It's easy to lower oneself to the level of the competition, very tempting in fact, but I know how each of these descriptors (beyond just "fat&quot describes someone in my extended family. I also know how it hurts their feelings to be singled out for criticism, which is how it feels when it's something they can't (or are unable) to control and are in a group more typically oppressed.

To my knowledge, Christie has not mocked someone for being overweight. tRump on the other hand has mocked many people (mostly women) for their looks. Fuck him. I have no sympathy for him when people mock him for being (fill in the blank with whatever you want).

That's what the hypocrisy is built on.

Not the amount of lipids his body's stored.

Insults and put-downs aren't criticism. They're just insults and put downs--maybe intended to make the other person just feel bad, maybe intended to make the insulter feel good. Maybe just to establish group solidarity, "See, we hate the same people, so you must be my ally." Maybe for some other reason. Like all attempts at bullying, they stop communication instead of promote it--and it really doesn't matter if the other side's interested, because shutting down communication itself is a flaw in anybody who claims to like democracy. Democracy has to be built not on winner-take-all (even if there's just a slot for one person in a position) but on dialog and compromise whenever possible.

I hope everyone reads it and internalizes it.

The alliterative nature of that nomenclature should be fully appreciated.

fraudulent

There is a partial list of words starting with the letter f, that aren't fat (okay technically fat is in the word fatuous) that can be used for one's alliterative insults against those two banal, boorish buffoonish blights on the U.S.

...excellent!

Fascist.

Do you not understand the point is to get 'fat' out of the list of insults?

And none of them are 'fat'.

As to Christie, yes. He's an asshole but he's self-aware enough to know he has a weight problem, and he has tried to do something about it. And as far as I know he doesn't make a habit of criticizing other people's looks. So although it's tempting sometimes (such as just the other day, when he enjoyed a state beach that he'd closed to the peon taxpayers), I leave his weight alone and concentrate on what he does as a politician.

Trump, on the other hand, is a whole different breed of asshole. This is a guy who for years has repeatedly mocked others, mostly women, for their weight and other aspects of their appearance. To name just a few: Rosie O'Donnell, Carly Fiorina, Hillary Clinton, Miss Universe, and the woman he groped on an airplane and then claimed he didn't because she was too unattractive for him to want to grope. He allowed Melania to have a child as long as she promised to get her figure back (and she's obviously had so much plastic surgery that she is in danger of melting in the sun). He requires women to be beautiful; if they are not, to him they are worthless. So, speaking as an older, not very thin and not very beautiful woman, I say, fuck him. I agree that in general it isn't nice to give people a hard time about their weight, but I've done it as to Trump (usually just by inserting the adjective "fat" into a long list of other adjectives), and I don't feel guilty about it and I won't call out others if they do it.

Trump is exceedingly vain, in keeping with his other narcissistic traits. It's obvious that he thinks he's an Adonis who's so irresistible to the ladies that he can just, you know, grab them. And they'll love it because he's famous and also hot. So he paints himself orange, apparently believing that this gives him a glorious manly tan; he dyes his hair a shade of yellow varying between urine and traffic-hazard and then combs and sprays it into a bizarre structure designed to cover his bald spot, which no one must ever see because hot guys don't have gray hair or bald spots. He has small hands, which have been the cause of fury and denial for years, and led to a suggestion (in a primary debate!) that he also has a small dick, which he probably does but he insisted he doesn't. So here's a guy who's a psychological train wreck as evidenced by some aesthetic disasters that are of his own making (orange skin, weird hair, abnormally long ties). He also has common genetic traits like small hands, probably a small dick, normal male baldness and pale skin. Are these physical characteristics also off-limits like fat? Just asking.

OK, it's not nice to make fun of people's looks. Trump makes fun of people's looks. Two wrongs don't make a right. I will try to limit my comments on his looks to his weird hair and orange-painted skin because he does that to himself. But on behalf of unyoung, unthin, unbeautiful women everywhere, you still might catch me inserting the word "fat" into a long list of unfriendly adjectives.

My sentiments exactly, although you expressed them far more elegantly than I ever could.

In doing that, we can legitimately point out his weight, when he criticizes others for theirs. However, I think that simply calling him fat without any further reference and as a negative attribute is a bad idea.

