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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTruck terrorist "not a Muslim" .. beat his wife, drank alcohol, ate pork, took drugs..
Truck terrorist who murdered 84 people in a horrific drive along the Nice seafront drank alcohol, ate pork and took drugs - all banned by Islam
A cousin of his estranged wife said 'he was not a Muslim, he was a s***'
Revealed he didn't go to the mosque and didn't pray or observe Ramadan
The couple had separated after reports of domestic abuse two years ago
Detectives raided the family home in Nice and took his wife into protective custody
Truck terrorist Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel was an 'unlikely jihadist' who flouted every rule of Islam, his cousin told MailOnline today.
The 31-year-old - who wreaked terror on the Nice seafront as he turned an evening celebrating Bastille Day into a night of terror in which he murdered 84 innocent people - drank alcohol, ate pork and took drugs.
He never prayed or attended a mosque, and hit his wife - with whom he had three children - and was in the process of getting a divorce.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3691895/He-drank-alcohol-ate-pork-took-drugs-NOT-Muslim-Truck-terrorist-Mohamed-Lahouaiej-Bouhlel-s-cousin-reveals-unlikely-jihadist-beat-wife-NEVER-went-mosque.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline
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I doubt this guy had any connection to ISIS or any other terror group.
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)adigal
(7,581 posts)Warpy
(111,480 posts)Here in the US, they just kill the wife and kids instead of letting their property get away from them. Muslims have the Jihadi crap blasted at them and it's as pervasive as the Jesus crap is here and this punk got drunk and thought if he killed a bunch of innocent people, they'd be his ticket into heaven no matter how worthless he was because he'd be a martyr.
Thanks to the Saudis and their funding, the most poisonous form of Islam has been pushed around the world for decades. Thanks to us, our bloated military, and all those nitwits driving oversized vehicles, the money kept on rolling in so they could do that.
6chars
(3,967 posts)lindysalsagal
(20,803 posts)I understand that the courtroom and police implications of the war on drugs has failed. I get all that, but I really fear a drugged society.
theaocp
(4,252 posts)Otherwise, you're just fear mongering. You seem to be on the side of prohibition. I fear a society with open access to alcohol. Your thoughts?
ProfessorGAC
(65,466 posts)He was taking the drugs anyway. So, legal or illegal, he got what he wanted.
Your concern doesn't make sense to me.
Mika
(17,751 posts)argyl
(3,064 posts)Democat
(11,617 posts)Isn't it was part of many right wing religions?
argyl
(3,064 posts)not illegal drugs. The post I was responding to expressed a fear of legalization of drugs. The most dangerous drug I know of is alcohol and it's quite legal and readily available.
Ever heard of a mean pot smoker? If you have then he must really be a terror when straight.
As far as this guy's or anyone else's religion is concerned I don't give a damn.
get the red out
(13,468 posts)It seems normal with religious extremists.
Festivito
(13,452 posts)Check out Portugal, and then Nixon folk.
A lot of people make money keeping drugs illegal, but it started for other reasons.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)we already have a drugged society-fully done up by LEGAL drugs.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Statistical
(19,264 posts)the "good ones" = alcohol is not so good. Honestly nobody objectively would make alcohol legal and marijuana illegal. Either they would both be legal or they both would be banned. We just operate this way because it is the way it has always been.
Calculating
(2,957 posts)Where is any kind of proof that drugs caused him to do this? Drugs were only mentioned because it's unislamic to take them.
Wilms
(26,795 posts)Perhaps we took the same logic course in college.
Glassunion
(10,201 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Trust me, the drug that is most likely to cause people to go on violent rampages, is already legal.
lindysalsagal
(20,803 posts)I just think we're in bad enough shape, already.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Nice try.
yardwork
(61,821 posts)Really. I can't think of anybody, ever, who went on a murderous rampage because they used marijuana.
Alcohol, every day. Certain other drugs, yes.
Pot smokers are more likely to eat a box of Oreos and take a nap.
lindysalsagal
(20,803 posts)Maybe not every time but they do. We're better off sober.
