General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhat does the US import that, if cut off, would decrease our quality of life?
For a long time the US necessarily needed to import energy to keep our society running. Now with efficiencies and locally produced energy (including Mexico and Canada) we no longer need the Middle East.
What else cannot be found within the US or could not made here? Apple could make electronics in the US, but they would have to pay a premium for US labor. Rare earths?
LisaM
(27,864 posts)AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)I know. I know
They are almost an endangered species. but I couldn't resist..
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)something greater?????????
pangaia
(24,324 posts)For this blue fin is the best.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)Viva_La_Revolution
(28,791 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)Where I live, which is near Rochester, NY, he hit the nail on the head.
The area, with very few exceptions, is the cuisine armpit of Upstate.
Ohioblue22
(1,430 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Ohioblue22
(1,430 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Yes, we have to get sources for those. But we could manufacture anything we needed here.
We should import raw materials and export finished goods, agricultural products, etc.
Ohioblue22
(1,430 posts)XemaSab
(60,212 posts)n/t
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)We have the technical know how, not the will to build here.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,719 posts)What is the mechanism by which we make them here?
And with so much of our "stuff" coming from China how are they going to react to us economically starving them?
That's what scares me about Trump.
braddy
(3,585 posts)Last edited Thu May 12, 2016, 08:12 PM - Edit history (1)
people can only afford to buy American made versions of those products instead of the authentic foreign made Trump versions.
If the Trump family made their goods in America, then we working class people may never be able to afford a Trump tie.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)We don't need to import any manufactured goods if we are willing to pay a slight premium for the production.
An exception might be for luxury items, that while we could manufacture them here, wouldn't be the same as the originals. Some people might prefer a Gucci bag to a "Goochy" bag. Or French wines. Or German optics. etc.
FuzzyRabbit
(1,970 posts)If we couldn't import coffee, then life would not be worth living.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)although not nearly enough to keep us afloat.
In fact, our very own proud patriot has a coffee farm in Kona.
Major Nikon
(36,828 posts)I prefer coffee grown at higher altitudes.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)mahatmakanejeeves
(57,787 posts)safeinOhio
(32,764 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Also under consideration for mining are sites such as Thor Lake in the Northwest Territories, various locations in Vietnam, and a site in southeast Nebraska in the US, where Quantum Rare Earth Development, a Canadian company, is currently conducting test drilling and economic feasibility studies toward opening a niobium mine.
And you'll never guess who has more than anyone besides China!
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)The list of environmental concerns that can be connected with rare earth elements is not a brief one. Throughout the cycle of mining processes that rare earth elements go through, there is potential for negative effects on the environment. Extracting rare earth elements begins with mining. This is followed by the refining process, and then disposal. All of the stages of mining, refining, and disposal come with unique issues.
Mining
The physical process of removing the ores from the ground is disruptive to the environment.
Most rare earth elements are mined through open pit mining, which involves opening the
surface of the earth using heavy equipment and machinery. Creating this disruption on the
surface of the earth disrupts thriving ecosystems. Furthermore, mines are the point source of release for three major contaminants: are radionuclides, rare earth elements, and dust and metal. Each of these contaminants escapes the mines in different ways and they each have different detrimental effects on the environment.
Refining
The goal of mining is to end up with a mostly pure and usable element that can be utilized in
whatever way necessary. However, the ores that are extracted from the earth do not come
out pure, instead they need to undergo a refining process. This refining process introduces
another set of environmental concerns, mostly revolving around the release of metal
byproducts into the environment. It is very easy for metals to enter the air, ground, or water
sin an environment, and once there it is nearly impossible to remove them. The metals in an
environment can also prove devastating to organisms.
Disposal
The byproduct of mining rare earth elements is usually waste that is full of further threats
to the environment. Generally, waste is categorized into two different types: tailings and
waste rock stockpiles. It is the tailings that are of particular concern as they are full of small,
fine particles that can be absorbed into the water and ground surrounding a particular mine.
