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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsQuestion about Hillary Clinton and the white working class
If I remember correctly Hillary Clinton was actually pretty popular with white working-class voters back in 2008 during the primary against Obama to the point where she was strongly identified with this demographic group. Fast forward to 2016 and this is apparently no longer true.
What explains such a large change? I am not sure if racism and sexism can explain the shift because many of these people were enthusiastic about Clinton (a woman) in the 2008 primary then voted for Obama (a black man) in the general election.
I wonder how Clinton went from being a popular figure with WWC voters in 2008 to being so unpopular in 2016. Any thoughts?
Skittles
(153,310 posts)MrsCoffee
(5,803 posts)And by probably much more than our "official" tally.
Willie Pep
(841 posts)Clinton ran up the score in states like California but that didn't do her any good with regard to the Electoral College.
emulatorloo
(44,272 posts)They weren't
ananda
(28,910 posts).. that were hacked by the Russians.
ImpeachTheGOP
(89 posts)A white, racist man is preferable to a white, non-racist woman.
It's pretty simple.
Plus Тяцмр put everything in simplistic slogan terms and Secretary Clinton was well thought out and realistic.
I think we should stop with the thoughtful nuance and just boil the rhetoric down to simpleminded lyimg slogans and unrealistic but popular themes. Then just govern the way we want.
That's what Republicans do. They win an awful lot of elections.
msongs
(67,498 posts)Ninsianna
(1,349 posts)that doesn't holdup. A white woman won more votes against the black man and the white man in the primaries, and against white men in all of her elections.
Obama had a better delegate strategy in 2008, but she got more votes.
She won both delegates and votes against Bernie.
She won more votes than Trump, with a whole of GOP vote suppression and other chicanery in selected states. The incomplete hand recount in MI proved that, and had they bothered in WI, PA and FL that would have shown what happened.
They didn't need to hack the entire system, just a few areas in a few states. Hence the razor thin margins and the large amounts of votes not counted in Democratic areas.
jalan48
(13,913 posts)Hard one to explain to folks trying to make ends meet.
LonePirate
(13,444 posts)I'd say those folks trying to make ends meet have some screwed up priorities.
emulatorloo
(44,272 posts)As you know from the ACTUAL data, Clinton won voters whose top concerns were Jobs and the economy.
You can authoritively assert any tired false narrative you'd like from the pundit class. Doesn't mean it's true though.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,138 posts)jalan48
(13,913 posts)emulatorloo
(44,272 posts)You are entitled to your opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
― Daniel Patrick Moynihan
jalan48
(13,913 posts)and see how that sells to voters.
emulatorloo
(44,272 posts)Either put up or shut up.
jalan48
(13,913 posts)Democrat's who make millions giving speeches to Wall Street is a good thing? You really think so? Deal with it.
Response to jalan48 (Reply #24)
Post removed
jalan48
(13,913 posts)lapucelle
(18,409 posts)let me know.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,138 posts)oasis
(49,487 posts)Doesn't add up.
BeyondGeography
(39,395 posts)David Remnick has a good take on her tone deafness and how Trump (of all people) was able to benefit in the most recent New Yorker:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/09/25/hillary-clinton-looks-back-in-anger
jalan48
(13,913 posts)leftstreet
(36,119 posts)JI7
(89,289 posts)Did so because of that.
FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)As if those banks didn't expect anything in return for those big bucks except the privilege of listening to someone talk for half an hour.
jalan48
(13,913 posts)JHan
(10,173 posts)I'll wait.
There's a speech she gave where she talked about better representation for women in corporate world - and what else..
JHan
(10,173 posts)Wall Street gave more to Barack Obama in 2008 and he implemented dodd frank.
Seriously, this meme even some on the left parrot makes the GOP's job even easier.
JI7
(89,289 posts)They also voted against feingold.
JHan
(10,173 posts)Few want to touch on the post election data showing some ugly motivations among the WWC
JI7
(89,289 posts)Is that he may allow undocumented immigrants who came as children and know no other home to stay.
JI7
(89,289 posts)MrsCoffee
(5,803 posts)Will you be going on about her emails next?
LonePirate
(13,444 posts)Cumulatively, things took a toll on her popularity.
11cents
(1,777 posts)Clinton was more popular than Obama amongst WWC voters that were motivated to vote in Democratic primaries. That's not synonymous with "WWC voters" as a whole.
Eliot Rosewater
(31,138 posts)StevieM
(10,500 posts)State. She left office with 69 percent job approval and 66 percent favorability.
Many Americans just couldn't imagine that the GOP would blatantly exploit and lie about Benghazi. By the time they realized that the GOP could do that she had already been softened up for the fake email scandal. Then they couldn't imagine that there would be a big FBI investigation for no reason.
This was Comey's election. The FBI dominated it from beginning to end. HRC's poll numbers would have recovered from the lies about Benghazi and the fake email scandal if the FBI had not become totally corrupted.
JI7
(89,289 posts)By 2016 she was someone who supported and worked for the black man
JI7
(89,289 posts)JI7
(89,289 posts)And campaigned openly on the bigoted platform.
I know many white people think only white people can be working class but non white working class found nothing appealing or pro working class about trump.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)That's not opinion. It was glaring as early as 2014. There were countless ominous articles regarding white voting trends and how it would impact 2016. Whether it was Obamacare or a combination of variables, white working class voters became increasingly angry and shifted in meaningful percentage away from us.
The astonishing aspect is that Hillary and the Democratic Party were somehow unaware or unconcerned.
After the 2014 midterms I handicapped 2016 as a likely narrow defeat for Hillary. Everything pointed in that direction, given the situational trends that I favor. My intention was to pay no attention at all during 2016 because I knew the outcome would make me sick. Only after the GOP nominated Trump and he began to naturally implode did I perk up and think Hillary might narrowly get away with it.
But it was always going to be narrow. Hillary had no upside. Her peak was maybe 50% if everything went perfectly.
The interesting question is what would have happened with that white working class group if Hillary had been our nominee in 2008, as I preferred, and became president. Any Democrat would have prevailed in 2008 given the situational edge with Bush stuck in 32-42% approval for 3+ years post Katrina.
I suspect we would have suffered some leakage but not close to the Obama level. Perhaps half. But that's mostly a guess and I don't like to guess. Applying the situational variables allows me to have an edge minus guesswork.
Hillary would have come across as a tough woman in office, and those white working class voters would have had to respect it. A white woman pursuing and catching Osama bin Laden would have received far more praise and benefit of a doubt than Obama did.