Not saying I know what the answer is but we're better off sober.
True Earthling
(832 posts)I doubt the cousin knew this guy like a book..people can get religion real fast by just listening to a sermon/lecture or watching a few videos.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)imo.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)Demanded to know what radio stations some murderers listened to, or what books they had on their bookshelves, or whether they donated to certain politicians.
When certain people are motivated, they can associate anything with anything.
Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)Last edited Fri Jul 15, 2016, 01:56 PM - Edit history (1)
Africa in the past 200 years up until the late 1950s.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)stand out between that film and current events in France?
Not the underlying story, but the guerilla methods of terrorism? The fact that it's a French language film, one of the most critically-revered award-winning films, and that it portrayed hostilities between muslims and French colonialists - these are all just a little too coincidental.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)to add it to my list of films to watch again.
I'm a teacher with students from France and students from the former French colonial possessions in North Africa (currently Morocco and Cameroon) and it breaks my heart to see this play itself out. I feel so bad for my students. On a slightly positive note, they seem to bear one another no ill will.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)The raw honesty of the story is so riveting, and the fact that it's 50 years old this year ... isn't THAT something?! Cheers.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)I'm not moved.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)imo.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Nice to meet you.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Nor did I claim to be.
There is no easy criteria by which one may be excluded from a religion. Simply disobeying the rules isn't enough, as any Catholic Mafioso will tell you. You can be bad at being Muslim and still be a Muslim.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)I get it.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)You don't know the contents of a person's mind. You have no objective criteria by which to measure the veracity of another's beliefs.
Also, I can't think of a single reason why a person who doesn't believe in God would be screaming "God is great".
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)You are the one arguing otherwise, whether you see it or not. I have a very objective perspective, and I think yours is lasered focused.
I can easily think in a human behavior that would allow a person that is not religious at all, but hateful, and wanting to murder (lash out, cause pain), using a religion to validate that behavior.
We hear and see it often in the west with Christianity. I think we have ample proof that people are just murdering assholes, using religion to justify their behavior.
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)Sorry, but no. Humans are not "just murdering assholes". No reputable psychologist on the face of the fucking planet would agree with a single word you've said.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)and hurt others is pretty much a norm. If you would research behavior, you would find that psychologists consistently state that men in pain, lash out, .... Women in pain and destructive with self. But yes, those in pain can use that pain to want to hurt others.
No, I do not think that psychologists would disagree with that. That has to do with human condition, not religion nor politics.
RussBLib
(9,064 posts)you said
I can't think of a single reason why a person who doesn't believe in God would be screaming "God is great"
one, just to fuck with people
two, they are very confused and conflicted individuals
TipTok
(2,474 posts)There are no hard and fast rules so if someone identifies as Christian, Muslim or Pastafarian...
Then they are...
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)are going to validate their desire to do wrong, however will pacify their guilt. To ignore that and state all it takes is a moment of declaration is lazy and incomplete thinking.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)TipTok
(2,474 posts)Otherwise you get into all this "No true Scotsman/Muslim/Christian" garbage...
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Some of us actually take the time to go beyond the black and white of an issue, hence being able to get to the root and solving, or working to solve instead of escalating because the whole of the discussion is not being had.
TipTok
(2,474 posts)... but in the end folks will decide based on their own prejudices.
If you're sympathetic then a islamic suicide bomber was not part of the true faith.
If you hate their guts then he obviously was.
No objective standards so you have to go to the bare minimum.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)any of your categories.
If he is angry at the Western world thru his culture and religion, that is one motive.
If the motive is he is angry because he is a drunk, with a drunks mentality of the world picking on him and pissed that his wife got away from him and he could not beat her anymore, and wanting to take it out on the world? Then that is a whole other story.
I do choose not to be one of those that makes my decision from personal perspectives.
Marr
(20,317 posts)Like the fact that the men who trained with an avowedly Muslim militant organization, then came to the US and died in a suicide attack while shouting, "God is great" were pretty fucking religious.
