Rec

I love when people begin a subject with 'must read' as if the end of the world will occur if one doesn't immediately read something which has already been talked about ad nauseum. LOL

Welcome to DU - enjoy your stay and remember malaise loves to know your favorite flowers

If this topic is boring to you can go and discuss the issue of chimp research at a Maryland lab.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002882643

Probably more to your liking. ;!)

DU e yokoso!! Irasshaimase !! (welcome to DU!) Hope you will swing by the Asian Group when you have some free time!

teabagger coworker clutching his pearls over the "Asian Group" at work - thinks I should be outraged too, and is doubling down in his anger because I don't care.

If you chose to not read a suggested must read and remain uninformed then, IMO, you're no better than the uninformed, low information "patriots" cited in the article.

Because that's how they got that way.

very closely by some, not me of course, for indications of disruption. We all like a good debate but those that come here to cause trouble, dont last long. Just sayin'.

Otherwise welcome

might just cause people to think you could be teabagger troll. You wouldn't want that to happen, would you??

/nt

Ha! Gotcha!!!

[img][/img]

"LOL" at the end of a post that is neither witty or amusing. Are they really sitting there yucking it up
over some their own meaningless drivel?

Excellent. Good article.

He forgot religon.

ETA: Some of the faithful get some strange messages from their gawd.

Depending on whether or not someone's ever opened a grade school science book

Stupidity has a certain charm. Ignorance does not. -Frank Zappa

Yah, know, with all this oligarchy-fascism-plutocracy corporations-are-people and money-is-speech doctrine the SC recently established (Hell- just this past week in that Montana Ruling), some form of Revolution seems mandatory if we are to restore our FORMER DEMOCRACY to factory original showroom condition.

It ain't a Democracy any more when the wealthy buy the entire government outright. We are going to be bathed in corporate propaganda this election cycle.

-90% Jimmy

Hopefully I can elevate that to mere ignorance.

"despite the availability of information about the myriad benefits of the health law"

I've never been able to get a clear road map/cliff notes understanding of what the ACA really does. And in my current struggle to remain partially employed or maintain some semblance of an income stream (Presently carrying $1050/month COBRA due to my propensity towards being a layoff magnet) that knowledge would be really helpful in my current struggle.

-90% Jimmy

It's really complex and these rates don't even start til 2014 but the graph on pg 8 gives an idea of premium limits based on income (or where you fall based on level of federal poverty rate -pg 9)

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R41137.pdf

Looks like our family's deal will be slightly better.

Thanks to both Rose Siding and justgamma for the links.

-jim

If you are single, and make around $33,000 US dollars a year, for example, you pay $3135 dollars a year (unless you get coverage for cheaper through an employer or on your own) for the lowest level of government coverage. Starting in 2016 (the year the full penalty aka 'tax' goes into effect), your 'tax', if you choose to not use the government plan and go uninsured would be $825 dollars a year, collected by the IRS.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R41137.pdf


If Premium
Credits were Available in 2011
(for the 48 contiguous states and the District of Columbia)
Maximum Monthly Premium Contribution (2011), by Family Size
Federal
Poverty
Line (FPL)
Maximum Premium
Contribution as a %
of Income
(“Applicable Percentages”)

1 person 2 persons 3 persons 4 persons
100% 2.0% $18 $25 $31 $37
133.00% 2.0% $24 $33 $41 $50
133.01% 3.0% $36 $49 $62 $74
150% 4.0% $54 $74 $93 $112
200% 6.3% $114 $154 $195 $235
250% 8.05% $183 $247 $311 $375
300% 9.5% $259 $349 $440 $531
350% 9.5% $302 $408 $513 $619
400% 9.5% $345 $466 $587 $708

Source: CRS computation based on “Annual Update of the HHS Poverty Guidelines,” 76 Federal Register 3637-
3638, January 20, 2011, and ACA.

Notes: Under ACA, premium credits for eligible exchange coverage will not be available until 2014; the data in
this table are for illustrative purposes only. Different income levels, as measured against the FPL, apply separately
to Alaska and Hawaii (see “Annual Update of the HHS Poverty Guidelines” referenced under Source). The
Federal Poverty Guidelines are updated annually for inflation. If individuals enroll in more expensive plans than
the second lowest-cost silver plan in their respective areas, they would be responsible for the additional
premium amounts. The premium contribution amounts are rounded to the nearest dollar.
Both Figure 2 and Table 3 illustrate the “cliff effect” that occurs at 133% FPL.

