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raccoon

(31,131 posts)
Tue Nov 14, 2017, 11:56 AM Nov 2017

Half of US adults have high blood pressure in new guidelines

MARILYNN MARCHIONE,Associated Press 17 hours ago

ANAHEIM, Calif. (AP) — New guidelines lower the threshold for high blood pressure, adding 30 million Americans to those who have the condition, which now plagues nearly half of U.S. adults.

High pressure, which for decades has been a top reading of at least 140 or a bottom one of 90, drops to 130 over 80 in advice announced Monday by a dozen medical groups.

(snip)

https://www.yahoo.com/news/half-us-adults-high-blood-pressure-guidelines-204049684.html

My fellow Duers, I think this is a crock. The medical community keeps moving the goalposts so as to increase the numbers of those who have high blood pressure, prediabetes, etc. Just to put more people on meds and make more money off patients.

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Half of US adults have high blood pressure in new guidelines (Original Post) raccoon Nov 2017 OP
My personal physician scoffed at the previous tigntening of recommendations for HDL and LDL as being Yonnie3 Nov 2017 #1
Not me, I'm under immense mental and emotional stress Blue_Tires Nov 2017 #2
No it isn't a crock. The Sprint study, on which this is based, is a very large and good study still_one Nov 2017 #4
You think it is a crock, based on what? Your opinion. Have you heard of the Sprint Study? still_one Nov 2017 #3
This message was self-deleted by its author LovingA2andMI Nov 2017 #5
BP meds are super cheep relatively speaking. defacto7 Nov 2017 #8
This message was self-deleted by its author LovingA2andMI Nov 2017 #10
Big Pharm isn't interested in making pennies defacto7 Nov 2017 #13
This message was self-deleted by its author LovingA2andMI Nov 2017 #21
But you are arguing against science, scientists defacto7 Nov 2017 #23
This message was self-deleted by its author LovingA2andMI Nov 2017 #28
Ha.. nice style... defacto7 Nov 2017 #35
Well, I'm not included in your royal "we". moriah Nov 2017 #37
This message was self-deleted by its author LovingA2andMI Nov 2017 #39
In other words, no one can disagree with you. Cool, good to know. moriah Nov 2017 #44
Just for the record, Tylenol w/ codeine Nevernose Nov 2017 #42
Its hard to believe theyd choose that condition as their new bag jmowreader Nov 2017 #12
This is true... defacto7 Nov 2017 #16
This message was self-deleted by its author LovingA2andMI Nov 2017 #20
Well it's a good thing you know better than a bunch of dumb scientists. trotsky Nov 2017 #15
This message was self-deleted by its author LovingA2andMI Nov 2017 #19
Facts mean more than opinions. trotsky Nov 2017 #22
... Kali Nov 2017 #26
Just when the goal post is in sight.... mitch96 Nov 2017 #6
BP meds can't be much of a money maker.. defacto7 Nov 2017 #7
They keep moving the goal posts on all Bettie Nov 2017 #9
This message was self-deleted by its author LovingA2andMI Nov 2017 #29
It's like science comes up with new information or something. WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2017 #11
we have a winner!!! Nt LostOne4Ever Nov 2017 #14
Crazy, huh? n/t trotsky Nov 2017 #17
I hate it when they do that. defacto7 Nov 2017 #18
damn goal-post-moving information Kali Nov 2017 #27
I'm pretty serious about diet and exercise... dpd3672 Nov 2017 #24
I think it's a crock, too DeminPennswoods Nov 2017 #25
This message was self-deleted by its author LovingA2andMI Nov 2017 #30
The operation was a success DeminPennswoods Nov 2017 #32
This message was self-deleted by its author LovingA2andMI Nov 2017 #33
Don't be DeminPennswoods Nov 2017 #40
They did the same with Cholesterol numbers about 15 yrs ago. SandyZ Nov 2017 #31
My pressure went up Nov 9th... HipChick Nov 2017 #34
Just raise it higher - epidemic solved lame54 Nov 2017 #36
I wonder how many of these 50% voted for Trump? Initech Nov 2017 #38
So half of us are now declared sick mainer Nov 2017 #41
This message was self-deleted by its author Oneironaut Nov 2017 #43

Yonnie3

(17,516 posts)
1. My personal physician scoffed at the previous tigntening of recommendations for HDL and LDL as being
Tue Nov 14, 2017, 12:02 PM
Nov 2017

drug company funded findings. I suspect he will feel the same about this change.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
2. Not me, I'm under immense mental and emotional stress
Tue Nov 14, 2017, 12:03 PM
Nov 2017

and am in wretched physical shape... My high blood pressure is legit, baby!

still_one

(92,509 posts)
4. No it isn't a crock. The Sprint study, on which this is based, is a very large and good study
Tue Nov 14, 2017, 12:23 PM
Nov 2017
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1511939#t=article

It is based on evidence.

