and I am a Yankee. It is a part of history. The Confederate flag is another matter. It is shorthand for slavery and racism. As our President said, put that flag in a museum.

We need to remember all of our history, not just the parts we like.

And if it's not even from that era (thus you can't claim it's a historical artifact from the period), then what is its purpose?

battlefield where he was wounded before turning traitor. The monument is I believe a statue of his boot and/or leg where he was wounded.

So is it a balancing act? What else did Davis do? Why is Lee honored with "Lee Hall" at West Point? (There is also Grant Hall and Eisenhower Hall.)

And why was Patton's statue outside the library when he spent so little time there?

There's a story about Arnold from just after the war ended. One of his fellow veterans of Saratoga, where he was wounded in the leg and the leg statue stands, was asked what they'd have done with Arnold had they caught him. The response was, "We'd have buried the leg with full military honors and hung the rest of him."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boot_Monument

I do not approve of destroying such works, but it should be in a position to celebrate or honor that evil man. Put it in a museum, where it belongs.

Since the adoption of the US Constitution in 1789, when the US has gone to war, with one exception, have adopted that the President of the US leads the war and the war is run out of the White House. This same policy was adopted by Jefferson Davis when he was President of the Confederacy.

The only exception to this rule, since 1789 (and one of two exception if you include the American Revolution of 1775-1783) is the US Civil War, when Lincoln REFUSED to run the War from the White House, instead constantly kept going back to Congress for authorization to do things. This method of making war was advised to him by his Secretary of War (who had been Buchanan's Attorney General) on the grounds that if Lincoln ran the war through the White House the North would lose the war. Lincoln knew he had to keep not only the American people supporting the war, but Congress and he did it by making sure anything he did had Congressional support. Lincoln would even REFUSE to do things until he had Congressional support (Lincoln's call up of the Militia and the call for what is called his 90 day Troops were done, NOT as a power of the Presidency, but as President as an AGENT of Congress. i.e. Congress, once in session had to approve, or Lincoln would have sent the soldiers back home.

Now, some historians attack Lincoln's method, but it had the affect that Congress had to back Lincoln not only in deeds but votes. If Congress every voted against something, Lincoln made sure every Congressman knew Lincoln do what Congress told him to do. Thus Congress could NOT oppose what Lincoln was doing, for before Lincoln did something he made sure Congress had voted for it first. Lincoln's plans for the war was written by Congress (through directed by Lincoln). In many ways Lincoln ended up running the Civil War like Washington had run the Revolution, through Congress (Remember Washington during the Revolution was only the Commander of the Army, he was NOT President, he was an elected member of the Continental Congress, but that was all). The Continental Congress made Washington Commander of the Army, and could remove him at any time.

Now, Lincoln could NOT be removed by Congress but his powers over the military could be cut by Congress. Thus Lincoln made every effort to make sure Congress was involved in every part of the War, right down to who were the commanders in the field (Grant was promoted from Colonel to Brigadier General by an act of Congress due to the efforts of his own Congressman to make sure one of his constituents became one of the four Brigadier Generals made in that increase in ranks by Congress, Grants raise in ranks afterward was due to his ability but Grant even had to watch the political maneuvers in Washington).

Just a comment, Jeff Davis tried to run the War like Madison had run the War of 1812, Polk the Mexican war of 1846-1848, and Buchanan had run the beginning of the Civil War between 1857 and 1861 (Most Southern States succeeded from the Union under Buchanan not Lincoln and the siege of Fort Sumter began under Buchanan not Lincoln), that is with the President running the show and Congress just providing the money (Through with some over sight but nothing to do with actual military operations). Thus hard decisions that Davis opposed was not adopted til it was to late (In January 1865 the South finally decided to free any Slave who agreed to enlist in the Army and pay his owner for the value of the slave, to little to late but it was the Confederate Congress that did that proposal NOT Jeff Davis. Also in January 1865 the Confederate Congress finally made Robert E, Lee Commander in Chief of the entire Southern Army, something Jeff Davis had opposed, again to little to late and mostly do to Jeff Davis refusal to have the Confederate Congress participate in running the war).

Yes, how Wilson ran WWI, FDR ran WWII, how LBJ and later Nixon ran Vietnam and how both Bushs ran the wars in the Persian Gulf is how Jeff Davis ran the Civil war, unlike Lincoln who made every effort to get congress on board not only the funding and planning, but the actual running of the war. This was Jeff Davis's greatest failure, in many ways a bad President, you needed a master politician to run the war, and in that regard, Lincoln was one of the best politicians this country had ever produced.

Antebellum, and I believe that and racism are the only thing that flag symbolizes, Robert E Lee and Thomas Jackson are two of the most honorable Americans we have ever produced, I can not say the same for Jefferson Davis, but I repeat I do take back my Megalomaniac crack, Thanks again .

“He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past.”
― George Orwell, 1984

I doubt the removal of celebratory statue followed by its placement in a museum is any type of time-control. The myopic and irrational may think otherwise.

but I digress...

One step at a time.

Did Jefferson predicate by necessity the existence of the nation on slavery, or was slavery merely part and parcel of a greater whole?

(Historical context is important even to the half-witted and sub-literate, despite the adamant rationalizations otherwise soon to be posted below)

in early drafts of the Declaration of Independence, the language that said “All men are born equally free and independent” was changed by Thomas Jefferson to “All men were created equal” to prevent the implication that slaves should be free.

get their junk off our lawn!!