For those at or below 133% FPL who are not eligible for Medicaid but eligible for premium credits (e.g., certain
legal permanent residents), the credits will ensure that such individuals pay no more than 2% of
their income (if any) for exchange coverage. Above 133% FPL, a formula is applied so that a
family at 133.01% FPL will pay 3% of their income for those premiums. For example, as shown
in Table 3, a family of four with income at 133% FPL ($29,726 in annual income) may be
required to pay $50 in monthly premiums, if the exchange and premium credit provisions were
currently in effect. With one additional dollar of income ($29,727 in annual income), they would
be required to pay $74 in monthly premiums. Thus, in this example, that additional $1 in income
would lead to $24 more in required premium payments for the family per month (an additional
$288 in premium contributions for the year). Some might observe that prior to the
implementation of the ACA premium credits in 2014, an even larger cliff exists for citizens and
qualified aliens, whose extra dollar of income makes them ineligible for Medicaid, at which point
no premium credits were available.

Well, at least some who claim to be on our side anyway.

Julie

For right now it is rhetoric and they can get away with it by using free speech...and the media propagates their concerns all the time.
And they are convinced that the left is a bunch of weaklings that are scared to shit of guns and all they have to do is dress in camouflage and Carry their assault rifle and we will just give up and do what they say.
I once had a right winger post a photo of a person point an assault rifle that was labeled "Intimidation, if you do it right you don't have to fight"...and that is what it is all about...for now.
And among them there are the sociopaths nut cases ready to lead an army of severely manipulated people to start the killing that they have dreamed of...
And the leaders of this party may well be willing to sacrifice them to win....or like Jim Jones to keep from losing.

I hope this never happens...but the only way I see to prevent it is for reasonable people stand up to it before it gets to that stage...and speak out loudly and often and demand the media attention....and backed up by many thousands of people that are willing to protest against it.
Progressives needs a leader that will actually lead and willing to stand up to the intimidation and be backed up by OWS and all of us.
Standing up to bullies is the only way to defeat them...if you ignore them, do what they say, or hide from them they will only get worse and do it more.

NDAA.

Armed poker, anyone?

...I'm going to lay out my arms room, photograph the arsenal and show these Republicant fuckwits that they aren't the only ones with a gun, bitch. (Reference to Avatar and tip 'o the coarse discourse to Jesse).

patriot, and gun owner. Not just one gun but a whole bunch. I'm trained and willing to defend my country from the likes of them. Told me I was lying - Liberals can't be patriots and they don't own guns. I laughed and told him to just keep holding on to that idea. Makes it easier to sneak up on him.

"Y'all like to brandish your weapons, so we know who you are. As for us, there's a reason we call it 'concealed carry'. Be careful who you run up on."

I dug his "deer in the headlights" look.

Hell, we don't have to sneak. They've self-identified.

Ignorance vs. Rational

then there is ignorant stupidity.

I think this is an interesting point, because I'm a teacher and have a bias that says something TTE, "For those so willing, ignorance can become informed." This is an important differentiation between ignorant and stupid, because it means there are potential allies out there if we can assist them in finding out what they need to know in order to no longer be ignorant.

"For those so willing . . . " and stupid? I am not sure what to do about these. One thing I do know about them is that they WILL cut their own noses off to spite YOUR face.

This is the attitude we need to restore our Democracy. If we begin our discourse with insults and disdain we cannot possibly get our message out.
Perhaps there is hope for the Democracy...

imprison them in ignorance and stupidity. We'll never find out what they need to free themselves if we just keep on proving to them that they "are right about us".

I am a firm believer in the fact that you can educate ignorance,but you cannot fix stupid.

Liberals have guns too, self included, and what they believe to be a matter of "the people taking back their government" would be more of a civil war in which they would be severely outnumbered. I personally have no intention of sitting back and watching while right-wing nuts use force to remodel our country in their narrow utopian image.