~ snip ~
o http://web.mit.edu/12.000/www/m2016/finalwebsite/problems/mining.html
o http://web.mit.edu/12.000/www/m2016/finalwebsite/problems/refining.html
o http://web.mit.edu/12.000/www/m2016/finalwebsite/problems/disposal.html
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Angel Martin
(942 posts)but what I will personally miss most is toothpaste tainted with anti-freeze
http://www.thestreet.com/story/13063992/1/china-has-a-history-of-selling-dangerous-products-to-us-consumers.html
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)mahatmakanejeeves
(57,787 posts)Here, let me plug in this power strip with the counterfeit UL label so I get some more light to see what I'm doing.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)And they are far tastier than the Cavendish variety we import.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,719 posts)Computers, televisions, watches, clothes
Still imports!
1939
(1,683 posts)Put a tariff on imported clothing and watch how fast the factories spring up all over the US.
The one area that it would take us a while to ramp up would be steel production.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,719 posts)braddy
(3,585 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,719 posts)Trump wants to slap a 45% tariff on Chinese goods.
I have no credit card so I paid cash. I didn't have $435.00.
mahatmakanejeeves
(57,787 posts)I seem to recall that the laptops piled up for Black Friday come with a minimum of a terabyte memory on the hard drives. They go for about $250. At least that's the advertised price. Maybe there are only 50 per store, so only a few people actually get one.
I wouldn't know, as I don't do the Black Friday thing.
1939
(1,683 posts)My wife used to work in the US textile industry sewing for piece work. She worked in several places over the years (men's slacks, blue jeans, baby quilts and crib decorations, advertising hats, high end lady's tailoring, and lady's scarves and bow ties) . Most of the places she has worked have since closed, but they worked against the imports for quite a number of years. On piece work, she could make triple the minimum wage which pissed off the co-workers who were paid minimum wage and didn't produce enough to justify it. At the end, she was a shop supervisor and was doing pretty well turning the place around which suffered from inefficiency. Unfortunately, my mother passed and she elected to stay home and be with my father who was entering senile dementia. the place folded two yerears after she left.
It would only take a slight margin to bring sewing back to the US from Bangladesh and Haiti.
Steel, now, would take massive reinvestment.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)pampango
(24,692 posts)Tariffs are a Donald Trump, Pat Buchanan, Calvin Coolidge, Herbert Hoover kind of thing. Sound good but historically don't work as advertised.
That's why modern progressive countries promote strong unions and a healthy middle class the old-fashioned, 'FDR' way - high/progressive taxes, legal support for strong unions, effective safety net, tighter corporate regulation and promoting trade. Not with tariffs. It worked for FDR. It works for today's progressive countries. Funny how going "FDR" never goes out of fashion for liberals nor loses its effectiveness.
From FDR's speech at the 1936 convention:
And from FDR's 1945 State of the Union speech:
1939
(1,683 posts)and that the workers were not affected. In 1945, the US only imported raw materials. I wonder what his position would be today when the corporations can off-shore operations and it is the worker that suffers from free trade.
Don't call it a "tariff". Call it a "labor rate equalization adjustment".
I do agree that the Democratic party has been the standard bearer for "free trade" since the early 19th century and it has been the Federalists/Whigs/GOP that have promoted tariffs.
pampango
(24,692 posts)Corporations need to be controlled with regulations and high taxes as FDR did and as Sweden and other progressive countries still do; not by manipulating tariffs.
That's essentially what republicans called their 1924 tariff:
The hearings held by Congress led to the creation of several new tools of protection. The first was the scientific tariff. The purpose of the scientific tariff was to equalize production costs among countries so that no country could undercut the prices charged by American companies. The difference of production costs was calculated by the Tariff Commission.
A second novelty was the American Selling Price. This allowed the president to calculate the duty based on the price of the American price of a good, not the imported good.
The tariff was supported by the Republican party and conservatives and was generally opposed by the Democratic Party and liberal progressives. ... Five years after the passage of the tariff, American trading partners had raised their own tariffs by a significant degree.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FordneyMcCumber_Tariff
The "labor rate equalization adjustment" sounded scientific but did not work. Income inequality reached historic highs by 1929.
