General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forumsare we ready for reparations?
or should we just see how things play out?
Lance Bass esquire
(671 posts)Any talk of such things is all it will ever be..just talk.
brush
(53,978 posts)Whose ancestors had their labor stolen for hundreds of years of uncompensated work, and were therefore not able to past anything down to descendants (considering the principle of compounding, that wealth if it came due would bust the treasury. If paid though, African Americans as a whole would be on more equal footing economically with the larger society whose wages weren't stolen, but who's counting).
The peeps who for decades were denied mortgages because of racism and were again, unable to build wealth to pass down to their children?
Try reading Ta-neshi Coates article on reparations.
The legacy of enslavement is still having devastating effects in the black community.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/06/the-case-for-reparations/361631/
Excellent response to a ridiculous post. Thank you!
OhioBlue
(5,126 posts)I read it all and it is very enlightening. I don't know how I feel about reparations, but I do think John Conyer's HR 40 should be passed for a study and national conversation.
840high
(17,196 posts)craigmatic
(4,510 posts)Lance Bass esquire
(671 posts)reddread
(6,896 posts)the most highly regarded acronym on the internet.
nicely played.
Lance Bass esquire
(671 posts)brush
(53,978 posts)Then get back to us.
Waldorf
(654 posts)brush
(53,978 posts)If you read it before ok, but you couldn't have finished it that quickly since I posted the link.
But don't bother responding.
I'm not interested in you and privilege anymore.
citood
(550 posts)And on the other side, my ancestor arrived here in the middle of the civil war and served in the Union army.
Would I be expected to help pay for reparations? Do you see how complicated this gets real fast? Especially since our largest immigration waves came after the civil war.
brush
(53,978 posts)Ever heard of the Dawes Rolls?
They're researched and document lists that prove membership of Native American tribes.
The same can be done for descendants of enslaved African Americans whose labor was stolen.
Very doable. And of course citizen would not pay for it. The government and corporate descendants that enforced slavery and wage theft, and/or profited by wage theft (and there are many institutions and corporations whose roots can be traced to this that are still extant).
citood
(550 posts)But that has nothing to do with the question I posed.
You do understand that if the government pays reparations, that means we all pay reparations, don't you?
JI7
(89,290 posts)years after the civil war.
citood
(550 posts)You could go out and donate money to a civil rights organization tomorrow, no big deal and nobody else's business. But reparations are meant to right a wrong...a wrong performed by the payer of the reparations. Practically, reparations cannot be voluntary.
rep·a·ra·tion
repəˈrāSH(ə n
noun
the making of amends for a wrong one has done, by paying money to or otherwise helping those who have been wronged.
So, while you might have no problem paying yourself, would you be in favor of making others pay? How about a first generation immigrant family, recently arrived from some war zone. Should their tax dollars be used for reparations? What about Native Americans...many still living on reservations and hardly enjoying any of the fruits of slave labor - should their tax dollars be used for reparations?
Its too complicated and way too much time has passed for anything even close to fair being worked out.
JI7
(89,290 posts)Lance Bass esquire
(671 posts)My family was also..enslaved...butchered, gassed and had our farms taken away.
That's life.
No one owes us a damn thing.
We are over it...nothing to see here...move on.
Good luck with your cause.
brush
(53,978 posts)Jews were justly paid reparations by Germany.
Japanese Americans were justly compensated by our government for WWll internment.
Why shouldn't African Americans also be justly compensated for hundreds of years of stolen labor?
It's racism in itself for it to be ok for other ethnic groups but not for African Americans.
What is with the automatic "no" from so many when the subject of just compensation for African Americans is raised?
And I'm not talking about checks being cut to individuals but for better neighborhood schools, college funds, small business grants, community facilities that benefit neighborhoods.
Lance Bass esquire
(671 posts)That my friend is comedy gold.
Response to Lance Bass esquire (Reply #18)
Post removed
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)Seriously??
The Institute for Historical Review (IHR), founded in 1978, is an organization primarily devoted to publishing and promoting books and essays described by critics as pseudo-historical that attack the mainstream historical consensus concerning the Nazi genocide of Jews.[2][3][4][5][6] It is considered by many scholars as the center of the international Holocaust denial movement.[2][7][8] IHR is widely regarded as antisemitic and as having links to neo-Nazi organizations. The Institute published the Journal of Historical Review until 2002, but now disseminates its materials through its website and via email. The Institute is affiliated with the Legion for the Survival of Freedom and Noontide Press.[9]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_for_Historical_Review
brush
(53,978 posts)people held in labor camps during WWll were not "comedy gold" as he mockingly wrote.