It's a matter of how we use our words, I think. I think we should use them more carefully than we often do.

EACH time someone opts to use it in this way, it should be connected with his criticisms of others for being overweight.

Otherwise it is just fat-bashing.

He certainly is. And without much of anything to justify it.

other innocent people with contempt, like weight is a justified target of derision, and the small penis speculation is a similar situation. The bizarre hair and garish skin color are on him, though. It's not making fun of him for being balding and pale, but for his absurd "Emperor has no clothes" way of dealing with that reality. (And the ties down to his crotch and other weird fashion choices are also on him...)

He has more than earned each and every pejorative comment on his own appearance, but it's the collateral damage (like to the "unthin&quot that concerns me. Except for that, I wouldn't give a flying fuck.

On the other hand... "fight fire with fire"? Especially since that's the only thing he and his followers seem to understand. (They're not big on reason and nuance.) On the other other hand... where we'll we be when this nightmare is finally over? Will future presidential campaigns be just another WWF showdown? How will we dial this back, now that he has unleashed the Republican id?!

I get the impression that the small hands thing bugs him more than almost anything. It's been a burr under his saddle for almost 30 years, ever since Graydon Carter called him a "short-fingered vulgarian" in a magazine article. More here: http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2015/10/graydon-carter-donald-trump I get the point about collateral damage from the "fat" insult, but the little hands? Let's go for it. A lot of cartoonists have been drawing him with little bitty hands like on a T. rex. Even though his small hands aren't his fault, I'm in favor of going there anyhow because it drives him nuts. I am hoping to watch him completely decompensate on Twitter before much longer, and I'm all for whatever pushes him over the edge (as long as it doesn't involve nuclear weapons).

Since he is a public figure and a hypocrite about deriding others, I feel like it's fair game. Not sure if the future will return to a more civil tone. They've had such raging success with the farce and bread & circuses tactics thus far, so why would they stop now?

You do make fair points all around.

and no doubt chubby Bernie supporters, chubby libertarians, chubby greens and chubby centrists, and also skinny Republicans, etc. And not all metabolisms are equal, they slow down due to age, some are not skinny easily even when young. Everyone has their own struggle. No need to judge on superficial grounds - leave that to right wingers.

Yet another lecture.

Dude seriously. I actually agree with this one, but why the need to lecture DUers all the time?

I'll tell you what I'll do: I'll post the things I want to post and encourage you to post the things you want to post. How does that sound?

🐔

I never alert on replies to my own posts, either. I'm not an alerting type. I do jury duty whenever called, though, but give the benefit of the doubt to posters whenever I can.

Not do I judge a post I don't like. Ever.

But I understand others feel that need.

That's a bad place to be in.

and like to go through alerting on people. I have been alerted on before by someone who obviously hadn't even read the post. There was no relationship to the reason cited for the alert and he post. I challenged, but my post and appeal were deleted. Then, I see whole threads that blatantly violate the rules, and nada.

I think the rules should be updated and simplifid to include only egregious things, like advocating for Repubs or RWs. No more than 5 or 6. We don't need a DU Code, with referrals to Subchaper S1.b.
Otherwise, let freedom speek.

The cops can find another place which has a more authoritarian nature.

Your post is right on.

But the busybodies and the net nannies wil keep on.

We know who they are.

Prurist...just a few general common sense guidelines.

Someone has to keep us in line.

I tend to post about things, instead of trying to control anyone. I don't have that power, nor would I want it. Not everyone, of course, wants advice about stuff. They're more than welcome to ignore any that I might offer.

without MM's all too intermittent keepings us in line.
No MM's keepings us in line = KAY-AWS! (& bad manners)

Or disagree with, for that matter?

If you can't restrain yourself from calling DU'ers you don't like "chickens", then the perhaps the best course for you might be putting those DU'ers on ignore.

and I hold them in the highest esteem.

Chickens are not afraid of anything. Bold as brass, they are.

Fantastic birds.

Grew up in a rural area, much fondness for chickens.

