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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMADem
(135,425 posts)It happened quickly, but I could tell that she wasnt going to move, and it seemed like she was making her stand. To me it seemed like: Youre going to have to come and get me. And I just thought it seemed like this was a good place to get in position and make an image, just because she was there in her dress and you have two police officers in full riot gear.
It wasnt very violent. She didnt say anything. She didnt resist, and the police didnt drag her off.
The woman was released from police custody late Sunday evening, according to New York Daily News reporter Shaun King.
It's a very compelling photo. The contrast between the woman's light weight summer dress and that extra-heavy protective gear the police have on (no doubt on edge after the police shootings in Dallas) is quite stark.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Remind me which of these this is accomplishing?
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,088 posts)Her protest was very effective and peaceable. Her disobedience was civil.
The protesters who blocked the interstate and threw rocks and bottles at police were NOT peaceably assembling and did not peaceably disperse and did not peaceably accept arrest. Their disobedience was the opposite of civil.
The people's right to use public highways for the purpose the people intended for them (transportation) has priority when there are numerous other venues for people to peaceably assemble.
No right is absolute. There are Congressional laws prohibiting shouting "Fire" in crowded theaters (or enabling local jurisdictions to make and prosecute such laws). There are Congressional laws prohibiting the publication of national secrets.
sangfroid
(212 posts)Any SCOTUS decision limiting petitioning to government offices. In fact, it is generally argued they can take place anywhere. The action itself is the petitioning, not any faux handing over of a document with a lot of signatures.
The purpose of such demonstrations is to inconvenience the public, to draw their attention to what the demonstrators believe is a wrong. As a veteran road sitter myself (both Iraq Wars), I can tell you that nonviolent civil disobedience is not just a question of nicely dressed people standing in tidy groups in front of the courthouse waiting for the cops to arrive, where upon they all calmly and quietly climb into the paddy wagon. It also includes going limp, shouting slogans while in custody, refusing to cooperate with the booking system, extending solidarity to fellow prisoners, going on a hunger strike or pray-in while inside. These actions may not be "civil" according to your rather constricted definition, but they are certainly nonviolent disobedience.
And as for throwing bottles and rocks, did you know Martin Luther King Jr. Was a communist? Or that BLM is a black nationalist Marxist group? Or the POTUS is not an American? Yes, a cop told me...
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,088 posts)Technically, yes, "petitioning" is drawing the attention of the government to a cause or an issue, regardless of where it takes place.
But, in practice, the government holds office hours and makes available multiple ways to "petition" the government without creating a disturbance or a disruption.
That said, it does not mean that people can't make disturbances or disruptions. They can. But when they do, they must take responsibility and be prepared to suffer ordinary penalties. Additionally, they should not expect to but might risk suffering bad treatment at the hands of the authorities including excessive punishment, harsh handling, injury and death. Nobody should have to suffer such risks, but life is uncertain and the authorities employee an excessive number of bullies, racists, thugs and fascists. (Note: even one is too many.)
Correct.
True.
Those are all valid protest actions. Going limp is an excellent tactic because it is non-resisting but increases the delay and inconvenience. Solidarity is always desirable. Shouting slogans is part of solidarity and effectively promotes the cause. Hunger strikes are very risky and not so effective so I do not recommend them. The only effect of praying is to provide comfort to those who believe in prayer.
Yup. With the emphasis on non-violent. Very civil according to my definition which matches with the generally accepted definition of civil disobedience.
As to that, it is a bunch of gobbledy-gook that has no relationship to the rest of your otherwise excellent post.
trumad
(41,692 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(49,088 posts)trumad
(41,692 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(49,088 posts)gopiscrap
(23,768 posts)SickOfTheOnePct
(7,290 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(49,088 posts)Craig234
(335 posts)I do think we need to value other forms or protest more than getting arrested.
We're supposed to use rational argument for issues.
Someone standing where they're told not to and getting arrested for it getting the lion's share of the media coverage over the actual merits of the issue seems like a mistake.
It doesn't take anything away from the people who act on principle and make that sacrifice while it is so recognized as an action.
But it seems like a misguided price to demand for publicity.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Craig234
(335 posts)There's nothing that makes getting arrested a more valuable bit of information than someone stating their position.
It just has a cost to them, and to society - it has a false air of nobility.
What I mean by false air isn't meant to take away from the protester and their principles.
What I mean is that it's more meaningful as a sort of 'protest when rational communication fails'. The Chinese guy who stood in front of the tank, they had few options either - they tried and got killed in Tiananmen Square.
But it's a sort of pointless ritual when it's drive by media and citizens who just react to it and not to the issues.
It's sort of like they hold up a hoop and say "we don't care what you have to say, but jump through this hoop and get arrested for ignoring the police enforcing the law, and we'll report that."
It seems to have become a sort of inflated ritual for us. "Sure you were against injustice, but did you get arrested for it?"
