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Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 12:26 PM Jun 2012

A Yemini democracy activist writes an open letter to Obama (NY Times op ed)

How Drones Help Al Qaeda
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/14/opinion/how-drones-help-al-qaeda.html?_r=1

“DEAR OBAMA, when a U.S. drone missile kills a child in Yemen, the father will go to war with you, guaranteed. Nothing to do with Al Qaeda,” a Yemeni lawyer warned on Twitter last month. President Obama should keep this message in mind before ordering more drone strikes like Wednesday’s, which local officials say killed 27 people, or the May 15 strike that killed at least eight Yemeni civilians.

Drone strikes are causing more and more Yemenis to hate America and join radical militants; they are not driven by ideology but rather by a sense of revenge and despair. Robert Grenier, the former head of the C.I.A.’s counterterrorism center, has warned that the American drone program in Yemen risks turning the country into a safe haven for Al Qaeda like the tribal areas of Pakistan — “the Arabian equivalent of Waziristan.”

Anti-Americanism is far less prevalent in Yemen than in Pakistan. But rather than winning the hearts and minds of Yemeni civilians, America is alienating them by killing their relatives and friends. Indeed, the drone program is leading to the Talibanization of vast tribal areas and the radicalization of people who could otherwise be America’s allies in the fight against terrorism in Yemen.

The first known drone strike in Yemen to be authorized by Mr. Obama, in late 2009, left 14 women and 21 children dead in the southern town of al-Majala, according to a parliamentary report. Only one of the dozens killed was identified as having strong Qaeda connections.

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A Yemini democracy activist writes an open letter to Obama (NY Times op ed) (Original Post) Luminous Animal Jun 2012 OP
Glenn Greenwald comments... Luminous Animal Jun 2012 #1
Cue the Drone Defense League in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 - n/t coalition_unwilling Jun 2012 #2
Share your Popcorn bahrbearian Jun 2012 #3
Nah. I'm thinking they're going to ignore the pleas of those being terrorized. Luminous Animal Jun 2012 #4
But ,but you said Glenn Greenwald, you poked the hive. bahrbearian Jun 2012 #5
It appears that even Greenwald can't elicit a peep... Luminous Animal Jun 2012 #7
Wait a couple more minutes. bahrbearian Jun 2012 #10
Thanks for admitting openly that you're just fucking trolling on this issue. Bolo Boffin Jun 2012 #24
I've done no such thing and you know it. Luminous Animal Jun 2012 #25
Kick. Luminous Animal Jun 2012 #6
k/r emilyg Jun 2012 #8
Thanks. So obviously true. kr PufPuf23 Jun 2012 #9
Those ingrates don't realize we're killing their wives/mothers/sisters/kids for their own good. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2012 #11
It would be the same case if this happened here in the U.S. or anywhere else. Uncle Joe Jun 2012 #12
This is true of any military action. Innocent civilians always die in armed conflict. stevenleser Jun 2012 #13
Our meddling has made the situation worse for democracy activists and democracy in Yemen. Luminous Animal Jun 2012 #14
I respectfully disagree - drones ARE the issue. They've "allowed" the US to wage war on countries sad sally Jun 2012 #17
+1 Luminous Animal Jun 2012 #18
FFS, stop complaining about innocent people and children dying under US bombs! morningfog Jun 2012 #20
Drone vs occupying Yemen is a false choice. The drone strikes morningfog Jun 2012 #21
+1 Luminous Animal Jun 2012 #23
Most be a Republican Operative. Don't the Yemeni's know this is an election year? Would they rather Puregonzo1188 Jun 2012 #15
One more kick in solidarity with the democratic activists in Syria who not only Luminous Animal Jun 2012 #16
Kick! smokey nj Jun 2012 #19
DU Rec woo me with science Jun 2012 #22

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
1. Glenn Greenwald comments...
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 12:28 PM
Jun 2012
http://www.salon.com/writer/glenn_greenwald//

Mainstream American progressivism has really disgraced itself with the behavior that Mothana laments in that passage. What’s most amazing to me about this discussion is how it is simultaneously (a) so obvious (apparently, when you bomb people and constantly kill civilians, you make them want to attack you back: who knew?) and yet (b) so impervious to evidence and reason. It doesn’t matter how much proof you supply that this is true, that U.S. militarism and interference in the Muslim world is largely responsible for the very Terrorism problem that is invoked to justify them. It makes little difference.