DUers could barely contain their delight in mocking his weight. It was abhorrent.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029281110

The way he talks about women should make any woman talk back "ten times harder". Same goes for everyone else he attempts to destroy.

maybe two wrongs do not make a right but when we do that it is just an outlet for our frustration. One of my concerns though is even though HE is fat he and his administration will put a fat tax on middle class and the poor. this subject has been talked about by law makers in the past so what will keep this one from finally doing it.

"Sooey!!" When trump comes into view, isn't it?

An example:

.......

It's reallllllly hard not to use ad hominems about people so destructive, so greedy and selfish and threatening, that they bring out visceral rage in us decent people who see clearly all of this insanity happening right in our faces.

Very very hard to stay balanced... not that there's anything wrong with letting out our anger, but I guess ya gotta also stay conscious. Know when to pull back. Think of something constructive to focus on......

(I'm just thinking out loud.)

But your right.

I don't know if he really did. I'll have to check it out.

He kept saying how ugly and fat 45 is and whipped out his "new book" full of fat jokes but it was a fake sort of mock-up. I thought it was legit.

Not for their weight, but for their greed, disdain for others, general hoggish (I got mine, screw you and that's mine, too) behavior?
And I still think that one pic of tRump's neck makes him look like a bullfrog. A pithed bullfrog, at that.

towards anyone, unlike that vile orange thing that's currently infesting the White House. (I just had to be contrary--perhaps I've spent too much time on Esther the Wonder Pig's social media accounts.) Just kidding.

They can be clean, affectionate creatures...or they can eat your face off.
Like people, it is often all in how they are raised.

But it in no way relates to his body shape. I don't care if he's fat; I don't care about his neck shape. I care about his character.

post unflattering pics of Dolt 45* to Dolt 45*'s Twitter account--until the coward banned me, lol. I never used an expletive, either. Just used his own vile words against him, but it was probably the golfing pics that did it. Anyway, I felt okay about it because, as a woman I resent the hell out of him objectifying us the way he does every fucking day. If that asshole has the nerve to gratuitously say, "Sadly, Heidi Klum is no longer a 10..." (!) then I can point out his fat fucking gut & sphincter-like mouth. And I'm not sorry I did it. But I only did it to his face, well, twitter account.

I agree with you, though.

A person's health and appearance have a definite impact on how they feel, their personality, why they do some of the things they do.

Imagine Christie Brinkley, supermodel extraordinaire, still beautiful after all these years (with a little help). What would she be like if she had weighed 250 pounds and had two double chins, like Trump? Would she still be her perky self, always smiling and happy? Would she wake up in the morning, look in the mirror, and say "Thank you, God! Now, let's go and have a great day!"?

It's no coincidence, IMO, that the more Trump lost his looks and gained weight, the meaner he got, and the more he called others by derogatory names, esp. names relating to their ugly or fat or misshapen appearance (in his view). Trump even referred to Christie as "a funny fat guy."

It is also fair, if not necessary, to point out the hypocrisy of someone calling others juvenile derogatory names because they are overweight or not beautiful, while the person himself is overweight and not handsome. He's either saying that the rules don't apply to him because he's so special, or he is living in an alternate reality where he thinks he is slim and healthy and handsome.

One's appearance and health is certainly relevant to one's personality and politics and outlook on life. That doesn't mean we have to call a person juvenile names or hurt their feelings. But when the people are politicians, and pick on others, and call other people names for being the same things that THEY themselves are, that should be pointed out, and the favor reciprocated.

Also, Trump is very vain. Remember when he called in the press shortly after being elected, and the press thought it was for the purpose of policy discussion or his plan for the country. But it was to complain about the pics being taken of him being unflattering, and giving rules for taking his picture - what angles are best, not to show his double chin, etc.

So TRUMP has made his appearance front and center. Game on.

There are plenty of people who are overweight and/or unhealthy who are good and kind and caring and generous. They can also be happy and successful, even with (gasp!) two double chins.

From watching the Pillsbury Dough Boy in see through golf pants and skivvies!

The Humanity!

How do you think she/he would feel being called a Pillsbury Dough Boy?

When you insult the body size of someone you despise, you also insult everyone who is that size or shape. You are saying that it is disgusting to be fat. That is really hurtful to people who have struggled all their lives to lose weight.

