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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCouple sue after insurance agent tells police their hibiscus plants were pot
SARVER, Pa. (AP) -- A couple who say they were handcuffed for hours in a police patrol car after their hibiscus plants were confused for marijuana are suing the police and an insurance company.
Edward and Audrey Cramer say in a lawsuit filed Tuesday that a Nationwide Insurance Co. agent investigating a fallen tree at their Buffalo Township home sent photos of their flowering plant to police. The lawsuit alleges that Buffalo Township police officers with assault rifles went to their home on Oct. 7 to investigate.
Audrey Cramer, 66, said she was partially dressed when she went to the door and police would not let her put on pants before she was handcuffed.
"I was not treated as though I was a human being," she said. "I was just something they were going to push aside."
MyOwnPeace
(16,955 posts)she wasn't "in good hands!"
(I know, that's not really acceptable after all of the "issues" in the past few weeks, or rather, years, starting with IQ45's "grabbing!" .
I'll apologize now - and since I'm not running for any office nor do I have any TV/film series running, I'll guess that that's it!
However, if I were an insurance agent I think I know where I might find some potential new customers (since their last one didn't seem to be "on their side!"
docgee
(870 posts)Oh yeah, wrong insurance company.
joshdawg
(2,653 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)And good luck (not really!) finding a new one in that field. I used to be in property and casualty insurance. Turning clients in to the police for suspicious plants is neither a job nor a license requirement. In fact, I wonder if his actions could somehow have violated state licensing ethics.
Btw, prick that he obviously is, that agent may not have been bizarrely unclear about what cannabis looks like. Some perennial and wild hibiscus foliage does look a lot more like that than it does its distant relative, tropical shrub hibiscus. The former can be grown in PA gardens, the latter (which is shown in the picture in the article linked) cannot.
This is perennial hibiscus variety developed and marketed for "purple" foliage, but note the deeply cut leaves and loose, lacy habit.
BumRushDaShow
(130,043 posts)is Cleome - especially before it blooms in the fall!
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)order seed. Think I will, in fact!
Hopefully for PA gardeners, this very alarming incident will spark some needed education on IDing cannabis. There really was no excuse for those officers not giving the leaves a little rub.
BumRushDaShow
(130,043 posts)but would need to do it in containers where I am (little or no space...lol). I do know it reseeds and is a great plant to have for fall flowers!
Since I am in PA, I had to look up where that town was and it is northeast of Pittsburgh (looks pretty rural too) so apparently some clueless small-town yokels.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Sounds like a road trip visiting gardens up there in the early fall could be very pretty. Nice thought. We toured Kentucky, stopping at some gardens and nurseries, when Hurricane Irma took out our power for a week.
Any officer too sheltered to recognize the smell of pot needs to be sent home before he hurts himself, not just the public. Chances are all too real, of course, that per capita crime could be higher there than in Pittsburgh. It often is in rural areas.
BumRushDaShow
(130,043 posts)and along with some of the late dahlias, phlox, re-blooming roses, and sedums - at least here in the Philly area.
I've been trying to have something (shrubs and perennials, not counting bulbs) blooming from about April to frost. Have run out of room! lol Right now I start with lilacs and want to end with a crape myrtle and paniculata hydrangea (although my native honeysuckle & my clematises do rebloom in the fall).
I expect the "crack down" is probably due to a habit of meth raids and and more recently opioids, so they are hyped for it. As it is, PA DOES have a medical marijuana law now although they are still getting all the details ironed out with dispensaries, etc.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)There are flowers that can take the heat, and at least some periods of draught, and I need to plant for of those to replace ones that are failing, or gone.
That last is interesting. Just speculating out of line, but that insurance agent might have been acting out his disapproval of recent changes. Rereading Altemeyer's The Authoritarians , and if this guy isn't one of those and very upset that people are not being seriously punished for deviating, others are.
BumRushDaShow
(130,043 posts)is why people often end up with rebloomers after everything else has bloomed out. Some of the nicer later summer plants end up preferring shade! You also end up having to go with shrubs that bloom on new growth to get some kind of bloom until frost.
