how you feel about putting out someones pm. not what you expect from others. this is about personal boundaries.

... a giant bag of douche if they do it.

One should be allowed to do it, but should know to tread carefully.

we should assume it will be put out, if a person chooses. and that it is allowed.

i can say though, easily. it is not something i will ever do. it is about personal boundaries we draw for ourselves. that is what i am interested in.

If you're talking about something or someone in confidence, and the second party spills it, that could be bad.

If someone PMs you and starts calling you names, I would post that in a heartbeat.

person was really an issue, i would send to administration. and that is about it. but, i have not even gotten to the point of feeling the need to do that. i respond. or i ignore.

Shouldn't discussions about pms go in the health forum?

I don't think that name change was accidental, either.

In the interests of the transparency of the DU3 board, I think it's best to assume that everything written here could be given a wider audience. The admins have said that material written in the host's forum is not privileged, so why should DU Mail be?

DU Mail belongs to two people--the sender, and the receiver. Either person has the right to use that communication as they see fit, to include giving it a wider audience.

I think it's best to communicate as though we anticipate others could read our conversations. If it's something one could not stand by in public, one should not write it in private.

at least, thats how I saw it.
sorta funny too.
Oh, on topic, I dont think a private convo
should be put out there.
Just my .02

They aren't called that here on DU3, and I think that was deliberate.

I wasn't snarking about "premenstrual syndrome" if that's what you were thinking.

It's not really about not being willing to stand behind one's words. If I were to write you a love letter, I would stand by it in public, but I certainly wouldn't enjoy having it put out there for every twelve-year-old mouth-breeder to take shots at. If I want a public critique, I'll ask for a public critique, by presenting my views to the forum.

-- Mal

And then, later, I fell out of love with you and started consorting with another DU member and treating you poorly and saying dreadful things about you as a person. Wouldn't you perhaps be motivated to wave those love letters like a bloody shirt, as proof of a previous opinion and evidence of an agenda?

I take your point; I realize that most people don't like having their quieter conversations thrust into the public square, but I do think that the publication of an off-forum/off-group (but not off-board) conversation that doesn't match what people are saying publicly is instructive, particularly when trying to determine the veracity of an individual.

Example--a person declares, on this board, that they never would say "X" about so-and-so. Someone else provides a screenshot showing that the person did indeed say "X" and in a very nasty way as well.

It all goes to veracity and honesty and things of that nature. I think it should be used sparingly, but people who say one thing in public and another in private should probably recalibrate their integrity meters.

I've always understood that what is posted in PM's has to follow TOS. So if I send a PM and it ends up on the boards - then so be it.

Now if someone is goading another at DU - or harassing them via PM - then so be it - if it is shared.

putting them on a public forum would seem to defeat the purpose.

In general, it is considered bad taste to disclose private correspondence without explicit permission. Or perhaps I should say, it used to be considered bad taste.

Very bad idea in my view. What is the point?

-- Mal

it is to me, also. but, i am not seeing that as a norm elsewhere. why i was curious and put it out to a bigger audience.

PMs, like email, snailmail, private memos... has, or at least had, the expectation of privacy.

Granted, almost nothing is "private" any more by what seems to be popular convention, but that doesn't mean it isn't still wrong, wrong, wrong.

if your PM with another DUer is based on a mutual understanding of secrecy, keep the conversation secret.

But if a DUer PMs you some variety of crap, hiding behind a wall of "Privacy" to which you've neither agreed nor encouraged, then feel free to post it.

and what our boundaries are with pms.

That's the sort of thing that could use a bit of sunlight, IMO.

to publish it. It was a risk you took. If you don't want mail you send to be published, you shouldn't send it to people whose discretion you're not sure of.

(The rules have not changed since the internet, except possibly to make this even more obvious.)

setting on someones table when i walked into their house.

We're not lawyers, doctors or priests with patient/client/parishioner confidentiality expected. If someone talks to me about something, without me saying I'll keep it to myself, I'm under no obligation to keep it secret. In the example that happened recently, there was a 3rd party involved, who definitely had the right to know was being said about them behind their back, if the recipient chose to share it.

It has DUMail and there are no promises of privacy.

it was the example i saw.

having a conversation face to face with someone, a letter in the mail, .... there is not a need or a spoken or written PROMISE that it will not be shared. for me, it is assumed.

I learned when I was about 10 that just because "I" think something is private, that does not make it so. On the internet, making such an assumption is just plain silly.

i type in pms as i type on the board. this is not about me. it is about our personal boundaries and how we feel about putting pms out. that is all.

I personally don't care for this behavior and certainly makes me less likely to DU mail people who practice posting their mail.

My feeling is that there is a tacit compact that mail between two members is private. If I want all to see what I say about a particular topic I would post it.

That being said....there are no longer rules against this kind of behavior so folks are now within their rights to do what they see fit with the mail they receive.

I find I send far less mail.

with a few, i will now say, you PROMISE not to share. lol. and not cause i need the protection. but, because i am working thru a problem myself, to better understand something and using that person to do this. and that post may hurt someone else, or escalate an issue. when that is the opposite of my intent and goal.

but, for the most part i trust people, because that is who i am and how i was raised, i really do not even think about it. even now. and if someone puts it out, aw well. it is what it is. and i type the same in pms that i do on the board. the same will hate me. the same will be ok.

this isnt about my pms.... it is about what our personal boundaries. i was curious and pretty sure i was not the lone one.

I was gonna say "unless the author asked me to or dared me to", but in that case they could post it themselves.

Any message I get via DU Mail is a private message.

i was in that position, and i thought about it and too much would be shown and i could not, would not do it. even though it would have been to my benefit. for me, bottom line, it was stepping over what i was comfortable with.

It was PM on DU2, it is DUMail on DU3. No "private" in the equation at all.

If you have something so very confidential to share then it should be done by email.

an issue with it, or you do have an issue with you.

no more. no less.

which is hidden from view to all but hosts. So 'hosts' post ,gather reactions, self delete it and then rush to the 'hosts only' room to discuss what they did without the presence of those they did it to. That is not at all transparent, and it is how the site is designed, to allow for cover ups of that which is posted and also for secreted 'Safe Host Haven' in which they dish in privacy.
Perhaps DU3 is rhetorically about transparency, but many of the features of the site provide the opposite of transparency to all or to a few. So 'all about transparency' expect when it is not?

Very strange. Is it because we come from such a litigious society? Or that we believe that "everything not prohibited is fair game?" The whole point of equity is to determine if an act is "fair," regardless of whether or not it is permitted.

To respond to an ethical question with a variation on the theme of "You're naive if you think people are ethical" is to miss the point: it is confusing "is" with "ought."

To respond to an ethical question with a variation on the theme of "There's no rule against it" is to deny personal responsibility in making the decision to act.

I wonder if people respond these ways because they are simply uncomfortable with ethical questions?

-- Mal

very good post, and points. and yes, it is. i clearly stated it is not what is allowed.... it is what your personal line, boundary is.

yes.

Generally speaking you should not post PM's, but if someone is being some sort off an ass via pm or being a nasty gossip while claiming to hate gossip...well then I say post away.

for me, it is that black and white. so i wanted to approach MY poll in that manner, lol. but, i did consider the gray of the issue.

i really get off on that "reasonable" thing, lol

thanks

Either person involved in the mail exchange can do as they see fit. If you don't like seeing what you've written ......... don't send it.

And, for context ..... here is the discussion I believe you were referring to. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1240119470

This is a Meta thread, that has 5 SOP alerts on it.
Please repost in Meta. Thank you.