If FDR thought "labor rate equalization adjustment" was a viable policy for the post-war world he would have gone with it. He did not.
FDR did not say that he favored that "be freer after this war than ever before in the history of the world" only until the industries in Europe and Japan have recovered enough to pose a threat to us. In fact he proposed taking the governing of international trade out of the hands of national governments and do it by international cooperation (his International Trade Organization) instead.
Perhaps he was not as smart as modern American progressives, though progressives in actual progressive countries seem to think he was plenty smart.
Workers have always been affected by tariffs.
The Hidden Progressive History of Income Tax
The income tax was the most popular economic justice movement of the late 19th and early 20th century.
Everyday Americans hated the tax system of the Gilded Age. The federal government gathered taxes in two ways. First, it placed high tariff rates on imports. These import taxes protected American industries from competition. This allowed companies to charge high prices on products that the working class needed to survive while also protecting the monopolies that controlled their everyday lives.
These forms of indirect taxes meant that almost the entirety of federal tax revenue came from the poor while the rich paid virtually nothing. This spawned enormous outrage.
http://www.alternet.org/labor/hidden-progressive-history-income-tax?akid=9361.277129.2KDGDd&rd=1&src=newsletter706781&t=14
What was the first thing republicans did when Harding became president in 1921? They raised tariffs and cut income taxes! That would teach those progressives a lesson about substituting an income tax for high tariffs.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)In short order, we'll realize such Nationalism, America First junk was a big mistake. We are actually part of a big world, time to start acting like it.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,719 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)pkdu
(3,977 posts)James Bond.
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)But that's over. So nothing.
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)Coffee.
ileus
(15,396 posts)CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)...nice.
OK, that too.
It looks like a Browning HiPower
NeoGreen
(4,031 posts)CTyankee
(63,932 posts)I do so love my Colombian coffee....I'm sorry...forgive me my weakness for really good coffee...it is my love, right up there with some wine that is foreign made...
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)CTyankee
(63,932 posts)But I just got back from Sicily where I had the most marvelous red wine! As you probably know, in Europe the wine has no added nitrites which are present in the wine we buy. And that means you can drink more of it and not get hungover. But nobody gets drunk on the wine over there (except American tourists)...or at least that I have seen...
Hayduke Bomgarte
(1,965 posts)We seem to be in extreme short supply, domestically, of all those "goods".
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Gomez163
(2,039 posts)ileus
(15,396 posts)JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,387 posts)Another fine source for cast-off German Shepherds.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)jamese777
(546 posts)again and OPEC nations provided 31% of our oil imports last year.
"After years of decline, U.S. oil imports rise"
http://www.wsj.com/articles/after-years-of-decline-u-s-oil-imports-rise-1445851800
Warpy
(111,481 posts)and many, many other things the country would be very hard pressed to do without, especially since our industry wasn't just sent offshore, the infrastructure was either offshored or melted down for scrap.
A large scale trade embargo would bring us into the third world very quickly.
mahatmakanejeeves
(57,787 posts)Last edited Fri May 13, 2016, 02:56 PM - Edit history (3)
I think that federally funded projects, at least for heavy rail, require that the cars be built in the good old US of A. I haven't looked it up, so there's a good chance I'm not up to date on the details.
The now-running streetcars on H Street NE in DC were made in Czechoslovakia the Czech Republic. The 7000-series of cars, the newest ones running on the DC-area Metrorail system, were made by Kawasaki in Lincoln, Nebraska. Sumitomo, which makes cars for commuter rail, has its facility in northwest Illinois, IIRC.
GE locomotives are made here, by which I mean either in Erie, Pennsylvania, or a plant in Texas, but don't what used to be GM locomotives come from a factory in Canada? I can look this up....