From what I gather from another link in this thread, the agent was actually a neighbor whose tree fell into the couple's yard, so it seems to me like there may have been something else going on there - http://www.abcactionnews.com/news/national/pennsylvania-couple-sues-police-after-police-misidentify-plant-as-pot
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)and so do I. I need to look for shrubs that bloom on new growth.
We just got our first ice in the bird bath last night, though, and it's been hot until last week. In spite of ice, we've yet to have a real, even light frost, though neighbors on the other side of the ridge have. Bizarre. And I can't divide a tough pink anemone I want to spread around because a yellow jacket nest I can't find hasn't gone dormant yet.
Used to be autumn started in the first week of September, and we'd have already had our first hard frost, garden seer and brown until spring. Instead I was out yesterday and found an old Veilchenblau rose putting out a few blooms. I've lost almost all my roses to implacable disease (and unwillingness to spray for those that can be stopped), but that one is still with us, draping from a tree it's climbed into and putting on a pretty show once a year.
Yes, "neighbors" would add a new dimension, maybe a few.
BumRushDaShow
(130,043 posts)and then have been generally back to the 40s/50s/60s during the day and 30s/40s at night. Did just think of something you could try - any of the salvias . I have a potted "Black and Blue" that is still blooming - I brought it in before the freeze then put it back out (I let a pineapple sage fry however...lol). Also lantana (have one of those potted that is back outside). I think as long as you cut them back after the initial bloom period, they will keep going until a freeze and you can overwinter those outside where you are.
The link in my post from the local station showed how the houses were configured and you can see the tall trees all around. The video also showed 3 dogs just outside the couple's house, so it probably is a "neighbor issue" and apparently a not-so-well-thought-out spite job. I think the national notoriety is going to result in some serious repercussions for that neighbor and their township.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)lantana that's considered hardy enough for here that probably is still putting on a great show with this heat.
I am so glad those people are suing and that this is around the nation. I just wish that sergeant at least was fired. He is extremely unfit for those responsibilities. And they tore out all their plants. I hope they're able to take pleasure in them again next year.
BumRushDaShow
(130,043 posts)they can grow big as I understand.
And yes - the disgrace of tearing out what were probably a somewhat rare hibiscus as it appears that the husband was a collector. I have a tropical hibiscus that I bring in and out every year (it's about 6 years old - a "Snow Queen" variegated one) and when you collect varieties, it can be painful to have your stuff die due to weather/cultural practices or due to animals or other pests - but being ripped out for something like this just adds insult to injury!!
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)That community really needs to insist that cop be fired as well. Protect and serve!
csziggy
(34,140 posts)BumRushDaShow
(130,043 posts)although their leaves tend to be lobed all around.
Virginia creeper too but who cares if it is a vine!!!!
Lindsay
(3,276 posts)in northeast Ohio, near Cleveland.
I always worried a little about mis-identification, since I had some neighbors who didn't like me much and liked to complain to the cops about whatever annoyed them. Fortunately, they stayed out of my back yard, where the plants were.
BumRushDaShow
(130,043 posts)It's just like many hobbyists overwinter tender plants indoors (like peppers, citrus, and various high-light tropicals) or even do seed starting for the next year's garden, and use high intensity lighting to improve the odds of bringing the plants through the winter with growth and flowers and/or fruit... However naturally you have the suspicious thinking that someone with those types of lights is growing marijuana inside.
madaboutharry
(40,247 posts)What idiots.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Nevertheless, I agree in substance with their incompetence, and gross negligence. Rubbing the leaves and smelling their fingers should have clued them in, at very, very least caused serious doubt, but they obviously didn't even do that.
yuiyoshida
(41,872 posts)Hibiscus ...um, Cannabis though many states!
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Spot on.
I can only wish down here in NC. Sigh.
trusty elf
(7,404 posts)I weep for America.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)And sad.
Maggiemayhem
(811 posts)That agent needs to lose his job and the police evidently are so clueless , you could call in any plant and fool them. Why would police need assault rifles for a single suspected pot plant? Maybe they should be tested for steroids and IQ. I hope she sues THE PANTS off the township and Nationwide.
