But other than that its just a bunch of useless junk.

Even without a detachable magazine I can reload an sks in under 10 seconds. If I actually shot it more, Im sure I could get faster.

That is an impressive response to American gun-nuttery.

And I have to agree... none of that Tapco shit for me.

[img][/img]

It may have had a magazine conversion installed, or the shooter may have been loading via stripper clips. Either way, one could reload very quickly, and the result is still the same.

oiling their's up this weekend?

Literally 99% of US-imported SKSs are already out on the street, and have been for quite some time. Back in the 80s-90s they were extremely inexpensive (the best examples going from $150-$250). These days, they'll go for $400-$600 depending on the country of origin/condition.

The SKS was designed in ~1943, and has been available in the US since shortly after the production started.

Regarding the "oiling up" comment, most SKSs need "oiling down" due to the cosmoline grease they're stored in.

It wasn't intended to be impressive. Knowledge is never a bad thing.

You would actively advocate the populous being uninformed/ignorant on subjects you (Hoyt) deem appropriate?

For once, me and you agree on something.

Hence, the preoccupation of media outlets after a fatal stabbing to identify the weapon as a trench, throwing, steak, cheese, bayonet, butcher's, table, modeling, rigging, or katar knife.

We also especially enjoy the almost-sincere-sounding concerns regarding accurate usage of terminology in every discussions about knives used in fatal stabbing.

He's adding context to the thread, not lusting over them or attacking anyone for their views on gun control. Information only helps us make a stronger case against weapons like these.

I'm all for banning assault rifles like the AR-15 since that has been the weapon used in all of the most recent massacres. I've never heard of this gun before and would like to know more.

... was developed in WWII by the Russians, but didn't go into service until the late '40s. It didn't last long in Red Army service; the advent of the AK-47 made the SKS obsolete by virtue of the AK's detachable magazine and full-auto capability.

The SKS is not by any definition an "assault rifle," since that military definition designates a rifle that can fire in full-auto mode, nor is it an "assault weapon," since that legal definition only applies to semi-auto rifles that have detachable magazines. The standard SKS does not. If modified to take a detachable magazine, it would be classified as an "assault weapon" in some states and in proposed federal legislation. Hence the interest in the configuration of the Dallas shooter's rifle.

The SKS is functionally identical to the American M1 Garand, a WWII-era rifle that has been sold to US civilians through the government-chartered Civilian Marksmanship Program ever since it was phased out as military issue in the late '50s.



Both the SKS and the Garand are semi-auto rifles that have internal fixed (non-detachable) magazines. The Garand holds eight rounds, the SKS ten.

Was not used in Dallas or in Orlando

That'll work.

Otherwise, anything you propose will be overturned almost immediately as a violation of the second amendment.

You cannot propose any effective legislation without specifics, so get specific.

Either that or pass another "Assault Weapons Ban" that accomplished precisely nothing.

Maybe that's why the people that write laws make stupid ones like cosmetic bans. I think knowledge is a great thing.

Even those denying it for themselves and accuse others of it engage in it.

if using a weapon like that to kill police officers, as compared to people in a crowded nightclub, results in meaningful gun control?

Clearly those of us who've been wanting such gun control have been using all the wrong arguments. We should have realized these things could be used against officers of the law.

Of course then they became wildly popular.

rise in cops killing civilians, it was only a matter of time before something like Dallas happened. Sadly.

I don't think we have any actual data that show that, do we? I'd find it surprising since homicides in general (which includes shootings by cops, even "justified" ones) have fallen so much.

We've had police-sanctioned killings like the ones in Minnesota, Fergeson, etc, FOREVER. But in the past, it was brushed under the rug as a game of he said/she said, with the cops always being taken seriously and the victims or witnesses being ignored. The difference is that today we can watch the killings live, or within minutes of them happening, online, and can tap the outrage of millions across the entire country.

Clearly, the solution is to ban cell phone video of police killings

"...the best available data suggests that if police officers are being watched more closely, that hasn’t reduced the frequency with which they kill people. In fact, they might be killing people more often. And the people dying still are disproportionately black."

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-police-are-killing-people-as-often-as-they-were-before-ferguson/

more civilians are being killed by cops, that the number is steadily rising. Plus, of course, our hard-working and dedicated police kill more civilians every few days than other first world police kill in years.

And actually, I simply typed Has the number of civilians killed by cops increased? into Google, and immediately got a return linking to many articles that say yes.

So it's not just a reporting issue.

who WANT reasonable gun control, and have been working for it with our congress critters. The NRA/Rethugs ignore them too.

They KNOW their lives are on the line every minute they are in uniform in public, and the less firepower the other side has, the better chance they have of going home alive at the end of their shift.

And they know that laws, while imperfectly obeyed and enforced, do reduce the firepower available to criminals.

I have many in law enforcement, both active and retired, in my family.