As for the myth that this is a ploy to enrich drug companies, that is bunk. The most effective BP medicines are generic

Of course people will weigh their own risk and rewards, but the evidence shows reducing hypertension, even slightly, is beneficial.

gee, I guess with some people's logic, if someone gets a bacterial infection, better to not take antibiotics because it will enrich those drug companies, and then let's see what they say if a "simple UTI" goes septic

Work with your physician, not what someone on a message board's personal opinion is, and look at the evidence and make an informed decision






still_one

(92,509 posts)
3. You think it is a crock, based on what? Your opinion. Have you heard of the Sprint Study?
Tue Nov 14, 2017, 12:14 PM
Nov 2017


http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1511939#t=article

This study is not a Conspiracy study between the "evil drug companies", and the public. In fact, most of the effective BP medicines in use today are generic, and very cheap.

Yeah, they do move the goal posts as more knowledge, data and studies become available.

This ISN'T a crock.

There is always a balance, and ideal goals have to be weighed against side-effects.

Response to raccoon (Original post)

Response to defacto7 (Reply #8)

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
13. Big Pharm isn't interested in making pennies
Tue Nov 14, 2017, 01:41 PM
Nov 2017

on old established generic drugs. BP meds have been on market for a very long time, have a great success record and haven't been improved upon in years. Now if some company came out with some new flash bang drug with lots of kickbacks and a premium price while at the same time buying off cheap generics to discontinue, I'd agree with you. I'd also agree if the price skyrocketed by 10x.
I don't think my $1 a month Benazapril which is cheaper than Tylanol with or without codeine is filling the pockets of big pharm.

Response to defacto7 (Reply #13)

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
23. But you are arguing against science, scientists
Tue Nov 14, 2017, 02:49 PM
Nov 2017

and doctors, in otherwords, educated professionals, not big pharma. I have a huge problem with big pharma but automatically equating science with big pharma schemes is, well... a method used by the other side.

It's OK to disagree.

BTW... who is we?

Response to defacto7 (Reply #23)

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
35. Ha.. nice style...
Tue Nov 14, 2017, 05:41 PM
Nov 2017

Not my style though. You just seem to expect an ulterior motive when there's a differing opinion. I personally don't see that as productive.

Learning is a good thing. I can learn from you if it seems reasonable to do so.

As far as "we" is concerned, this is the Internet and there are no "we" here. It's a control device that I'm not too concerned with.

As much as I get the feeling you wish to paint me as a deceiver, that is not the fact but go for it if that meets your criteria for reality.

I really do wish the best for you on your journey. No emoticon necessary.

moriah

(8,311 posts)
37. Well, I'm not included in your royal "we".
Tue Nov 14, 2017, 06:30 PM
Nov 2017

I personally agree that Big Pharma isn't making much off of ANY generics.

You want to get into what's nuts and was a gigantic giveaway to Big Pharma in the name of the environment, vs the name of stopping the "opioid crisis" (which in many cases translates to "untreated pain and treating chronic pain patients like criminals" already without more paranoid delusions about Purdue making money off of drugs that haven't been on patent for years)?

Stripping use of CFCs from asthma inhalers. They're already proposing removing HFA inhalers, which STILL aren't generic, because of concerns about that propellant.

Do you seriously want to know how much GSK is getting from me just for my Advair Discus (even though the HFA works better my doctor is afraid they'll discontinue it), and how much Boehringer is for my Spriva Respimat (the newest tech to try to make an aerosol that doesn't destroy the ozone layer? How much just plain rescue inhalers, steroid inhalers, various other respiratory inhakers, cost because they aren't generic anymore, which made it cost-effective to even consider making these long-acting versions to replace what had been cheap but 4-6 times a day solutions for patients?

I'll be happy to dig up my Medicare billing records, and gladly show you. For what it's worth, I'm already into catastrophic coverage.