Pacifist Patriot
(24,654 posts)What kind of damn moron thinks that looks remotely like a marijuana plant? ... oh wait, at least three I guess.
spooky3
(34,529 posts)The agent intended to harass the customersbut why?
ellie
(6,929 posts)LeftInTX
(25,812 posts)Hibiscus coccineus
FailureToCommunicate
(14,034 posts)Vinca
(50,334 posts)There is nothing about a report of one pot plant to warrant a full scale raid like that.
Blues Heron
(5,954 posts)Anybody remember that Jamaica tourist dept. ad?
samnsara
(17,665 posts)...at storm damage and instead he took pictures of a half finished old unused storage shed (not damaged) and used that as reason to stop their coverage and gave them week to have it 'repaired'. The insurance wouldn't even give them the photos or tell them what had to be done. They're in their 90s!!! Thank goodness they still had a small loan on the house and the banker was able to intervene on their behalf. The banker got their insurance back WITH a discount.
Insurance companies are in the business of NOT paying out anything.
Pacifist Patriot
(24,654 posts)I could not be happier with the service we got for our Hurricane Irma storm damage. Adjuster was out in less than a week, climbed up on our roof and tarped it for us when he found some damage, and claim money was wired into our bank account within 48 hours. They later wired additional funds to us when the quote from the roofing/contractor came in more than the adjuster had estimated.
USAA is the bomb!
The Polack MSgt
(13,208 posts)I've been with USAA for 20+ years.
If you're eligible (and they've loosened the requirements lately) get covered by USAA
phylny
(8,394 posts)Irish_Dem
(48,097 posts)the property after a claim is filed. Makes you wonder.
Javaman
(62,540 posts)fucking moron police and fucking moron insurance agent.
malaise
(269,328 posts)I'm glad for them - idiots must pay
bucolic_frolic
(43,511 posts)make them pay, folks. This is outrageous.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Idiots.
WinstonSmith4740
(3,060 posts)But if you're growing that plant, take a close look at it. It looks like it might be male and needs to be taken down.
bdamomma
(63,974 posts)idiots. And they come in various colours too.
LittleGirl
(8,292 posts)who didn't have her pants on? Come on, what is that about?
And they can't tell what pot looks like or smells like, WTF? Fire them.
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)And hire some real human beings to replace them.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)VermontKevin
(1,473 posts)liberalhistorian
(20,822 posts)they are brutal and hilarious! Some don't hold back on the, ahem, "colorful" language, lol.
"Nationwide is on your side---unless they can save some money by trumping up charges against you.."
BumRushDaShow
(130,043 posts)Last edited Mon Nov 20, 2017, 01:10 PM - Edit history (1)
is that the poor woman was interviewed and said that she now knows what people feel like when they say they "don't trust the police" and she no longer will either. She said she always thought people who said that had "done wrong" otherwise why would the police do that?
Ahh... yup. Welcome to the world of far too many POC and one of the reasons for the existence of BLM - especially when you have LOE planting evidence. She's lucky she wasn't laying dead in the back seat of the cruiser.
LisaL
(44,985 posts)bdamomma
(63,974 posts)a hibiscus plant and a marijuana plant. Or we would have a multitude of visitors visiting Bermuda if that was the case.
lame54
(35,351 posts)bagelsforbreakfast
(1,427 posts)ecstatic
(32,798 posts)I think a lot of people will start to see it soon. They say nothing when the abuse is focused on minorities, but cops are spreading their wings now. Good luck. At least some of us are already prepared.
moonseller66
(430 posts)The article that appeared online in the local newspaper
http://triblive.com/local/valleynewsdispatch/
has been pulled from their site supposedly due to requests from the police department involved.
Also a similar article appearing in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette
http://www.post-gazette.com/
appears to have either been buried, renamed or pulled making it very difficult to find.
The local rumors are that the police department is pissed because of the publicity yet are not willing to accept blame. So far no action concerning the officers involved has taken place.
And people get pissed over kneeling foe the 1933 national anthem.