But it was better said by a survivor.

And I can tell you I initially reserve judgment when accusations come out and believe the woman because for too long people wouldn't listen or believe. But this one doesn't pass the smell test. Furthermore, as this drags on, the accusations get lamer and lamer.

Franken needs to stop apologizing and get back to work.

Bravo!!

Senator Franken is in the proverbial 'between a rock and a hard place' scenario, as to how he should respond.

and this doesn't even come close to passing the smell test.

It reeks of ratfucking.

the way he is handling the issue, and also because of the way Tweeden is allowing herself to be used. That said, I’m also convinced that if humanity is ever going to evolve into enlightened egalitarianism, we need to eventually get beyond the behavior of isolated individuals, and focus on the system that created this mess. This nine-minute interview with feminist icon bell hooks is a good starting point. http://www.wnyc.org/story/bell-hooks-roots-male-violence-against-women/

...written.

It boils down to "I had it worse, so shut up and deal with it". People have had worse than she did. Do they get to say she should do the same?

It’s about false equivalence and the belittling of serous assault abuse and harassment and we know and recognize the difference. It’s about an annoyance that can be handled on the spot vs a life altering encounter.

and a woman like Tweeden who consented to do the skit, not only that, she had sexually suggestive skits for the same show, some were prepared and some she did out of inspiration. I don't know that kissing the soldier was on the script.

There is something else about Tweeden's story, her claim is that Franken kissed her when they were alone with the pretext of rehearsing. Franken does not remember her story, and there was a soldier who seemed to accompany Franken everywhere, even went to the bathroom when Franken went to the bathroom, and he said that Franken was never without a military chaperon. That is why I am convinced that Tweeden's story must be investigated, my instinct tells me this is a made-up story by Fox and their Russian friends.

Hey, their is an idea for a new Fox show...."Fox and Russian friends"

It's the reason for the script

What we don't know - was the soldier given the heads up or did she surprise kiss him assuming he would be into it

At least in the movies, back in the days of John Wayne and Cary Grant the woman would get the unwanted kiss and slap his face and that would be it. Even if it happened, it was only a kiss. He really didn't grope her. She wasn't raped and she wasn't a minor.

I think you're deliberately missing the point. Certainly others who've "had it worse" (and how can you know?) can speak out if they so choose.

...but just because a crime is wrong doesn't mean the accused is guilty.

Let's step back and think logically. Let's say someone is accused of a heinous murder. Arguing hiw heinous the crime is ddoesn't have ANYTHING to do with whether the accused is guilty or innocent.

Regarding sexual harassment, what Franken has done simply does not measure up to the standards.

The irony here is setting up Franken loosens our standards for the real harrassers.

False accusers can easily use the cover mantra of "you must believe every woman".

This "you must believe every woman who tells a story" is damaging the cause of getting the stories of real victims out. There are plenty of women who are liars. I will not knee jerk believe just because a claim came from a woman. The stories have to make sense, and anonymous claims have no credibility at all in my book.

Every story should be carefully weighed for credibility - best if done under a formal public process such as an investigation with sworn testimony.

The Republican Party wants to annihilate us and we have given them the weapon

That is why I despise and don't believe the Franken accusers...spoiled entitled liars who don't know what it really feels like to be attacked...it is not something you ever get over...and women like Tweeden and the others will in the end make it more difficult for real victims to be believed. i hope this ...person (no word bad enough I can use here) chokes on her book deal...she has betrayed women for her right wing buddy Hannity and for money.

I bet these are all paid by republicans, or maybe Putin

As a survivor and rape counselor, I totally agree. Leeann Tweeden is evil and has hurt women's causes so much with her twisted rwn partisan lies, to conflate the would be child rapist with some lame, non-harmful, comedy.

This is one of the best written response to Leeanne Tweeden and other right wing accusers. Thank you for calling both Democrats and republicans out on this.

Is not only very well written, it just touches every point that needs to be exposed.

I myself will be passing around the link.

This article must reach the DNC.

And this Leanne Tweeden should feel that an investigation on her allegations will be done, I have a feeling that she is going to to freak out.

Shame on the democrats for throwing Franken under the bus without any thought or any research on the accuser.

That's what the rightwing counts on every time they craft these stories for public release. Too many Dems are so eager to "believe every woman" or "show how fair they are" that the Repubs can reliably count on us to eat our own.

