General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhile I'm happy the ACA was upheld, I'm unhappy that it wasn't upheld with the Commerce Clause.
Why? Because there's lots of other legislation that use the commerce clause, most notable off the top of my head: the Civil Rights Act, which states that even if a restaurant doesn't directly affect interstate commerce because it's in the middle of nowhere and only locals eat there, because some of the foodstocks it orders from the distributors come from out of state, Congress can mandate they do not exclude black people.
Well, Roberts made it clear he wasn't going to uphold the ACA with the Commerce Clause, choosing instead to call the mandate a tax.
Which means the Civil Rights Act could be in danger. In fact, every act of Congress that used Wickard v. Filburn about everything from civil rights to child labor to workplace safety may get struck down or narrowed, based on how Roberts telegraphed how he would rule in the future...
still_one
(92,539 posts)backscatter712
(26,355 posts)At least because of this ruling.
It's the Civil Rights Act. It's the prohibitions on child labor, regulation of workplace safety, environmental regulations - the SCOTUS could strike them all.
still_one
(92,539 posts)The Magistrate
(95,270 posts)These people cannot be trusted further than they can be thrown.
Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)It is a tax now so it is a huge victory for Dems.
treestar
(82,383 posts)I don't see the either/or there. The Commerce clause still upholds the Civil Rights Act.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Iggy
(1,418 posts)the commerce smack down could be a problem.
not sure of the current laws, but it's clear to me we need more competition in the health insurance
industry-- thus is the ruling today going to stop people from crossing state lines to consider
insurance in other states?
mmonk
(52,589 posts)such as paying claims and such.
Pab Sungenis
(9,612 posts)the Commerce Clause comes back into play.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)One would think that this would make it's removal a matter of procedure by congress, basically putting it to a vote and just saying "we are not going to implement this tax" end of discussion.
hlthe2b
(102,577 posts)with distributors that are likely doing business across state lines. So there is a business (commerce) relationship already. But, to require someone to enter into a commerce relationship, as would be the case with uninsured individuals is quite an extension from that. I can see where (legally) this (tax) might be a more appropriate justification for the mandate and I don't think (at least in my own mind) that the civil rights decision would be logically in question based on commerce clause.
But, I could never claim to be a constitutional lawyer...
treestar
(82,383 posts)and not across state lines, so the Commerce Clause would be tougher to apply (though the Commerce Clause now reaches to the ends of the earth, and even in state activities can affect commerce outside the state).
michreject
(4,378 posts)means it only takes 51 votes to rescind it, throwing it out the window.
Single payer is also out of the realm of possibilities now. This is law. Anything else would have to start from square one.
The law mandates everyone have health insurance. The ability to afford it or not is irrelevant as it's a tax.
I don't think that this is the win we think it is. Roberts is way too sneaky.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Reconciliation?
A House majority and a willing POTUS are also required. As would be the case with any law.
michreject
(4,378 posts)With a simple majority. Senate levies taxes and the House controls the purse strings.
Presidential signature not needed.
treestar
(82,383 posts)Congress can annul a tax by itself?
NYC Liberal
(20,139 posts)Any law requires the signature of the president.
The entire ACA could also be repealed by Congress in exactly the same way - with a simple majority. So could the Civil Rights Act or the Voting Rights Act, or any other law. But again, that would require both chambers and the president's signature.
U.S. Constitution, Article I Section 7
Pab Sungenis
(9,612 posts)Roberts upholding a tax for health care hands us the mechanism for single payer.
We open up Medicare Part E like Kucinich called for, paid for by a tax (i.e. premiums).
mmonk
(52,589 posts)That is the nature of corporate dictatorship.
treestar
(82,383 posts)that goal would be nothing to worry about. Some wing nuts would overturn Marbury v. Madison, not going to happen. It's been 80 years or more since the wing nuts lost the Commerce Clause battle. It now extends far beyond what they would have wanted.
They could never negate it (Constituional Amendment to remove it? Not happening in this millennium).
mmonk
(52,589 posts)Those of us who believe in self governmenet now have to consider a Constitutional amendment to negate Citizens United. The difficult challenge of changing a bad ruling lies with us.
Gothmog
(146,018 posts)I do not like this part of thet ruling.
Shrek
(3,986 posts)So I don't think existing commerce clause precedents will be affected.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I am confident that is the only reason Roberts decided the way he did.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Of social security and Medicare.
He used precedent.
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)Bake
(21,977 posts)The Court has upheld a variety of legislation, including the Civil Rights Act, on Commerce Clause grounds. This is a narrow decision which does not affect other legislation.
Bake, Esq.
Inuca
(8,945 posts)have a look at this http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/broccoli-tyranny-lives/2012/06/28/gJQAwxRQ9V_blog.html
From teh linked article
Friedman added that the inability to regulate inactivity via the commerce clause isnt any great loss since its unclear how much of this we would have wanted to do in the future in any case. The more important point, he said, is that the decision upheld the right of the government to regulate via taxation.
This is far more devastating to federalism and the balance of power between states and the national government, he says. You can now tax pretty much anything.