Seriously, if *that* doesn't qualify as proof of authentic religious devotion, I don't what does.
Your argument belongs in a philosophy class on solipsism, not a political discussion.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)I do not get what your argument is. This one, the motivation appears to be different than the motivation of 9/11.
puffy socks
(1,473 posts)don't drink. You're thinking of Catholics and Baptists
oberliner
(58,724 posts)You obviously do not know anything about Islam.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)They were incensed at the paintings of nude women in the hotel and demanded that management remove them. They compromised by covering the paintings with a sheet.
Then, a few hours later, they had escorts come to the room.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)DCBob
(24,689 posts)Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)And its applied by those attempting to strike a certain religion from the record.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)Deleted.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)citood
(550 posts)prayin4rain
(2,065 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)They are all unstable people filled with rage and hate.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Male perpetrators?
Oops... didn't drive the narrative you're looking for. So sorry.
underahedgerow
(1,232 posts)No other single one thing ties together all the mass murderers, spree killers and terrorists alike in recent events. Just the gender.
I can't actually recall a female ever doing such a thing... If anyone does, remind me, so I can correct this posit.
Marengo
(3,477 posts)OldEurope
(1,273 posts)...there was Hasna Ait Boulahcen who helped her cousin, but did not commit any shooting or bombings.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34877374
Also, we had several female terrorists in Europe in the 1970 - 1990 years. But they claimed to be from the extreme left, of course, not from the religious side. And they did not want to kill random passers-by, they concentrated on politicians and economic leaders such as bankers. But they did not hesitate to kill personnel such as chauffeurs or security staff.
underahedgerow
(1,232 posts)Horrifying and sickeningly ironic.
'He's NOT my BOYFRIEND!' Bam.
Yes, terribly insensitive, I know. Apologies in advance, etc, etc.
Still, all males.
Go Vols
(5,902 posts)http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/08/world/africa/boko-haram-suicide-bombers.html?_r=0
jmg257
(11,996 posts)He told officers that he was delivering ice-cream to the area and was allowed to park on the waterfront for several hours.
The killer, who was previously known to police for violence and theft, is reported to have had assault rifles, a pistol and even a grenade with him in the lorry - but they went undiscovered.
Despite allegedly questioning the driver, police officers in the southern French city did nothing to move him on as he waited to begin the attack.
underahedgerow
(1,232 posts)Ridiculously simple excuse to park though, right?
'What if the cops had just opened the door to check the ice cream. Sitting in a non-refrigerated truck'.
Things would have been so different. But by that note, now cops WILL check the contents of trucks from now on, you can bet. Lessons learned.
What if. Shoulda, coulda, woulda.
We still expect people to tell the truth and to be honest, I guess.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)It's amazing how many people, including LE, are surprised that shit like this happens - in the ways it does...some things seem pretty f&^%ing obvious.
Democat
(11,617 posts)Does that make them not Christians if they commit a crime?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)suggesting they are any more religious than another? I know lots of people that know nothing in the bible, do not go to church, do hateful things, then claim Christianity as an excuse for hateful behavior. So what, a human behavior. No more or less. Validation for their ugliness. We can surely understand that.
REP
(21,691 posts)All Christians, all killing (or attempting to kill and bombing) in the name of their beliefs.
Dorian Gray
(13,542 posts)flout the rules? News articles all say they take crazy drugs to keep them awake, and "marry" prosititutes to have sex. It's not shocking that a murderous deranged asshole might flout all the other rules. Plus, martyrdom forgives all their transgressions.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)but they are "building" an Islamic caliphate.
That's their purpose.
And they do a whole lot of shitty things in the name of Islam.
And it looks like this guy murdered 80+ people in the name of Islam, even if he is a shitty muslim.
well they have a different opinion on that.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)They are in theirs.
JanMichael
(24,902 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Defining the real from the not real Muslims.
B2G
(9,766 posts)he openly subscribes to Sharia, goes to the mosque every week and publicly declares his allegiance to radical Islam.