=========

when the accusations turn out to be true, (Weiner, Spitzer) they are out of office and not welcomed back like Vitter with a standing ovation.

But, when the accusations are spurious, too often, we still throw the guy out.

These kind of accusations (spurious at best) also make it much harder for actual rape and sexual assault victims to come forward as it puts "he touched my butt" on a higher plane than, well, anything a Republican does.

So, Roy Moore gets to ride into the senate on his high horse while Al Franken will quite possibly be chased out of office due to ratfucking. There is something really, really wrong with that picture.

... laugh and say, "Thanks! That was too easy!" and high-five as they take another Senate seat, or governorship, or state house, or...

========

into destroying their own on the command of right wing ratf**kers.

Totally agree

assault a woman with others present and have someone else take a picture of it. Such total b.s. For me it's the fact that all the women who have worked with Al insist that he has never been anything but respectful of them. Men who don't respect women don't respect them when they are at work on the set of SNL or the Senate but disrespect them on a USO tour or at a State Fair. We all know men like this and they take their shot whenever and wherever they think they can get away with it.

I call b.s on Tweeden and will be very happy when the hearings are held and Franken can produce evidence of photo-shopping and a Trump or Putin connection. It's a set up.

what a non turn-on!

If the flak jacket photo was staged then Franken and the photographer would say it was staged.

Franken has never said it was staged.

It was a stupid childish and wrong to take a photo like that of a sleeping woman.

Should he resign. Absolutely not and it is silly to even discuss it. But defending the photo is disgusting.

what was going on, it was staged. It was a joke and a set up and she was in on it from the start. There were lots of people present, she wasn't asleep and no one would get their jollies grabbing someone who is wearing a flak jacket. So, as I said, I'll be happy when we have the hearings and all the people involved can present their information.
I think we will discover that she is being paid for her outrage.

sexually assault her. It is a joke. In very poor taste but still a joke. As I keep saying, we need the hearing. Hopefully they will have identified the photographer by then. They will have other people who interacted with both of them on the trip. They will have lots more information. My personal experience is that men who hit on and objectify women don't just do it "sometimes". They do it whenever the opportunity presents itself. The fact that not one women who has worked with Al has made any sort of complaint and that they all have stated that he is very respectful of them, leads me to believe that there is something else going on here.

I guess we will find out but for now, I don't believe these young women any more than I believed that John McCain had a black baby no matter how much evidence the right wing presented.

no excuse. Of course he should not resign but for us to try to defend it is wrong.

They have had to abandon all values to do it, but that doesn't bother them at all.

The narrative has been changed from what Roy Moore's accusers have said to one of "they all do it, and they all justify it when their side does it."

People who vote and only make up their minds on the weekend before an election are simply not paying attention, and they are susceptible to the the last thing whispered into their ear.

A banquet for thought. Thanks for posting, babylonsister.

In particular:

"Leeanne Tweeden was not then and is not now a victim. A very large part of me wishes she had been, though."

Is that really a sentiment folks here want to applaud?

that might have recognized the pain she seems to have inflicted on others.

You also might be missing it?

It seems like that would go without saying.

victims. No one suggested applause for it.

I find that sickening, and I would think others would as well.

Some guy grabbing a kiss is no fucking way like rape and if some guy gives me an unwanted kiss I sure do not feel like a victim. I could bite his tongue if I choose or just push him away.

and how can you cram your tongue into a closed mouth? One could also just turn away in the scene Tweeden describes. Or bite down. HARD.

Bullshit!

In a pretty emotionally charged way.

The line that I cited is pretty despicable, even if only a rhetorical device (though I'm not convinced the author does not wish Tweeden harm based on the rest of what she has written).

... "I wish she HAD been another brave victim standing up to the culture that normalizes sexual harassment and violence, rather than someone exaggerating and embellishing her normal experiences to serve the purposes of a rightwing that is manipulating her, and, in so doing, minimizing and diluting the very real, very serious issues faced by victims every day."

In context of the article, this was my take, and it is a far cry from actually wishing harm on Ms. Tweeden.

===========

I could be misreading her intention.

Still, it seems a little odd to have written it the way that she did, saying that "a very large part of me" wishes Tweeden had been a victim. One can see how that might be taken negatively.