That fat fuck not only wants to tell other people what they should do with their own bodies, he's willing to send SWAT teams into their living rooms to enforce it. His personal vision of what constitutes a "healthy lifestyle".

So bullshit it's not relevant to the political discussion.

If you think it is, then by all means proceed. But understand that terms like "fat fuck" is going to be insulting to people here, whether you think they ought to be or not.

about taking away his Oreos

I think we should shoot a little higher here on DU.

Nope, does not carry the same gravitas.

Carry on 😀

between their ears!

So what is the best descriptor for Bannon? Handsome? Debonair? Distinguished or just Ass Hole?

Do any of you imagine that reclaiming what's left of this country is going to be an easy task, where rules of good conduct count for something? WAKE THE FUCK UP! It's going to be an ugly, violent process. Lives and property are very likely to be lost. A whole lot of dirty language is going to be in play. Realize that the right wing is our mortal enemy, they hate our guts, and they've managed to wrench much of the control of this nation away from us. They will not give it back without a fight. If you're going to wimp out over accurate physical descriptions of our opponents, you might as well get yourself a "TRUMP 2020" bumper sticker and have done with it. The right wing depends on this sort of snow flake timidity from us---disappoint them, for once.

It began in earnest with "Impeachment is off the table" and the resulting non-stop, 24/7/365, kicking being dished out on us by the RepubliDroogies for years and years ever since, which we've never effectively fought back against.

The rummy old romantic guy is US, you know who the others are...this is our reality! And they are the "base" we are supposedly longing to add to our fold...

We should call them fags and retards too!!!!

Our other cheek is so bruised, it may never heal. All we ever do is "crybaby" over a few descriptive words. The other side has no qualms using words to insult us. We must stop bringing cupcakes to a gun fight.

Especially with respect to weight. Honestly, we are better than this. Or at least we ought to be.

If you want to hamper yourself by adhering to a set of Play Nice rules that the right wing flushed down the toilet decades ago, have at it. But stand aside for those of us who intend to fight the onset of fascism in this country with more effective and hard-edged tactics.

I don't understand why this is even controversial.

We're OK with saying making fun of Barron is off limits - why not do the same with weight?

I'm just wondering how many other subjects you consider to be off-limits, what else you are willing to take off the table, in a desperate fight with hateful, frothing-at-the-mouth thugs who have absolutely no appreciation for decent manners or fair play. I say it again: the right wing relies upon and takes advantage of the left's adherence to obsolete good conduct rules---they expect us to fold when things get nasty in the trenches, and all too often, we oblige them. Until we are willing to fight them on their own low level, they are going to prevail. I'm sick to death of repeatedly losing to these assholes, for no good reason. Once we defeat them a few times, once we regain some lost power, then we can start cleaning things up and re-establishing the concept of leading by polite example. We've got a tough slog ahead of us before we reach that point.

I understand where you are coming from. Happy to leave it there.

"the battle is over. They've won...

No. The battle will not be won nor lost over simple petulance, regardless of whether you are unable to see that.

I was just using the formulation of the other post to make a rhetorical point (quite poorly, in retrospect). I appreciate you pointing out the problem with my doing so. As you correctly state, the battle won't be over either way.

I just support not making fun of people's weight. I think we should avoid fat shaming people, even if we don't agree with them politically.

That's really the only point I meant to emphasize.

Both of them. With a barbed wire dildo.

from people I respect who are on both sides of the fence. I don't know how we'll all see eye to eye on this issue, if we ever do, but I'm grateful, at least, that we all despise the same fascist people!

It hurts a lot of people, myself included.

I've been "the fat kid/guy" all my life, and constant ridicule doesn't help.

Do you honestly think I haven't tried?

A couple years ago, I started HAVING to take a medication that made it worse.

I have to comfort myself with the fact that I may be fat, but at least I'm not dead. My family needs me to pay the bills, so I have to keep going whatever comes.

The nasty comments, even aimed at those reprehensible scrimmage, still hurt me by simply existing.

Irrational, but still painful.

Come on, let's use our imaginations to come up with something more targeted than an easy over broad generic insult.

A figurative dagger up close, rather than a shotgun in the general direction of the target.