I mean, what better way to fly under radar, right?
Some people...
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)ALCHOL is specifically forbidden, which is why all those Muslim countries helped pioneer hash and heroin -- perfectly acceptable with a literal understanding.
The marry a prostitute thing and then divorcing her? A loophole exploited all across the Muslim world for centuries or millennia. Iran actually has government employees to perform oversee the marriage/prostitution/divorce process.
MowCowWhoHow III
(2,103 posts)And psah to the reports of him screaming Allahu Akbar! Everyone knows that translates literally into "This has nothing to do with Islam!"
B2G
(9,766 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)looking for clarification.
B2G
(9,766 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)You are the first who has stated this. Thanks.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)That's perfectly routine in a situation like this.
Response to DCBob (Original post)
Post removed
FLPanhandle
(7,107 posts)Nice try though.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)or the underlying desires of the terrorists willing to kill in their name. As long as there's a high body count,they're cool.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)where the people are coming from, for sure.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)auntpurl
(4,311 posts)I'll give you two guesses. First doesn't count.
underahedgerow
(1,232 posts)ago.
I hit the nail on the head.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1519415
Apparently, I'm a really terrible person if I don't call a guy who killed lots of other people a terrorist.
I went on to speculate in my original post this precise behavioral/psychological profile.
All I can do is shake my head.
I'm VERY glad it wasn't terrorists, that it was just a lone crazed guy. The loss of life, the horror, the mayhem and the carnage are horrific. But I'm really glad there aren't any isis nutters out there roaming the streets trying to kill more people (that we know of) in civilized societies, at this moment, that we know of (ptoo, ptoo, ptoo for luck).
Live another day.
Democat
(11,617 posts)The only people commenting are a few relatives, one of whom may have been arrested according to some sources.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)people (that we know of) in civilized societies"
Yeah - lets go with that.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)First you claimed you were ALWAYS RIGHT about these things and claimed it's DEFINITELY not terrorism with absolutely zero proof. I see you're here on another thread doing the same thing. Me? I would stop before I continued to embarrass myself further but you go ahead and do whatever you like.
underahedgerow
(1,232 posts)Are you calling them liars? Are you calling the original poster of this thread a liar?
Are you calling me a liar? If not liars, then, well, what?
You can call me arrogant, over-confident, or all sorts of (banned) names, but I'm not a liar. Maybe I just know more about stuff than you do.
Now, behave yourself. No sense getting all worked up over this. You'll be just fine.
Rex
(65,616 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)head hard enough to deal with this nonsense. The original poster is only posting what's been recorded - NOT THAT IT'S THE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH. YOU are the only one playing that game and claiming that YOU and ONLY YOU know what the truth is and that you're ALWAYS RIGHT when in the real world, you don't know crap. Stop digging.
longship
(40,416 posts)The root of all evil.
That, and shellfish.
And don't get me started about different clothing fibers.
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)Oneironaut
(5,550 posts)I wouldn't necessarily say that this sort of behavior means someone "isn't a Muslim." I'm sure he was a total loser, though, which probably caused him to become a jihadist in the first place.
ck4829
(35,098 posts)Even on this very thread, people are constructing and making their 'borders'.
It is very much up to Muslims and non-Muslims where the borders of "Muslim" lie, it doesn't benefit us and the majority of Muslims to put Daesh, members, and others on the inside of the "Muslim" border.
TubbersUK
(1,439 posts)The prosecutor says that Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel was known to police and the courts due to threats, violence and petty theft between 2010 and 2016.
He was detained on the 23rd of March on 2016 and sentenced to six months, for a road rage incident. There was an altercation between him and another driver and he hurled a wooden pallet at the man, Urvoas told reporters.
He had also been detained for voluntary violence with weapon and that was in January 2016.
Authorities were not aware that he had ever shown a sign of radicalization, he continues.
He arrived alone by bike, [and] this bike was then found alone in the truck. The truck was seen at about 10.30 in Nice before it went to the promenade.
