talking points in to "appeal" to "centrists, is too weak to counter the power of monitized and consistant messaging by the other forces.
We know what Republicans believe in. It is confused *Democrats*, like the one above, that will weaken our party and it's strength in the ballot box. I believe we will see more and more "cross over" as we lose on the issues, even if we manage to hold ground in many offices. And unfortunately that will have been much of our own making.
This is not a "Blame Obama" post. Hopefully it will be seen as a "Wake Up" post. We need to support Democrats, but we also need to insist and strengthen our support for *all* of primary progressive values and ideas. You know.. the ones we used to believe in with more conviction in the past. Whether that involves Unions, Teachers, Taxes, Detrimental Globalization, Environment, Safety Net, Social Security, Gender equality, LGBT rights, Democracy, Fair Economics .... all of it. We have science and history as a basis and we should never jetison the strength of our convictions based on expediency in "reaching out". Because ultimately that is a loosing proposition.
link:
http://nbcpolitics.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/05/12074595-nbc-news-walker-emerges-victorious-in-wisconsin-recall#comments
Search down the comments for a poster named Sam2468
mahina
(17,778 posts)Please.
I do not believe he said that.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)Search down the comments for a poster named Sam2468
mac56
(17,575 posts)How clever of him.
mahina
(17,778 posts)newthinking
(3,982 posts)mahina
(17,778 posts)Maybe I'm stupid.
I know I'm grumpy and sad.
Night.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)The OP was quoting a comment from the NBC news page. I can see why you would be confused with the "Obama 2012" line at the end, but that appears to me to be a part of the comment rather than an attribution.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)for liberals.
mac56
(17,575 posts)Anyone can write anything and attribute it to anybody. Mark Twain told me that.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)Truth doesn't have much bearing on politics. Truth doesn't matter very much in elections.
mahina
(17,778 posts)Thanks for the chuckle, I needed it.
markpkessinger
(8,409 posts)I just did an exact quote advanced Google search for the phrase "There is a time and place for Unions and the time is over". The search returned a SINGLE hit: YOUR POST. So, unless you can provide a citation that anybody else can verify, I have to assume you are making shit up.
mahina
(17,778 posts)Same results.
Response to mahina (Reply #28)
newthinking This message was self-deleted by its author.
uponit7771
(90,378 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)RWers log on and pretend to be disaffected liberals all the time...
.
mahina
(17,778 posts)from elsewhere. For one thing it has too many mistakes, both in concept and execution.
:BS.
Poll_Blind
(23,864 posts)Even Obama....even Obama...wouldn't throw unions under the bus like that.
PB
newthinking
(3,982 posts)newthinking
(3,982 posts)the messages coming from our party.
How is it that some people here actually had to look it up? If our message of support for Unions and the values behind Unions was strong nobody would even think to need to look it up! That is part of my point. They would know that they either misread it or someone was playing a trick (It's the first) immediately.
It confuses even those who know better. Imagine the people less engaged. They might actually believe that Obama would say something like that!
That happens because we have compromised essential values too often.
Kurovski
(34,655 posts)"We", huh?
newthinking
(3,982 posts)The message is weak.
It's late. You misread the post / quote. OK so what. Well, if our message was strong you would not even feel led to search it out. Because Union support is a strong tenent of Democrats from way back. Or is it? The message is mixed.
Imagine the less well read and the effect it has on their votes. Sure we capture some "brand loyalty", but we lose the the ability to make any real change.
Kurovski
(34,655 posts)Dude, you have 4! I read the post. It had initially appeared to be a bit trollish, which is weakest of all. There has subsequently been a clarification.
It took a lot of years and a lot of money to create "union" into a dirty word. We are facing many millions of dollars of lies and distortions that people will find difficult to resist. The psychological triumph of leading people to vote to their own detriment cannot be understated.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)They were all clarifying for those who did not fully read the post.
I said from the beginning that this was a "comment" posted.
I could have been clearer, but I cannot be responsible for people jumping to conclusions.
If you read further in the original I said "confused Democrats like the one above". I think people tend to skim:
"We know what Republicans believe in. It is confused *Democrats*, like the one above, that will weaken our party"
This OP and the replies have made me remember why I stopped posting and visiting for a while. I am not sure that folks have the patience to really try to understand an argument like this, and DU is the tops when it comes to calling out each other's intentions and eating their own.
Kurovski
(34,655 posts)You are being overuled by we the readers, my DU compatriot.
I ain't been here much meself lately.
And so, goodnight!
newthinking
(3,982 posts)newthinking
(3,982 posts)But interestingly, I didn't think that when I first read the comment. I understood it. I did not see any indication on MSN's site that people thought Sam was trying to create misinformation, and that site has a lot of argumentative people. I think it is DU. Not the quote, unfortunately.
Kurovski
(34,655 posts)Once more, the original post was the issue, not your comprehension of a post on a site elsewhere. It looked like you were yanking us. But you weren't. I get it now. I got it then.
Context is...OHH, YOU! I get it...NOW you're yanking us.
cry baby
(6,682 posts)but it's a comment about the story in the comment section.
mahina
(17,778 posts)What are you, 12?
Just posting it somewhere else and attributing it to the Obama campaign does not make that a credible source.
Holy smokes.
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)The OP attributed it to a comment on the NBC message boards, nowhere was the claim made that Obama said it. The "Obama 2012" at the end was part of the quote, not an attribution.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)Man things are crazy here. Maybe I should have waited to post about this but I think people will only get more emotional and jump to more conclusions.
ohheckyeah
(9,314 posts)it certainly looked like the quote was being attributed to Obama. To read it as being attributed to Obama is not "crazy"......that's the way it looked with the >>>>>Obama 2012.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)you would have seen that I clearly attributed it to a Democrat who posted a comment.
If I had it to do again I would have said it is not Obama in the first sentence, maybe in bold, but really should I have to? I had taken a break from this place and had forgotten how suspicious, challenging, and impatient many posters here are.
Did you read the whole thing and try to understand what I was saying? Just asking, not accusing.
ManyShadesOf
(639 posts)"But the way we are conducting business as Democrats, mixing our message and sometimes even values, even expressing some Republican talking points in to "appeal" to "centrists, is too weak to counter the power of monitized and consistant messaging by the other forces."
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Not so much tho...
Kurovski
(34,655 posts)Nothing personal.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)and that's the point the OP is trying to make....there are way too many of them out there.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)That is my point. There is an entire mass of people toward the "center" that are confused. That is why a mixed message is not really the way to build more of these people into the base.
okieinpain
(9,397 posts)StarrMatthieu
(16 posts)[IMG][/IMG]BUMPS
Martin Eden
(12,888 posts)"loose" rhymes with juice
"lose" rhymes with booze
Sorry, but that extra 'o' is an internet per peeve of mine that I know is not a typo on your part because you also typed "loosing"
(I'm pointing this out to inform, not to berate)
BTW, nice post.
Blaspherian
(94 posts)Good tune
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)The New Democrats are not supportive of unions. They like their money, but insofar as speaking out loud in support of them, meh, not so much. The right wing propaganda machine has played an important role in turning this sentiment around as well. They've succeeded in their divide and conquer agenda and we now see centrist Democrats who are against public workers benefits. Democrats need to wake up and realize they can't support corporations and unions at the same time, especially in today's political climate. When you look at the amount of money we're up against thanks to Citizens United, the Democrats weak, wishy-washy messaging, just ain't gonna cut it if they want to win future elections.