Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

matmar

(593 posts)
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 04:24 PM Jun 2012

Judicial Review- Should it exist?

SCOTUS bestowed upon itself in the Marbury v. Madison decision the ability to determine the Constitutionality of laws.

According to Thom Hartmann this was not the Founders intended.

What say you?

22 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Judicial Review- Should it exist? (Original Post) matmar Jun 2012 OP
I disagree with Hartmann GarroHorus Jun 2012 #1
ask blacks who go to school with whites dsc Jun 2012 #2
You are making an assumption that those issues would not have been corrected w/o the SCOTUS. rhett o rick Jun 2012 #7
Yes, the magic hand of the market would have fixed it all. GarroHorus Jun 2012 #9
As compared to God-like judges? nm rhett o rick Jun 2012 #12
we still have sodomy laws in 14 states dsc Jun 2012 #14
Hartmann can do a better job than me. See link. rhett o rick Jun 2012 #19
Well, I think you'd need someone to decide the question. NYC Liberal Jun 2012 #3
You should review Thom's argument. My take on his argument is that rhett o rick Jun 2012 #11
I think the Citizens United case destroyed that remedy... matmar Jun 2012 #16
Very well said, and I agree 100% SickOfTheOnePct Jun 2012 #20
I get leery whenever someone talks about "what the founders wanted" n/t Scootaloo Jun 2012 #4
Good. Clearly no way to know, elleng Jun 2012 #6
They left us a lot of writings in which they expressed their ideas. nm rhett o rick Jun 2012 #8
the Constitution didn't give the SCOTUS the power... matmar Jun 2012 #15
It seems to me it did with this language... Spazito Jun 2012 #18
No less than Chief Justice John Marshall himself hifiguy Jun 2012 #17
Agreed. Honestly, I don't care much what the founders wanted. morningfog Jun 2012 #22
I don't see how WE could exist without it. elleng Jun 2012 #5
As opposed to what? cthulu2016 Jun 2012 #10
Yes it should. For the best explanation of why see hifiguy Jun 2012 #13
Marbury v. Madison was brilliant and I disagree with Hartmann. morningfog Jun 2012 #21
 

GarroHorus

(1,055 posts)
1. I disagree with Hartmann
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 04:26 PM
Jun 2012

Judicial review is the last potential wall between a minority of the people and the tyranny of the majority.

Without Judicial Review, Christianity would be the official religion of 50 different states.

This would be an ugly country without Judicial Review.

dsc

(52,175 posts)
2. ask blacks who go to school with whites
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 04:27 PM
Jun 2012

women who can get abortions, gays who no longer can get arrested for sodomy, and a host of other unpopular people.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
7. You are making an assumption that those issues would not have been corrected w/o the SCOTUS.
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 04:37 PM
Jun 2012

But you cherry picked decisions that you approve of. What should happen if the SCOTUS overturns those very same laws like they did with Citizens United. As the SCOTUS gives, it may also take away.

The founders put more faith in the people than a body of appointed for life judges. People thru their representatives and president can change laws. But once the all mighty SCOTUS has spoken, it takes a Constitutional Amendment to correct the error.

dsc

(52,175 posts)
14. we still have sodomy laws in 14 states
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 04:49 PM
Jun 2012

they just can't be enforced due to the SCOTUS ruling. Anti abortion laws are still on the books of about two dozen states, again unenforcible thanks to SCOTUS. The fact is only one state has granted marriage rights to gays without a court decision first. (that was New Hampshire). Oh, and in half the states we would still be executing kids without judicial review but since most of them were black the majority doesn't give a fuck.

NYC Liberal

(20,140 posts)
3. Well, I think you'd need someone to decide the question.
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 04:28 PM
Jun 2012

Should there be greater checks on the Supreme Court? Possibly. Right now the checks are: presidential appointment and Senate confirmation of justices, and constitutional amendments.

It may not be what they intended but is there a better solution?

No matter what the system is, there will bad decisions, and there will be good ones.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
11. You should review Thom's argument. My take on his argument is that
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 04:42 PM
Jun 2012

having the people decide thru their representatives is the best way. If the people make a mistake they can correct it fairly easily. They can vote out rouge Congress-critters and/or presidents. But once the all mighty SCOTUS has spoken, that's it. Constitutional Amendments are brutal.

 

matmar

(593 posts)
16. I think the Citizens United case destroyed that remedy...
Fri Jun 29, 2012, 02:46 PM
Jun 2012

Although if there were no Judicial Review, there would ne no Citizens United decision.

 

matmar

(593 posts)
15. the Constitution didn't give the SCOTUS the power...
Fri Jun 29, 2012, 02:31 PM
Jun 2012

...to determine the Constitutionality of laws.

They took that power.

Pretty clear evidence that the Founders didn't want this.

Spazito

(50,661 posts)
18. It seems to me it did with this language...
Fri Jun 29, 2012, 02:59 PM
Jun 2012

"The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority"

These are the words that stand out to me wrt the powers given, "to ALL Cases, in Law and Equity..."

I don't see where one can find "Pretty clear evidence that the Founders didn't want this" at all.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
17. No less than Chief Justice John Marshall himself
Fri Jun 29, 2012, 02:47 PM
Jun 2012

believed that the Constitution must maintain a certain flexibility to allow government to respond to changing circumstances in an efficacious manner. The "originalists" are simply full of shit. If anyone knew what the founders "wanted" it was Marshall. He was present at the creation.

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
22. Agreed. Honestly, I don't care much what the founders wanted.
Fri Jun 29, 2012, 08:29 PM
Jun 2012

They have been dead for centuries. The gave us something to work with and it is up to us, the current citizenry, to do what we can with it. To the founders I say, thank you, we will take it from here.

cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)
10. As opposed to what?
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 04:40 PM
Jun 2012

M v. M is problematic, but less problematic than every other conceivable approach to the problem.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
13. Yes it should. For the best explanation of why see
Thu Jun 28, 2012, 04:46 PM
Jun 2012

John Hart Ely's "Democracy and Distrust." Great book. I believe Ronald Dworkin has also addressed the subject at some length, but I can't remember which of his many books it was in.

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
21. Marbury v. Madison was brilliant and I disagree with Hartmann.
Fri Jun 29, 2012, 08:27 PM
Jun 2012

The role of the Judiciary to determine constitutionality is critical to our system of government.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Judicial Review- Should i...