He didn't seem to be aware of that history.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)and not just any holocaust denial site, possibly THE birthplace of holocaust denial.
Come on now.
Lance Bass esquire
(671 posts)of my clan that survived. Sitting on my uncles lap and wondering what that tattoo was on his arm. Wondering why he had weird fake teeth. I wouldn't have understood why they were pulled out as a form of torture.
When I got older they explained to me what happened and why every 10 years people in my family go to visit a camp in Poland because that's where family members are buried in mass graves.
My family never blamed.
They never felt sorry for themselves.
That's life.
Some live..some die..you move on.
That's what I know.
840high
(17,196 posts)brush
(53,978 posts)AntiBank
(1,339 posts)what's next a Stormfront Appreciation Group???
you are one messed up human
Dyedinthewoolliberal
(15,619 posts)being justly compensated; that ain't what I've heard from those who know.....
brush
(53,978 posts)There was compensation paid. Maybe not what the recipients thought was enough, but funds were paid.
Nothing was paid to African Americans.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)Sorry, but I don't trust your information. At all.
Dyedinthewoolliberal
(15,619 posts)I'm not about to give you Mr. Hanamoto's phone number if that's what you mean......
Lance Bass esquire
(671 posts)I lost a mouth full of coffee on the Mr Hanamoto reply.
Dyedinthewoolliberal
(15,619 posts)Chathamization
(1,638 posts)That was only a few decades earlier than the Holocaust. Not saying that it's not a good idea to talk about reparations, though.
LexVegas
(6,121 posts)reddread
(6,896 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I'd imagine simply due to the consistency of narrative in your posts, regardless of presumptions.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)From memory, cumulated enslavement since Antiquity by origin of merchants:
Arab/Muslim merchants: 25M, African merchants: 20M, Euro/American 15M
(numbers rough order of magnitude from memory of study by Petre-Grenouillau)
Who is going to organize a fair system of reparation?
How does one track the descendants of slaves? Of enslavers?
Obama is a descendant of both: does he both pay and collect?
X_Digger
(18,585 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)SheilaT
(23,156 posts)That's not to say there still aren't huge injustices, but reparations are not the way to go.
And as someone else has already pointed out, how about those with one white and one black parent? Plus, my own grandparents arrived from Ireland more than a generation after the end of slavery in this country. Many millions of others arrived well after the Civil War. I don't feel especially responsible for what happened so long ago.
I have no problems whatsoever about affirmative action, and to all those who cry about how unfair it is, I invite them to look around and show me the corporate suites that aren't still almost totally male and white. Or look at legislatures from the Congress on down. Still almost entirely white and male.
As for the Supreme Court, I honestly think that going forward Presidents should only nominate women, and once we have a 9 woman Supreme Court, it should last that way for going on 200 years. That would be fair.
Here's something else, that is perhaps slightly aligned with the notion of reparations: We should have a guaranteed minimum income. Or if that's too horrifying to contemplate, then every person should be eligible for and receive SNAP (food stamps). Those well enough off not to need them can pass them on to those who do. But just as Social Security and Medicare are not and should never be means tested, there are certain basic things that all citizens should receive.
1939
(1,683 posts)The amount you pay for Medicare Part B per month in 2016 is based on your gross income reported on your 2014 income tax return.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)I had to pay a higher premium myself.
Thanks for pointing that out.
aikoaiko
(34,186 posts)Reparations can take different forms and not just writing a big check.
It could include special programs that target black Americans access to resources and opportunities.
1939
(1,683 posts)LuvNewcastle
(16,869 posts)to the Indians first. I guess we can pay some reparations with whatever the Indians let us have. We can't wipe all tears away and right all wrongs in life. It doesn't work that way. You play the hand you're dealt.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)LuvNewcastle
(16,869 posts)so that's why I used that term. He didn't like to be called Native American because his ancestors were here long before there was a concept of America. He hated to be called indigenous. I meant no offense, and I'll gladly call people whatever they prefer to be called.
tblue37
(65,556 posts)unjustly harassing, jailing, and killing black people in the US, and maybe stop trying to deprive them in every way possible of their right to vote.
I bet that a lot of black people would be satisfied--nay, thrilled with such an outcome.
Unfortunately, police harassment, inappropriate and unjust incarceration, and extrajudicial killing of unarmed and innocent black people are as likely to stop in this country as reparations for centuries of stolen labor and oppression are to be offered.
AntiBank
(1,339 posts)this post is pure shitstir
de recced
jack_krass
(1,009 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)How much am I going to get? Bring it!