You can show people the statements of accused Terrorists about why they are willing to sacrifice their lives to harm Americans and the evidence of what radicalized them, and how they almost unanimously cite the desire to avenge U.S.-caused civilian deaths. You can show them studies commissioned by the U.S. Pentagon which document the same thing. You can show them statements from the U.S. Government itself explaining that the 9/11 attackers were motivated by a desire to avenge U.S. aggression and deter further interference in the Muslim world. You can show them the in-depth reporting from American journalists who travel to these countries (or are held hostage there) and then emphatically warn that it is U.S. attacks which are fueling anti-American Terrorism. You can show them experts in these countries who devote their lives to studying them who issue the same warnings. And you can show them the pleas from the people who live in these countries — such as Ibrahim Mothana — who are distraught and angry that the U.S. is emboldening Al Qaeda in their country with its ongoing attacks and killing of civilians.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
7. It appears that even Greenwald can't elicit a peep...
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 01:11 PM
Jun 2012

Perhaps, I should have made his comments the OP. The pleas of a Yemeni citizen is falling on deaf ears.

Bolo Boffin

(23,796 posts)
24. Thanks for admitting openly that you're just fucking trolling on this issue.
Fri Jun 15, 2012, 04:52 AM
Jun 2012

Who's worse - Obama for ordering the drone strikes that kill innocents or you getting your jollies trolling a discussion board while waving bloody signs about? What's the difference between you and Operation Rescue?

Uncle Joe

(58,596 posts)
12. It would be the same case if this happened here in the U.S. or anywhere else.
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 01:38 PM
Jun 2012

Thanks for the thread, Luminous Animal.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
13. This is true of any military action. Innocent civilians always die in armed conflict.
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 01:40 PM
Jun 2012

So instead of drones, should we occupy Yemen, send in the army and ensure that thousands of women and children die?

FFS, stop raising the drones as if they are the issue. They are NOT the issue.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
14. Our meddling has made the situation worse for democracy activists and democracy in Yemen.
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 01:53 PM
Jun 2012

Ibrahim Mothana offers a solution that does not include a U.S. invasion.

Yemenis are the ones who suffer the most from the presence of Al Qaeda, and getting rid of this plague is a priority for the majority of Yemen’s population. But there is no shortcut in dealing with it. Overlooking the real drivers of extremism and focusing solely on tackling their security symptoms with brutal force will make the situation worse.

Only a long-term approach based on building relations with local communities, dealing with the economic and social drivers of extremism, and cooperating with tribes and Yemen’s army will eradicate the threat of Islamic radicalism.

sad sally

(2,627 posts)
17. I respectfully disagree - drones ARE the issue. They've "allowed" the US to wage war on countries
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 06:48 PM
Jun 2012

without a visible army and without formally declaring such.

Are they going away? No. Will other countries besides the US and Israel start using them to wage undeclared wars? Yes. Will one of our growing number of enemies use them on the homeland? Probably.

At some point in the near future this recent non-war-war method is going to require some international intervention regarding rules on the use of drones in non-war-wars.

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
20. FFS, stop complaining about innocent people and children dying under US bombs!
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 10:45 PM
Jun 2012

Grow the fuck up people, USA has to get its kill on!

Puregonzo1188

(1,948 posts)
15. Most be a Republican Operative. Don't the Yemeni's know this is an election year? Would they rather
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 02:53 PM
Jun 2012

have President Romeny?


Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
16. One more kick in solidarity with the democratic activists in Syria who not only
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 06:22 PM
Jun 2012

have to overcome with domestic terrorists but the U.S. military.

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