Response to moriah (Reply #37)

moriah

(8,311 posts)
44. In other words, no one can disagree with you. Cool, good to know.
Tue Nov 14, 2017, 07:29 PM
Nov 2017

Seriously, that's what they were dinging you on, the use of "we" in that fashion. The idea that you speak for everyone.

You don't.

Edit to add: If you are a DID patient and I am unintentionally being insensitive, sorry.

Nevernose

(13,081 posts)
42. Just for the record, Tylenol w/ codeine
Tue Nov 14, 2017, 07:07 PM
Nov 2017

Isn’t particularly addictive and is sold OTC in most countries. They just don’t sell more than eight at a time (that’s acetaminophen with or without codeine; cuts the suicide rate dramatically).

I realize it seems counterintuitive, but I believe we’d actually see a reduction in opioid addiction with more availability of small amounts of mild opiate pain relievers, such as Tylenol 1 or Tylenol 2. Treat pain more effectively but with milder medications.

jmowreader

(50,590 posts)
12. Its hard to believe theyd choose that condition as their new bag
Tue Nov 14, 2017, 01:31 PM
Nov 2017

Hypertension meds are really, really cheap and the ones that work have been around forever.

Response to defacto7 (Reply #16)

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
15. Well it's a good thing you know better than a bunch of dumb scientists.
Tue Nov 14, 2017, 01:43 PM
Nov 2017

With their silly "studies" and "statistics."

Response to trotsky (Reply #15)

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
22. Facts mean more than opinions.
Tue Nov 14, 2017, 02:30 PM
Nov 2017

We liberals should be embracing science. Conservatives have the anti-science market cornered.

Kali

(55,032 posts)
26. ...
Tue Nov 14, 2017, 03:11 PM
Nov 2017


the logic of conspiracy is always pretty funny. big pharma manipulating a large legit study to sell more cheap as hell generic BP meds? hell lose 10% of bodyweight and you might not even need those effective, cheap meds at all.

mitch96

(13,944 posts)
6. Just when the goal post is in sight....
Tue Nov 14, 2017, 01:12 PM
Nov 2017

They move the damn goal post.. The good thing is that most BP meds are generic.. From what I've read though is that the meds aren't as effective with Hi BP that's just over the limit..
DASH diet, excersize, meditation, weight reduction,etc work best at around those numbers..
YMMV.
m

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
7. BP meds can't be much of a money maker..
Tue Nov 14, 2017, 01:16 PM
Nov 2017

They're too cheep. Benazapril is one of the cheepest meds on the market. As for the other problems you mentioned, those are separate diagnoses.

Bettie

(16,148 posts)
9. They keep moving the goal posts on all
Tue Nov 14, 2017, 01:21 PM
Nov 2017

of the commonly measured metrics.

People cite studies, but if you dig into them, it is easy to discover that the majority of them are financed by...wait for it...the pharmaceutical and/or diet industries. They are the ones who will profit from this.

I'm guessing that there will be new drugs coming out very soon that will be prescribed rather than generics to ensure continued enormous profits.

Response to Bettie (Reply #9)

 

dpd3672

(82 posts)
24. I'm pretty serious about diet and exercise...
Tue Nov 14, 2017, 02:57 PM
Nov 2017

I'm confident I can get mine down to zero in the next 50 years or so.

DeminPennswoods

(15,295 posts)
25. I think it's a crock, too
Tue Nov 14, 2017, 03:02 PM
Nov 2017

My dad had HBP, then he started running and his BP came way down. Years later, he had an operation for an abdominal aortic anuerysm. After the surgery, I spoke with the vascular surgeon and asked if the HBP had contributed to the anuersym. The surgeon chuckled and said, no, Dad had probably had HBP all of his life, from which I inferred the surgeon meant Dad's body had adjusted to his natural HBP. My bottom line is everyone's body is different and sticking to a rigid standard isn't always the right choice.

Response to DeminPennswoods (Reply #25)

DeminPennswoods

(15,295 posts)
32. The operation was a success
Tue Nov 14, 2017, 04:53 PM
Nov 2017

My dad passed away (91+) 4.5 years ago from natural causes unrelated to the AAA.

Response to DeminPennswoods (Reply #32)

Initech

(100,143 posts)
38. I wonder how many of these 50% voted for Trump?
Tue Nov 14, 2017, 06:33 PM
Nov 2017

Would their almost cartoonish hatred for liberals qualify as something that would raise blood pressure?

Response to raccoon (Original post)

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