It's destructive in my opinion to buy into it when there isn't a specific reason for it other than to get media attention for the issue - it devalues the people who have the same position but don't want change, asking people to pointlessly get arrested.
Lochloosa
(16,086 posts)IronLionZion
(45,674 posts)SheriffBob
(552 posts)I love all nurses. They are all angels to me.
glowing
(12,233 posts)If this young lady didn't have a "Malia Obama" look to her, a lighter color, and a thinner frame, along with a dress looking like she came from a church social, I don't think people would be as "wowed" by the young lady. The contrast is dramatic with the police and her peaceful and proud presence, but I wonder if the photographer would have stopped to shoot this photo if this young lady didn't appear as she did?
GaYellowDawg
(4,452 posts)People are always more "wowed" by aesthetics. Do you think that the appeal or effectiveness of the photo is limited to white people? And why complain if an image is appealing to white people? Wouldn't you think that's a good thing, as white people are the ones who need the most to become more aware?
And on a total side note, not meant to distract from the point: I can't speak for all white people, but I find a lot of colors, from very pale to very dark, very appealing if someone's skin is healthy. Being cis and hetero, I find a wide variety of female shapes and colors appealing. Beauty comes in an amazing number of packages. I just wish a wide variety of shapes and colors found me appealing!
Ellen Forradalom
(16,161 posts)Firmly in command of herself, thus the situation.
The composition of the photo also heightens the contrast between her, stable and balanced on her feet, and the cops, reeling and staggering.
That is a function not simply of her physique, but how she inhabits it.
barbtries
(28,824 posts)it looks as if they can't even walk right.
DinahMoeHum
(21,842 posts)From 2014, but still relevant. . .
marble falls
(57,626 posts)Ohioblue22
(1,430 posts)barbtries
(28,824 posts)BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)As opposed to others like this one:
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2705784.1468121587!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_750/police-shootings-louisiana.jpg
Or this one:
IronLionZion
(45,674 posts)and it has a bigger contrast with the cops looking more hostile
In_The_Wind
(72,300 posts)Midnight Writer
(21,878 posts)Easy answer
oberliner
(58,724 posts)With everything else about the image being the same?
Somehow, I don't think so.
trumad
(41,692 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(49,088 posts)See the guy with the tanks. Not overweight, but male and in very dull clothing.
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Single recent example.
Ohioblue22
(1,430 posts)Evergreen Emerald
(13,071 posts)Seriously. Fk-ing cowards?
Ohioblue22
(1,430 posts)Seriously look how the police are dressed
Evergreen Emerald
(13,071 posts)Do you expect them to change clothes when she walked up? Remember that in Dallas, they were not wearing the riot gear. They were vulnerable to attack. We need to get rid of the citizenry use of military weaponry.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)Absolutely stunning.
Zambero
(8,982 posts)Peaceful freedom of expression confronted by colossal overkill. This one needs to go viral.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)She will soon be on talk shows; most believe the tank guy was executed. After the Chinese government slaughtered thousands of its own citizens.
Zambero
(8,982 posts)However, the reactions to the two footages might be more similar than you realize. I can't speak for others, but it It certainly was for me. Repression takes on many forms. It does not have to be lethal in order to be overkill. Implied violence toward those who dare "Step over the line" is still intimidation. Hopefully it does not escalate further, on the basis of so-called "outside agitators" who are no less entitled to exercise their Constitutional and civil rights.
MirrorAshes
(1,262 posts)There she is, standing tall and unafraid, while they falter under the weight of their militarized fear. Beautiful.
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)but most to all things are as well. We see and understand things from our own experiences and belief systems.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)K and R
Moostache
(9,897 posts)Perfect calm, perfect posture, steadfast expression. The juxtaposition of the calm citizen and a police force and charging officers dressed for mortal combat speaks volumes of where justice lies in this issue. It is often said that long term trends bend towards justice - civil rights, voting rights, women's suffrage, gay marriage, etc.
In this image, pretty woman or not (which is largely subjective and in the eye of the beholder), thin or not (which some find as a hallmark of 'beauty' and others not so much), what captures my attention is that juxtaposition that I see. This is bound to become an icon image, and I hope it garners as much attention as possible.
raven mad
(4,940 posts)Her strength and incandescence are an inspiration to everyone. Beauty and compassion of soul and heart vs. militarized combat cops. Absolutely an inspiration, trumad, thanks so much for this. Yes, this old white hippie remembers that the bad old days are still here.
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)As I look at that photograph.
edit to add:
It calls to every archetypal image humans have revered for many thousands of years.
ailsagirl
(22,911 posts)Response to trumad (Original post)
Th1onein This message was self-deleted by its author.
colorado_ufo
(5,746 posts)and that was my first impression. Amazing, iconic. A new Lady for our times, clutching her cell phone - a symbol of free speech and communication - in one hand, the other gracefully open and accepting.
The power of God and good flows through her. She stood up not just for Black people, but for America, for all people, and for me. And I thank her.