General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"Imagine there's no heaven..."
http://www.stanleycolors.com/2012/06/imagine/
The last verse is missing. Still kind of a neat interpretation of the song.
Anybody know who the "Anna" is the pane next to Gandhi ?
wavesofeuphoria
(525 posts)hfojvt
(37,573 posts)Kournikova
but that may be wishful thinking.
limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)I see a resemblence
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)drawn in for the "you may say I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one" panels .
I'f they were in the religion panels that would be even sillier.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)it's silly to use religious figures to illustrate an anti-religious song.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)Imagine all of us rotting in the ground in less than 120 years - forever.
Living for today?
Then I might as well grab what I can - today. No need for any moral calculation at all, just a pragmatic one - will I get caught or punished?
Bolo Boffin
(23,796 posts)FreeState
(10,591 posts)Sorry but religion does not own morals or the belief in life continuing after death.
Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)Exactly. If we got here once without a God, it makes sense that the circular forces of the universe are geared toward a natural reincarnation. We will just never have any first hand knowledge of our previous existences.
msongs
(67,509 posts)Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)Of course, you've failed to account for the fact that it would work both ways.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)that is a pragmatic calculation
sudopod
(5,019 posts)You might be surprised to find out that others have thought about this a little.
Response to sudopod (Reply #13)
Post removed
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)At least not the ones that teach of the universal brotherhood of man. (And women better be included equally in there too.)
It's like when people say an atheist has no business celebrating Christmas.
How about Peace on Earth?
It's the one time of the year where armies lay down their arms. There were stories in WWI of soldiers crossing the trenches and sharing a bottle of cognac and a box of cigars and then the next day they went back at it again.
The GOAL is to make that one day happen EVERY day.
sudopod
(5,019 posts)I was being serious. It's common among people everywhere to think that they've got some special insight into whatever it is they're "in to" at the moment, as if experts in the field are bound by convention and unable to see an "obvious" answer. Go on a science website and see how many folks think that they can build a perpetual motion machine. Now, are those people dumb? Mostly, the answer is no. Many of them are actually educated people, and often as not have tangentially related degrees (i.e. engineers). The only thing that they suffer from, other than a mild case of hubris, is the Dunning-Kruger effect, which seems to be a design flaw (lel) in the human brain rather than a character defect. What kind of freshman physics major doesn't think that they're going to invent a warp engine?
The only solution is education, which, upon consumption, tends to mellow into humility with repeated doses.
Morality without religion is a thing in some philosophical circles, and as a hard-nosed scientist I am not the best expert on modern thought in this direction. However, it only takes a little work to find some good summaries of people who have done work in this area. Like always with Wikipedia, the value isn't in the article itself, but in its value as an aggregator of source material. The "references" section is rich with informative goodness.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morality_without_religion
Among the philosophical arguments found there is this meatier nugget, a bit of science in the form of a paper from the journal Social Psychological and Personality Science, which you might find interesting.
My Brother's Keeper? Compassion Predicts Generosity More Among Less Religious Individuals
Laura R. Saslow, Robb Willer, Matthew Feinberg, Paul K. Piff, Katharine Clark, Dacher Keltner
and Sarina R. Saturn, Social Psychological and Personality Science published online 26 April 2012,
DOI: 10.1177/1948550612444137
A download-able PDF is hosted at UC-Berkely here:
http://www.religionfacts.com/big_religion_chart.htm
Moreover, there are a large number of religions and belief systems that have very little of what we'd recognize as the Divine Carrot and Stick, especially in the forms of Heaven and Hell. Many religions believe that the soul dissolves with the body at the time of death, notably Taoism, several of the western-style polytheisms, and some strains of Judaisim. Others believe that the afterlife is uniformly bad, regardless of how one lives ones life, such as Shintoism and the ancient Mayan religion (though you got a ticket to heaven if you were a sacrificial victim!). A nice summary of several world religions' views on the afterlife can be found here:
http://www.religionfacts.com/big_religion_chart.htm
Now, if you'll excuse me, there is a ravening horde of Taoists looting my car that I must attend to, brb.
sudopod
(5,019 posts)WillParkinson
(16,862 posts)You are the fount of good manners and courtesy, right? Lumping all atheists together is no different than lumping all religious people together.
I am an atheist. I am also a multiple winner of employee of the month at the hotel I work at because I exhibit great courtesy to our guests. Not because it's my job, but because I enjoy making the lives of people better.
Continue to think what you'd like, and I'm certain that you will, but know that you are showing a form of bigotry against something you clearly do not seem to understand.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)Last edited Tue Jun 12, 2012, 12:14 PM - Edit history (1)
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)"When you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to change your mind." Mark Twain
Is "normal people" just another way of saying a$$hole?
Because that is what I am getting from you.
sudopod
(5,019 posts)Morals are what you do because God is watching.
Ethics are what you do when no one is watching.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)I don't believe in gods, an afterlife, karma, justice, good, evil, or inherent meaning or value. You say there would be no need for any moral calculation, but I say moral calculations are strictly imaginary.
If you are basing your decisions off the concept of God or Karma, then I think you are already only basing your "morality" on nothing but pragmatism.
HuckleB
(35,773 posts)The way he treated me & the way I treated him, the way we took care of each other & our family, while he lived. That is so much more important than the idea I will see him someday. I dont think Ill ever see Carl again. But I saw him. We saw each other. We found each other in the cosmos, and that was wonderful.
-- Ann Druyan, talking about her husband, Carl Sagan
stopwastingmymoney
(2,044 posts)thank you
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)Many don't see it that way.
For beer drinkers the goal, apparently, is to "Grab the Gusto." For the military, it's to "Be All You Can Be." But, apart from the advertising slogans, many measure the quality of life, and happiness, in other ways.
The happiest people I know are those who value love and friendship and positive relationships and interactions with other people above money, wealth and toys.
They go out of their way to help other people instead of going out of their way to add misery to the lives of others. They measure 'winning' in terms of doing something positive with others, not in terms of beating others.
'Grabbing what you can' as a selfish, materially-oriented goal is no guarantee of happiness--but it is a common mistake...
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Speak for yourself. I plan to have them take what they can to help the living and whatever is left is either sent to a medical school as a cadaver or treated as medical waste.
RC
(25,592 posts)They, in turn would be more apt to make you life a little easier.
Makes sense to me. Your way seems to be counter productive and short lived in any case.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)Amazing that the fact that you are here and the atoms in your body are literally stardust. But no, that's not enough for you LOL.
I think you should start watching some videos like this-
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"Well it's true so..."
So very many people with so very many different beliefs say that precise thing daily. Vegas odds tell me that not all of you are correct...
Religion is the thing that produces moral calculation?
That's ridiculous.
Everyone rotting in the ground in less than 120 years forever is depressing? I guess. Doesn't mean it's not what happens and that that 120 yeas is not important.
UnrepentantLiberal
(11,700 posts)limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)n/t.
LeftinOH
(5,360 posts)Anne Frank would have been just as good.
magnifisense
(285 posts)Imagine that.
What he would have to say about the state of things today and the contribution he would have made commenting on today's current events.
I saw a documentary on George Harrison on HBO the other day. If only he were still with us too.
Give me love, give me peace on earth ...