This author compares two options that might be true. One, that Tweedeon were a woman finally empowered to speak out about sexual abuse she'd suffered in the past.

The other, in which Tweeden were a woman taking a situation with which she was perfectly comfortable and pretending that it was a traumatic experience as part of an attempt to score political points for the Right Wing and disgrace a Democrat.

The author doesn't say,"I hope you get sexually assaulted," and can't even entirely commit to wishing option one were true over option two, because she doesn't wish sexual assault on others.

Of course, I don't know her and can't speak for her, but that's how her words, which do speak for her, come across to me.

Could be interpreted in a number of ways. I took it as a way of saying that if Tweeden had experienced serious trauma at some point, she might not have allowed herself to be used as a pawn in a political hit job because she would have had an experiential sensitivity she apparently lacks. Essentially, we wouldn't be where we are now.

I don't tend to wish ill on others, but I've found myself with similar thoughts based on circumstances. Silly example, but last year when I had wrist surgery my husband got a little impatient with me at times (he's a great guy, and has been a rock through my five surgeries in the last six years - it was a strangely slow mend for me). At one point I blurted out, "I wish you'd had someone slice you open and mess around in your joints!"

Did I really want my husband to endure the pain of surgery? Of course not. But if he'd ever had a surgery, lucky bastard hasn't, he'd have understood what I was going through a little better.

The phrase didn't rub me the wrong way because I interpreted it in that vein.

Post after post......

Your lot will claim he doesn't deny it out of one side of your mouth while blasting those who defend him out the other.

There is no way he can win right now, so he's doing exactly what he should be while it all shakes out.

He sent her a personal note where he said: "I understand why you could feel violated by that photo" and "I am ashamed that my actions ruined that experience for you. I am so sorry."

The author of this piece, on the other hand, is explicitly saying that Tweeden is a liar and that a large part of her wishes Tweeden had been a victim of sexual assault.

That is despicable - and completely counter to what Franken, admirably, wrote in his letter of apology.

That environment was rife with innuedo and fooling around, she's a right winger doing her thing attacking Franken for political reasons rather than any trauma, in my opinion

How about, "I am sorry that I assaulted you"?

Clearly, these apologies were crafted by his lawyers, not Al Franken.

eom

assault.

Your pertinent finds that you share are something I really missed while I was away.

Franken was right to apoligize. The part I really liked about the article is how she describes how the Republican party twists their shit around onto somebody else. We need a 24/7 teach in about that subject, there's enough material for a cable channel on that issue over the years.

and was about to post it when i saw your thread.

i was reading it and thinking: EXACTLY!!

I'm sick of the media calling her brave. She is selling out women for her own greed and profit. Those who praise or even condone her are doing the same.

I agree. She mocks the real victims of sexual assault, like me and many women on this forum

This.

A few of my posts here and while I am a staunch and fierce supporter of the millions of females, children and males who have genuinely been victimized daily/hourly, I also know that there are “victims” who lie. Their reasons are varied, but they lie.
In doing so, especially in this Cretin-enabled, twisted brained society, their one lie does massive damage to the validations of true victims.


I believe Franklin is the victim in this attack.
Politically, most certainly.

aren't "real" victims? Or, perhaps because Al didn't actually rape Tweeden, she should just shut up?

How about that they don't like having their asses grabbed by men who have no business grabbing their asses?

The hypocrisy and double standards knows no boundaries on this forum.

I'll wait for a real apology from Al. Not the one where he says he feels terrible because some woman "feels badly". Or, "my humor wasn't funny". You know... the one where he says, "I'm sorry for my bad behavior".

Be careful, now.

This article cuts to the proverbial chase, dissecting the way the Republican party forces the Democratic party to play a bad hand, and the willful ignorance on the part of the Democratic party that they are being played.

One of the key functions of the Democratic Party is supposed to be to protect its constituents and the nation from attacks by the Republican Party. They are supposed to have an exhaustive list of narratives strong enough to counter the most complex of political accusations, in addition to this predictable, rookie-level attempt to lump Al Franken into the same category as Roy Moore. They are supposed to have the media and legal prowess attuned enough to protect both the leaders and the members of the Democratic party from these predictable but incredibly dangerous attacks. The Democratic Party is supposed to ensure that a pussy grabber and a party of pedophiles don’t get to control how we talk about sexual violence let alone what we do about it.