America probably leads the free world in civilians killed by police. Too many roided up JBT's walking around in combat gear with jittery trigger fingers. I'm personally more afraid of police than of getting killed by some random nutjob in the mall.

I don't think that's going to happen. I would like to see them using the stun guns instead of the lethal weapon though.

If you like loading stripper clips :/
Shoots reliably and straight.

What is a stripper clip?

The standard SKS rifles has an internal fixed magazine of 10 rounds. The ammo be loaded into the magazine one at a time or with a stripper clip (or just clip).

Or you may end up with a dangerous gun that empties the magazine at a trigger pull.

Watching the gunners explain the technical specifications of the magazines is a truly remarkable spectacle of dumbshittery.

Be subject to the high capacity magazine bans that some propose or that a handful of states already enacted

It has nothing to do with a particular kind of ammo.

This has been the case for as long as I have been around guns.

Hows that for being less "coy"?

Know this now: My efforts to defend a reasonable interpretation of the Second Amendment WILL re-double.

And serves virtually no purpose

Do you have to have a background check to purchase alcohol? Does an agency track by serial number every bottle or can sold? Is hard alcohol forbidden to be manufactured for civilian production since 1986 and heavily regulated since the 1930s? It is idiotic to think firearms are not regulated. At least they do have a purpose, alcohol does not and kills tens of thousands yearly.

Please stop saying they are not.

Every large rifle round will go through a police bulletproof vest.

The technology just isn't there to design a vest to stop rifle rounds that is also small and lightweight.

Swat teams will wear a vest that will stop rifles, but they are only wearing it for short periods of time.

came home from Army boot camp with one. I put it on and I couldn't imagine having to fight a war with that much weight.

More if you are a large person.

They are rated only for hand guns. That is why the military uses heavy vests with additional hard plates.

Virtually ALL rounds fired from a rifle will penetrate a vest. What gets you through Kevlar vests isn't so much the construction of the bullet but the speed it's going, and longer barrels on rifles give much higher velocity than handguns. The steel cores some military-grade bullets utilize is to penetrate hard armor, like helmets and trauma plates.

The SKS is often used for hunting deer, firing softpoint or hollowpoint ammo, and these too would penetrate body armor:

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/policestuff_2421_31231771932

Now all we need is one of those on congressional staff, and some motivated congress critters to support it.

(I have several ideas and high confidence that I could solve it if given time to learn the domain. But I am kind of a troubleshooter like that in my real job.)

If someone wants to pay me reasonably (not even what I make today) to go to Congress to help them figure out how to write legislation, sure. (Just include relo in the offer.) I'm not holding my breath for that to happen though.

When I retire, if this is still a problem and we haven't blown the world up yet, maybe I'll just take it up as a hobby. Doubt I'll get anyone to listen to me though.

Not to mention magazines are a box that can legally be printed now. Give it a shot but it would not make a dent in any of this.

The first problem is legal; in that Courts have generally held that an exorbitant fees, or fees of any kind, cannot be charged for citizens to exercise a right. That's why poll taxes no longer exist. You are also basically implementing a law so that only rich people can exercise their right to own / use a firearm. I can't possibly see this type of restriction passing court muster.

The second problem is technological. Millions upon millions of magazine's already exist out there. As a pure guesstimate, I would assume each gun owner has 10 magazines for a type of rifle. Most will have fewer, but others will have many, many more than 10. So if there are 20 million AR's out there, you're looking at 200 million plus existing magazines.

And new magazines can easily be made with a 3D printer and a spring nowadays. It's only a matter of time until highly effective, reliable, and complete firearms can be made with 3D printers.

Most handguns have magazines bigger than 10 rounds. Not to mention the many types of rifles that have AK or other format magazines. Many, many magazines out there.

Because functionally, there is no difference between an SKS and a common deer hunting gun like this one, sold since the 1960's:

This is why terminology matters and why the gun control folks need to understand what they are talking about.

Much of post-enlightenment America: I emote, therefore I am.

I find it unsurprising that often people say "feel" where they'd have said "think" 50 years ago.

"I feel that the smith & Wesson 6-round assault revolver should be banned because of its nuclear-tipped grenades" cannot be wrong because you're challenging the validity of their feelings.

They generally have fixed magazines and lack pistol grips, which precludes categorization as an assault weapon.

assault weapon

period

like removing a bayonet lug or flash hider. Follow the letter of the law and legally sell a rifle that functioned the same with a couple of cosmetic changes.

nope

yup

assault weapon

yup

the gunners don't control the vocabulary anymore.

yup

yup

yup

That can be quickly reloaded via stripper clips being a non-assault weapon is not a mass murder weapon?

yup

But I do not think the actual weapon type has been publicly released.

tens of thousands of Americans killed by guns are a definition

by definition

we don't play your stupid games anymore

nope

yup

You need to change the law with your updated definition. That poster is just accurately pointing out the truth.

as should all gunz

LAW

yup