Police are investigating his residence and found more documents and electronic material there, he adds.
These materials are of course being investigated We must determine whether there were any accomplices or any links to Islamist terrorist organizations.
He notes that there have been no claims of responsibility, though the attack mirrors past terror attacks. He takes no questions.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/14/nice-bastille-day-france-attack-promenade-des-anglais-vehicle
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)It is the fringe that wants to show how devout they are; are the more dangerous ones.
Pakistan for example, was founded by a whiskey-drinking, cigar smoking, womanizing barrister from Mumbai who suddenly found religion to be a convenient excuse to stroke his ego by being the prime minister of Pakistan. He had almost never gone to a mosque but was happy in the founding of an Islamic Republic which has become a terrorist swamp.
True observers of Islam are normal, gentle people who cannot express how much the terrorists hurt their religion.
kimbutgar
(21,290 posts)The_Casual_Observer
(27,742 posts)The press was absolutely begging for more terrorists.
Had this happened in Baghdad nobody would even know about it, but since it was
Wealthy tourists we are treated to a visit by John Kerry.
totodeinhere
(13,059 posts)http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/nice-attacker-mohamed-lahouaiej-bouhlel-article-1.2712654
The_Casual_Observer
(27,742 posts)senseandsensibility
(17,260 posts)Thanks.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)tenderfoot
(8,443 posts)eom
0rganism
(23,996 posts)all over the place, these fake Scotsmen with their polyester bagpipes and paisley kilts. you just can't get a True Scotsman anywhere these days.
whistler162
(11,155 posts)that is Muslim in ancestry only.
maxsolomon
(33,475 posts)by birth and upbringing, but not in practice. He was Tunisian; he was Arab. This is as much about Sunni Arab ethnicity as Islam.
If he's trying to make amends for his lack of religiousity, or taking revenge for injustices committed by 'Crusaders', the No True Scotsman fallacy is another tired deflection.
Own it, Islam.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)he couldn't beat her any more?
maxsolomon
(33,475 posts)It's likely he was, at least in part, motivated by fundament Sunni tactics and propaganda, in addition to the specifics of his own miserable life. Are you contending it's NOT likely?
I get it: never blame the religion or its adherents without direct proof. That religion, however, is singularly maladapted to the modern world.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)lashing out, which has nothing to do with an aunt and balls.
Blame the religion when that is the motive. Assuming and drawing judgment without fact is stupid.
maxsolomon
(33,475 posts)I don't think I was stupid then or now.
You have to be angry to be a mass murderer. That's a given. Motives are convoluted, and ultimately unknowable, in all these cases.
Speculation is human nature.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)When I get info that contradicts, then it becomes further evidence. Otherwise it is simply a guess. And facts has nothing to do with that but what your motivation is.
maxsolomon
(33,475 posts)At the very least. If I learn of contradicting information, of course I'll revise my speculation.
Your "reserve judgment at all costs" approach puts you in a shrinking minority.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Nothing like making shit up to bring in the win.
maxsolomon
(33,475 posts)here, have the last word...
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)Yes, he probably was all those things, so in order to get out of Hell, he had to do something big to please Allah.
RussBLib
(9,064 posts)Reminds me of the 9/11 Saudi hijackers who were said to be partying in New York in strip clubs. They partake of all the wickedness as a cover, then spring the terror shit on you.
Just speculating.
Either way he's definitely a pathetic SOB.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)mwrguy
(3,245 posts)totodeinhere
(13,059 posts)Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)Ex Lurker
(3,817 posts)and here it is.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,387 posts)But the murderous raping thugs still claim to be Muslim.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)The only requirement to be a Muslim is to accept that there is no God by Allah and that Mohammed was his prophet.
By saying that, you become a Muslim.
mainer
(12,038 posts)The real thing that connects them all is violence against, and fear/hatred of /rejection by women. Yep, the women made him do it.
JI7
(89,290 posts)Idon't think these things make them less Muslims or less catholic. It just means religion doesnt mean someone is good.