ETA, 2:56 p.m.:
Sumitomo's plant is in Rochelle, Illinois. See:
Delays May Derail Stimulus Funding for Amtrak Railcars
Warpy
(111,481 posts)and finally had to buy new ones. They had to go offshore to buy them, to Sweden, if I disremember correctly. It was quite a dustup in the local press about how no one in the US of A was making light rail cars any more.
They also had subway cars with the old wooden seats still running on the Blue Line until the late 70s. Couldn't get new ones for that, either.
When Goodyear, GM and Stnadard Oil decided to kill mass transit, they killed all of it.
TexasProgresive
(12,165 posts)www.mineralseducationcoalition.org/
dfs/imports.pdf
Amazing to me as of 2010 we are still importing asbestos. WTF!
MgtPA
(1,022 posts)cloudbase
(5,532 posts)One of my sons gave me a bottle of whiskey made in Washington state. It's scotch, but they obviously can't call it that. Pretty decent stuff.
http://westlanddistillery.com/whiskey/
MgtPA
(1,022 posts)I'll have to give it a go.
I had no idea they made that here, either.
Major Nikon
(36,828 posts)Temperature differentials matter for spirits that are aged in wooden barrels, but local water quality used to be the biggest factor. Now the water is filtered pure and the mineral content is adjusted to provide the distiller with whatever they want.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Calvados. Was going to say good ham but 2 year old Kentucky ham is better than Italian ham. But Spanish jam on is still the best in the world.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Igel
(35,393 posts)Basmati.
Mustard oil. Can't make good chili pickle without it.
And a fair number of tonewoods. Pernambuco.
Pearson International editions.
And I, for one, rather like buying books from ruskniga.com and a couple other similar sites.
BTW, even now it's difficult to get good sliwowica and nearly impossible to get borovicka. (And, no, if you google borovicka it is not gin. Anybody who thinks that should be made to chew off their own tongues prior to drinking Everclear.)
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Which grows widely in the South. Since tea tends to grow at higher elevations, perhaps Appalachia?
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Like coffee the best is from high elevations in tropical or perhaps semi-tropical areas. It might, just might survive three out of four winters in the very southern Appalachians, but since it is a shrub or small tree that's not enough.
Last month I was in a Tea growing region of China. The tea was grown on the low slopes of the mountains. The higher slopes or too cold and these were not snow-covered peaks.
I imagine it could be grown in the lowlands from South Carolina down to North Florida. But I can't speak to the quality.
Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)And I'm sure there are several other rare South American woods used to make musical instruments.
panader0
(25,816 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)And imported Quebec maple syrup.
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)They should be sued into the stone age.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)But the result is worth the work.
karynnj
(59,511 posts)And lots of excellent cheeses.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Egnever
(21,506 posts)Our quality of life as it is today depends on the importation of goods made with lower labor costs. If we eliminated all of them not only would we be able to afford less but we would massively increase polution in this country.
I have no desire for America to be China.
The idea we could just start making things ourselves is really shallow thinking.
Skinner
(63,645 posts)Our economy is completely interconnected with the rest of the world. Voluntarily cutting ourselves off would be disastrous.
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)Demonaut
(8,939 posts)giuness
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,424 posts)2013 production (thousand barrels per day): 13,328.48; consumption 23,445.98
http://www.indexmundi.com/energy.aspx?region=na&product=oil&graph=production+consumption
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)There was no domestic supply of pistachios until the Iran embargo. Now California grows lots.
When the South faced a coffee shortage during the civil war, they improvised by blending their limited supply with chicory root. Chicory coffee remains a regional delicacy to this day, served at famed establishments like New Orleans' Cafe du Monde.
OneBlueDotBama
(1,386 posts)La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)isolation is a two way street
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)However, is there any reason to not ensure that one's own nation has a robust production economy? To produce as much for ourselves, at our standards, with our labor, for our prices as we can, before trading for that what we can't produce, or that comes in better quality elsewhere?
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Tarifs = Isolation.