If they can pull it off in the voting booth, I can do nothing but actively campaign against them, but if they think a minority of the populace can force their way into absolute power with a few assault rifles, they'll have their bloodied hands full. Maybe they should start small by trying to secede Montana first and see how that works out for them.

Now when friends tell me they have guns as a stopgap against an all too powerful government, I reply "who's asking you to do that?", and let them know it'll not be just them against the government.

For all her faults it's my country too, and their pipe dream of a far right utopian paradise is just that.

I'd like more to post on threads like this.

It would inform RW lurkers they are not going to overthrow the government.

Thanks for posting.

They think they have the force necessary to "take back their government, well let them start by "taking back" liberal bastions like East Cleveland or The Bronx first. "You're gonna need a lot of body bags" as Rambo would say.

Conservative Republicans do not have a monopoly on guns in this country. Far from it:

Raw food coffee shop, vegetarian, ethnic groceries and restuarants, churches, a jazz club and a little gun shop. But when you talk to conservatives online, they see us as weak and preyed upon in high crime areas, all on welfare, just a lot of weaklings. That is not what is going on, although we have public transportation, bike lanes, gas saving cars, public parks and services, the whole thing. We all get along and they can't believe it's possible.

They think WE'RE all on Welfare when the blue states consistently support the red states financially, year after year!

oh my

racism and ignorance and stupidity

oh my


oh, me bucko, I think some of 'the divisiveness "raging" across America' (at least raging across America's blogs and message boards) has its basis in arrogance and hate-filled rhetoric such as say, oh the type of crap you just wrote.

I just wonder if the Great and Powerful Wizard could give you a sense of perspective.

is no racism, ignorance or stupidity running rampant on the right? If so, those blinders of yours were worth the money!

However, endorsing it is almost as bad.

I am not sure what "ignorance" is supposed to mean. Ignorance is endemic to the human condition. As I would say it in song "Everybody's ignorant, in their own way."

However, those who apparently never graduated from Junior high, like to play a little game of "aha". Whenever they catch somebody who doesn't know something that they know. Something that everybody WOULD know if they just watched Rachel Maddow (or listened to, or read whoever). Then, we, the cool kids in the know, get to point and jeer at them, and call them ignorant as if WE know everything about everything. Put a Scarlet I on that fool and put them on the pillory for an hour (at least).

Stupidity? Let me tell you a little story about that. I was a collidge freshman at the University of Minnesota and some guy was shown on the front page of the Minnesota Daily with a sign that said "honk if your (sic) against Reagan". I, being a young conservative, took this as evidence proving that opponents of Reagan were stupid.

What a fool I was.

Why. when I was younger, I used to believe or say or do six stupid things before breakfast.

Again, though, this is a little game of aha. See, we keep a constant vigilant watch ON OTHERS. Looking for one of THEM to say something stupid or something marginally racist. Something we can construe as either stupid and/or racist. Once we see some evidence, however slight, of that, then we get out the Scarlet R's. And then proceed to brand the entire group of 60 million.

In spite of its huge popularity, I consider such activity to be a stupid, childish, and yes, a divisive game.

Not that my opinion here will change even a single mind. But there it is.

when he testified that 10 writers were Communist. This man had been moved to the B Movie list for some reason. He used Communism to glorify himself at the suffering and imprisonment of fellow Americans. You sound proud to be on the Right/right about your choice, Reagan. Do you really believe that script writers have the power to take down an actor?

True, you didn't change my mind about anything.

I find that the conservatives 'know things' and the liberals 'know things'. Much of what we 'know' is based on information that we have no way of individually verifying.

Yet, we have this huge divide between what we 'know'. The question is how do we bridge this divide so that we can all work together to make it a better world. I believe that should be our goal.

Chris Matthews closed his 'Hardball' show Friday with a brief rant highlighting the "equanimity" of the Left and the craziness of the Right (1:49):

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/ns/msnbc_tv-hardball_with_chris_matthews/#48020483

have not only encouraged them but continue to incite them.

I want to see a morbidly obese teabagger take on an M1A1 Abrams tank. Gee, who will win that battle?

Armed forces as if we're still living in the arms parity as the British and Americans were in the Revolutionary War.

When that's pointed out, they say they will conduct guerilla warfare to win the battle for Freedom & Liberty© and say that won the Revolutionary War and the Vietnam War. They may have a point there, but it's turning a blind eye to the technology we all know exists.