Just as they removed Cecil Rhodes statue in Cape Town, SA

Statue of traitors should never be erected in the first place

Get it off the UT campus just as soon as possible. Maybe Rick Perry could present it to A&M.

to the Divided States of America. Then let each state decide how they want to remember the past.

...and see what happens.

I thought we had moved past that kind of ancient ritual of trying to remove any sign of the past.
Didn't they do that in ancient Egypt and ancient Rome?
While we're at it, lets remove any mention of the Civil War from our History Books,
and any sign they ever existed from our battlefields and our history.


It is better to study these people, ans find where they went off the Human Decency tacks.
WE could start with our current crop of politicians, Republican & Democrat.
The ones who are selling out the American Working Class & Poor are no less traitors than the Confederate Generals.

I'd rather people wonder why there is a statue of Jeff Davis, than wonder why there is not.

-- Mal

Replace it with statue of Willie Nelson.

UT Alum (me, not Willie)

it is a confederate state. What's to be expected? Nothing less and will be a whole lot more hate coming out of cruz's state. He was making jokes about the shooting in SC wasn't he. Something along the lines of "what's gun control? Shooting straight" or something like that. He was voted in by texans. Nothing else matters.

Just clarifying that there ARE people who are Texans that don't happen to agree with Cruz or the stupid jokes that he keeps making. His actions and his words have been insulting.

Some Texans are working hard down here to take the state back to reason and dignity.

The students hate that statue

Last edited Mon Jun 22, 2015, 10:35 PM - Edit history (1)

And any place or holiday named for a slaveowner should be renamed. "Washington, DC" could become "Adams, DC", for example.

against the majority of the country that wanted to get rid of it.

Much as Mussolini's portraits should yet hang in Rome if Giuseppe Garibaldi's hang also.

I realize that context is difficult for the myopic mind defining itself as clever... yet I think you can do it.

The university says

"The statue dates to the close of World War I. Jefferson Davis was juxtaposed with a statue of Woodrow Wilson and they were designed to show that the American effort in World War I brought the final reunification of the nation after the rupture of the Civil War"

It almost brings tears to my old rheumy eyes, as I recall how the most wonderful thing about WWI was Jeffie Davis and Woodie Wilson singing Kumbaya! together and ushering in a new era of national unity and understanding. By then, Jeffie's voice probably didn't have the power it once had, since he'd been dead almost thirty years when the Yanks finally steamed over to France to fight the great war-to-end-all-wars; but political gobble-de-gook never relies heavily on logic. Cynics, of course, may suspect that factors, other than a new-found friendliness between North and South, played some role in smuggling Jeffie onto the UT campus:

... Around the time of World War I a new Ku Klux Klan, patterned after the original one, made its appearance ... The success of D. W. Griffith's .. Birth of a Nation .. had helped to fan .. racial animosity ... Also fueling the fire was a growing American nativist movement with its concomitant distrust of Catholics, Jews, African Americans, and other "foreign" elements. At first the new Klan grew slowly, but in the aftermath of World War I, the organization spread rapidly ... At its height in the early 1920s the new Klan boasted some two million members ... Some Texans were receptive to the Klan's angry and insular message, and by the early 1920s membership in the state organization numbered in the tens of thousands. Hooded legions paraded in Texas cities and towns ...

marched down Pennsylvania Ave. But I must admit, they couldn't, shouldn't try stupidity like that today.

You know, those "traitor's foods"?

outlaw the racist pigs that might eat it. That's what I say. Otherwise it seems logical that food is not committing murders and executions of unarmed and innocent american citizens. Unless we want to indict mr. cholesterol. He's a killer...

Well, we could start by separating them into special "re-education" camps, and use 'okra gumbo and sweet tea' aversion therapy to treat them...

it three times a day and their in between snacks while watching all AA movies 24/7 with sound up loud, it might change them. .......you're right.... .......

it's mature to revere racist slave owners? It shouldn't matter that they held thousands in bondage and killed many more than that.

Non sequitur.

would be something without merit, since your statement in the beginning had not an ounce of humanity to it.

We should probably get Washington off the dollar bill and rename our nation's capital, huh?

I also tend to find it best not to hold ourselves to the standards of the 1st century.

by unofficially renaming it "Angela Davis Parkway".

Thread in the Texas Group:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/107826507

Three statues of Confederate figures at the University of Texas were “tagged” with graffiti overnight.

Vandals painted the words “BLACK LIVES MATTER” on the base of each statue, with “BUMP ALL THE CHUMPS” added to that of Jefferson Davis, who was president of the Confederacy.

The vandalism comes as the new UT president, Gregory L. Fenves, is reviewing the role of such statues at the university and as the nation reels from the slaying of nine black churchgoers in Charleston, S.C., in what authorities say was a racist attack by a white gunman.

A UT Student Government resolution calls for the removal of Davis’ statue from the South Mall. On June 3, Fenves’ first day as the university’s leader, he pledged to consult with students and faculty members before making a decision on the matter.

Read more: http://www.statesman.com/news/news/local/graffiti-painted-on-three-confederate-figures-stat/nmjbS/

I'd rename any building or street or anything else named after traitors and I'd chisel off the relief carved into Stone Mountain. Nowhere in the US should traitors be "honored" on government property.

the Jefferson Davis statue if his only claim to fame was being the President of the CSA but it isn't.

He served honorably in the Mexican-American War, he was a Congressional representative, a US senator and Secretary of War, all of which might warrant a statue in his honor.