Easiest way to increase our manufacturing is to kill the dollar. As long as the dollar is strong american manufacturing suffers. Of course if the dollar weakens then we don't get the cheap crap we crave.
pampango
(24,692 posts)Sweden has heavily unionized, highly-paid workforce that produces what it can and trades for what is better or cheaper from other countries.
No one here is talking about isolation but that is effectively what Trump is talking about. He will impose unilateral tariffs which require withdrawing from the WTO and NAFTA and every other trade agreement we have. If/when he does that we are back to the 1920's with retaliatory tariffs from other countries in response. Pretty soon we have effective isolationism whether that is what Trump wants to admit to up front or not.
And, of course, the trade isolationism of the 1920's was one of the things that FDR fought so hard to reverse. It's no wonder that a republican like Trump wants to bring it back.
Major Nikon
(36,828 posts)Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)Years ago my sister went to Europe and came back with some plain Suchard milk chocolate. Best damn chocolate I've ever had.
Not sure where to get it over here. They sell Cadbury and Lindt at Wallyworld so all is not lost.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)just for starters.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)They are made in China.
I don't use them, but that would hurt our lifestyle.
Lodestar
(2,388 posts)bhikkhu
(10,728 posts)Of course, we could make that here but it would cost more, so we could afford less. Personally I only have a couple pairs of shoes so it wouldn't matter much. I know some girls who's shoe collections would suffer. Same with clothing, I wouldn't mind if it cost more, if the quality and durability was a bit better.
In any case, I'm not sure if people really want to work in textile mills and shoe factories here; most kids nowadays go to college and want to do better than that.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)bhikkhu
(10,728 posts)New balance shoes are made here as well.
I have a pair of NB sneakers, and a pair of Doc Martens work shoes, thats about it. Both are well made shoes, from companies with good standards of ethics toward their employees and the employees of their suppliers.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)please solve a family argument. Some of us say Aye'mish and some say Ah-mish - which is correct? or are they both?
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)Amish people do not use computers.
rogerashton
(3,920 posts)I mostly hear Ah-mish. Not Amish myself, either -- my family was fancy-dutch a few generations back.
pampango
(24,692 posts)the rest of the world although Donald will give it a good try with his walls and tearing up all of our international agreements.
Progressive countries seem to thrive on trade and interaction with other countries. Donald's "America First" may give us the chance to see how well we can get along as an 'island' divorced from the rest of the world.
FDR may have been "an internationalist in an isolationist age" but Trump is "an isolationist in an internationalist age". Interesting times may be ahead if Donald gets his chance. If he can push his agenda through we may see how isolationism - 21st century style - works.
The rest of the world may well just say, "We enjoyed the 8 years of working with Obama who seemed to care about us. Donald obviously does not. Good luck with him. We'll check back in 4 or 8 years and see if want to join the rest of the world again or continue on the 'exceptional' route.
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
pangaia
(24,324 posts)whatthehey
(3,660 posts)Comparative advantage. By definition in the context of global trade it must be imported, and equally by definition improves the quality of life.
mahatmakanejeeves
(57,787 posts)Of course they could be made here, but when was the last time you saw a bicycle with American-sourced drive train components? We seem to have given up that market 50 years ago, maybe longer.
I'm uh, getting up there in years. The "English racers" of the 60s had Sturmey-Archer three-speed transmissions (so to speak) in the rear hub. I saw an updated version of that just last week. I can't remember the brand name, but it was an internal mechanism. Someone let me know what it was I saw.
Schwinn Paramounts of the early 70s were built in the US, but they came with all-Campagnolo components, save for the brakes. French bicycles had French components.
Today, if you don't get Shimano or Campagnolo, then I don't know what you get. Sachs-Huret?
Someone please clue me in. Thanks.
mahatmakanejeeves
(57,787 posts)I don't know what I would do without mine.
Hat tip, the thread over in the Photography Forum about Monet:
Speaking of Monet...
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,719 posts)One_Life_To_Give
(6,036 posts)We have removed alot of specialized equipment like IC Fabrication to various other parts of the globe. We could build new facilities here but it would take a few years to get them up, running and fill the supply channels.