The CT division of the wingnuts believe such things as, well, there are lists:

HAARP created Hurricane Katrina, the birds dropping dead in the air last year was a test to kill the human population.

The US military generated earthquakes in China and Japan to warn them off of something the (insert name here) didn't want, last year's Japanese tsunami was caused by a sub we sent that used a nuclear detonation to intentionally start the earthquake, and BTW, carrier ships arrived when the nuke blew. The reason the site wasn't dealt with properly was because they are planning to kill us all...

Enough lists. In the face of all they think is so evil and has their gastric juices in overdrive, they maintain they are going to run around in the woods and stop all of this. Or will kill the closest minions of the NWO© they can get to, which are the Democrats, liberals, homosexualists, Islamists, minorities, LEOs, etc.

What you will do (I argue) by destroying civil society and creating chaos, is bring those forces to bear on them. And the ones who will be doing that are the ones they claim to idolize, military or police that protected them thus far from hordes of hippies and tax collectors and all of what they presume are after them.

I haven't expressed that well, but if some of these people would return from the outskirts of Glennbeckistan, they might see our power to maintain our mutual Freedom & Liberty© is in believing we can make government work for us. They say that means I'm a 'statist.'I see that as better than a fascist theocracy.

them in front of a firing squad the better and the sooner the Republican party gets labeled a terrorist organization.

This is a watershed moment. With the ongoing rhetoric, and its not going to stop. It's just a matter of time before some RWer decides he's a retarded Jason Bourne and either kill or bungle an attempt to kill one or more liberals.

> some RWer decides he's a retarded Jason Bourne and either kill or bungle an attempt to kill one or more liberals.

This has been happening on a fairly regular basis since Nov 2008.

http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/violence-directed-liberal-and-govern

go on to the Southern Poverty Law Center. No I am being serious...

Obama has forgotten all of these people, and no there was never a 20 billion dollar fund, and no they have not yet come close to settling with the vast majority of the victims. But I spoke to him about how corporations like BP have paid off the Republican governors along the coast, and yes they were Obama's biggest campaign contributor in his 1st election. But I told him that they have duped him and the others here and have mis-directed our anger to each other. After re-directing it to the corporations and the very wealthy individuals he cannot wait to go explain it to his fellow oystermen. If you can get one of the duped to see the light, they can more easily convince their friends of what is going on than a screaming progressive (me being a recovering screaming progressive as well)! Go forth and multiply!

So Obama would try to set up a fund to cover BP's malfeasance, the repugs would find a way to stop it happening to make Obama look foolish ect: I say wait for the Obama second term where the politics will be nullified somewhat. If americans vote him out, doesn't matter, america will NEVER be the same and if Rombag gets in,americans get what they deserve. I am convinced that Obama has done what he could in spite of the political compromises along the way. Promises broken? HAH!!!! There is historical precedent

This is how the Democracy can be saved. Otherwise, we will just rage at each other until it does escalate into violence.

that the next civil war would be against the "haves" and the "have nots" - and here we are with the "1%" and the "99%" - the 1% want to rule America as a corporatocracy and have the backing of the sycophantic morons who do not believe in thinking for themselves - but believe that somehow they will become a member of that 1%. Using that same lack of thinking skills you then have the churches (also major 1% members) who are stirring up their brethren to hate and bigotry against anyone who is not a member of their church - which is rather ironic when they are all meant to follow Jesus.

I do think Obama should be in talks with Perry about having TX secede and anyone (righties) who wants to move their is free to do so - anyone coming out will be given a choice of where they want to move to - then we build a big wall - drones - if they want to come into the USA they have to have the proper "papers" and if they try to sneak over the border they will be arrested, detained and deported pronto.

It would be nice to let all the Repubs ( And those that vote for them ) to have to live in the Right wing utopia while we live beside them in ours. We would probably go broke just trying to keep them from crossing the border into our Land. Screw 'em; they voted repub, so they must have wanted to live in a country with 99.9% of the population living below the poverty level!
However, if there were another civil war, it would probably be between competing factions within the 1%.
Any popular uprising would probably be hijacked before it could really gain any momentum.

Big bullies and little brains. From some I read about they are on the "social system" and don't even realize food stamps, welfare, SSI and "disabilities" is just fine for them but not for others. I listen to "christians" who profess to be against abortion but really ready to dump children born to the curb to fend for themselves. If I could see a direct movement towards the anti-abortion to aid in rearing all children, educating them and providing means for them to thrive in this world I might change my mind about a woman's choice. They vote for and candidate who says they are against abortion whether the candidate is capable of only saying they are against abortion. They are the poor and living payday to payday yet continue to vote against their best interest. The TP is only interested in the 99% getting poorer and themselves getting richer.

In the sixties, blacks and whites who called for the overthrow of racist laws and actions and the end of an unjustified war based on a lie(Tonkin Gulf resolution) sound familiar, were killed or jailed as threats to society. These calling for the overthrow of the government of this country because of the passage of a healthcare act?????? that eventually will help every american are terrorist. The 'Patriot Act' applies to them. Do it now!!!!!

full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Just shows the mentality of these folk.

Let the wingnuts hyperventilate, froth, and have seizures all they want. The rest of the country is moving forward, and they are becoming irrelevant. In fact I think that is what's bugging them the most.

They just cant stand the fact there is a black man in the WH moving the country forward and outsmarting them at every turn. Arrogant racist evil bastards would rather destroy the country than allow President Obama to succeed.

and then , if Romney wins, they will have to sell those guns to pay the rent because they will not be able to get a job!

...than their normal price.

Exactly exactly exactly!!!!

I've been posting on FB a lot lately, and just dumping the polite decorum.

I'm gonna post this too, just want to wait a little after the avalanche I posted last night!!!!!

People might think I'm a fanatic or something!!!

Nah, just fanatical about Truth and integrity.

I agree that it is a shame that the Human race has not lived up to its potential. We have come so far, technologically speaking, yet in social terms we still live in a slightly modified feudal system. The only difference is that we traded barons and kings for CEO s and billionaires.
However, the ACA is still far from brilliant; I voted for single-payer universal healthcare and I refuse to jump up-and-down joyfully for this ( essentially ) right-wing compromise. It is , of course, better than nothing.
As far as a Republican Uprising goes, I will say that there are Dems ( like myself ) who keep and are willing to bear arms.
However, logistically speaking, an armed insurrection against an actively defensive US government would be short lived and the political fallout would be disastrous for the right. Such an obvious threat to America would bring voters to the Box in droves to throw out conservatives.
I admire your passion, but this is just another Right-wing PsyOp; Stir up fear amongst the base, and get them out and vocal before the election. That will cause liberals to white-wash every Religious person as an ignorant red-neck. This , in turn, pisses religious people off. They show up in november ,en mass , and vote against Liberals.
And so on...
There are many ignorant people around. Most are just too busy living their lives to give a thought to socio-political issues. Many ( falsely ) believe that things just are the way they are and will never change. That Idea is foreign to them." That stuff only happens overseas ".
Anyways, this is all just a side show to divert attention away from the republican fight for the supremacy of the 1 %.

Also, I have to admit that I thought (at first ) that you were advocating that We arm ourselves for the upcoming "War". Then I decided that you were just posting in anger after reading some awful right-wing propaganda.

I also agree that,while I like humor as much as anyone, the Republican party's efforts are no laughing matter. We are on the verge of losing our democracy. But it is the Right that is facilitating this process. America has made the same mistake that many nations have made: We have failed to control the Wealthy. The main way to do this ( of course ) is through taxation. Taxation not only funds the government, it ( should ) keep the rich from becoming too powerful. This simple idea has worked perfectly for a few thousand years.

But you are right; the things that the Right are doing now is no laughing matter. We should save the laughter for after the election.

at least in Texass, by the RepubliCONS. I am sure you have seen the stories....
Keepin 'em barefoot, dumb, and pregnant they is.....

Wouldn't it be handy ?


Armed insurrection would be really stupid !
How would these nutjobs expect to survive against the
tools the military has ? Oh yeah they're really stupid
begin with...
Sure it would be messy, but would clean out the
gene pool too....


As the writer points out, you wouldn't see those advocating this
in harm's way.

LOL...
Retired teacher and combat veteran of the Vietnam War

Any armed rebellion against the United States government would be very, very short lived.

And also, there are all sorts of laws against going out to murder anyone for any motive.

It's just another stupid way of thinking (I should also say it's foolish, nowadays).

This is 2012, not 1772, nor 1872. There are LAWS against killing (for whatever purpose).

when I walk into a colleague's office he gives me this, "damn-you-caught-me-in-the-middle-of-plotting-the-armed-overthrow-of-the- duly-elected-government-of-the-United-States" look and turns down Glenn Beck or whatever other asshole he's listening to.

"not stoop to their level" and "work hard in our precincts".

This really isn't a war , since the Dark Side is the only one fighting - no one is fighting back

Racism is absolutely the enabler of all this anti. rhetoric from the GOP and RIGHT here in the United States. I predicted this when we elected the first Black President.

The Republican's in Washington are the Party of No. That is why we are having all of these problems in this Country. Even the ugliness spewed forth as soon as the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the Health Care.

Hey if you really do not want any health care then just opt out and if you get ill do not expect any help.

Seriously forty years of Reagan's no government government has been an absolute disaster - they failed then, they failed now, and they will fail in the future. But there literally is no excuse for the hate and vitriol coming from the Republicans. The crazies have come out of the woodwork and it's getting scary.

I`m itching for a fair fight instead of the backstabbing they`ve been doing since Obama took office.

Which I find interesting. You'd think Obama passed the USA PATRIOT act or something.

Ironically, I'm sure the same assholes that were so supportive of giving up those freedoms; think that somehow health care reform is where they'll lose freedoms.

Absolutely mystifying. Maybe while they've got their guns out they can be convinced that suicide (theirs) would be best for everyone.

and head for the hills to fight the government, they'd find themselves having to scrounge for scraps or to live off the land and feed themselves in an environment where the supply chain of food has been disrupted. A few generations ago when Americans were tough, that might have been possible and guerrilla warfare might have been carried out. But I suspect that the minute a modern day Teabag "patriot couldn't drive his gigantor pick-up truck to the corner burger joint and order a half dozen instant super-sized meals he'd soon be trading in his assault rifle for an extra large pizza. The modern day Tea Bagger "patriot", if he'd had the misfortune of experiencing an invasion and occupation like the Europeans did against the Nazis would have been the first in line to collaborate when told that he'd otherwise have to live on ration coupons for bread made from sawdust and only a small piece of inferior-quality meat once a week. I think these guys, with a very small number excepted, are all talk and nothing else.

If they didn't go Rwanda on us during the Bush administration they certainly won't do so with a Democratic president and some chance they will be punished.

is now the Republican Party. They are al Qaeda
in a cheap disguise.

"In their quest to transform the country into a corporatist theocracy, Republicans are using the ignorance and stupidity of a significant segment of the population to incite violent reactions to every policy proposed by President Obama."

That part sums it up so very well.

I don't listen to Fox News.. but I was button pushing on the car radio and I heard either Glenn Beck of Hannity saying something about bringing their guns to the Republican Convention in August to affirm their 2nd Amendment rights.

(What the second amendment has to do with ACA I'm not sure) but the Teabags will be packing heat. I think I will avoid the RNC in August...

Is Issa trying to ignite some kind of Turner Diaries uprising to overthrow the government? And who will do the dirty work for him? After looking at the reader responses to the piece below at PrisonPlanet, it appears Alex Jones is not lighting anyone's torch. Of course it should be taken into consideration that Jones' lunatic brigade has not been as vocal in recent months. Seems they had to start registering after posting threats to "put a bullet in the heads" of climate scientists and sech. Moreover, judging from the ads on the site, Jones is perhaps getting too fat and comfortable to throw in with a messy coup d'état. Heck, it might interfere with the cable reception in his farm tractor.

Nevertheless, over the past 20-some odd years lone wolves and small groups beneath the cracks have planned and even carried off some deadly attacks. McVeigh and Nichols apparently were part of a planned, coordinated attack involving truck bombs, and you may recall a small group out of Minnesota who got caught on the way to put Ricin on the doorknobs of a federal building. Stop, Look and Listen as we near the election. As for me, I will hush so you can see the link below.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/issa-e-mails-suggest-operation-fast-and-furious-would-be-used-to-bolster-assault-weapons-ban-greater-reporting.html