I thought it was 'turn the other cheek'.

Although there was that bit with God sending 2 she-bears to tear apart a couple of score of kids making fun of Elijah for being bald...

Or are they just attention seekers? Are they fundamentalists upset about the prosperity gospel Osteen espouses?

Last edited Mon Jun 29, 2015, 05:45 PM - Edit history (1)

I hope no charges are filed. Osteen needs to turn the other cheek.

People who blink a lot when talking a often lying and this guy can't get three words out without blinking.

Unless there is some physiological problem.

...which you can read about below. But to be brief, the hecklers were from the Church of Wells, the link to which I'll post after the news stories below.

[url]http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Six-charged-with-criminal-trespass-in-Lakewood-6355746.php[/url]

The incident at Lakewood marks the latest instance in which of Church of Wells members have made headlines.

Controversy surrounded the church when the parents of 28-year-old Catherine Grove claimed the organization was brainwashing her. According to published reports, she left the University of Arkansas in 2013 to join the church. She was later reunited with her family after calling 911 for help, but 12 days later, she returned, announcing she was engaged to another member. She later released a video statement claiming she did not want to permanently be back with her family, but only wanted to speak with them about the engagement.

The church also made headlines in 2012 when a member couple allegedly prayed over their dying newborn daughter instead of calling 911, according to news reports.

An unrelated news story on one of the men arrested in the heckling incident:

[url]http://www.kplctv.com/story/29345353/harassment-case-involving-church-of-wells-deacon-settled-in-ny-court[/url]

A court case involving a Church of Wells deacon was settled in New York on Tuesday, June 17. Church of Wells deacon Richard Trudeau was arrested in Franklin County, New York, in 2014 following allegations that he made threatening phone calls to a woman who he has a child with in the area.

According to prosecuting attorney Effie Kyriakopoulous, the case was settled after both sides agreed a second- degree harassment charge would be dropped if Trudeau could follow specific orders over the next year.

“My client filed a family offense petition after Trudeau made threats that his son would get brought to him,” family attorney Kevin Nichols said. “On the call, my client asks how her son would get brought and Trudeau says because you will be dead.”

The website to the Church of Wells, complete with manifesto and sermons:

[url]http://www.thechurchofwells.com/[/url]

They sound dangerous. I hope they can be stopped before they grow any larger.

...but the First Amendment ends at someone else's property line.

In that the First Amendment only governs government suppression of speech, and not that of private property holders. They always have the right to tell you to GTFO.

Why do so many not understand this. They all think it is the right to speak freely anywhere and not be criticized, interrupted or disagreed with.

teach them the 1st amendment rights (heck all Constitutional rights) apply whether you agree or disagree with the message.

I thought god welcomed all

Probably only a matter of time as their leaders are really about power and money. They are running out of acceptable targets of hate and fund raising.

Aren't they special.

It is a cult.

It seems to me, if Osteen is a real "man of God" and follower of Jesus, he would go to these people and talk with them. At the very least, I don't think he should press charges. Get them off his property if he wishes, but not press charges.

Only the charlatans, - let's be honest, Real Christians stay home with their families. Real Christians understand that these charlatans are lying to them. They are slowly beginning to understand the significance of years of lies upon themselves.

I'm not a religious man. But I will say to these Christians, May God bless you, keep you safe, and allow you to do what's right.

It's how they procreate... Televangelists have always seemed rapey to me...

It should be invalid and stricken from the record any mention of religion in government. I don't want to hear any parables. I won't participate in a fantasy world. We have REAL world problems to deal with.

I don't get the whole "mega church" thing, and I was raised in the Catholic church with a big fancy place made of imported marble. (I came to my senses long ago luckily). How do folks go to these big places and not realize what the money they are giving the church is going to? I used to go to big rock concerts, and there was no doubt where the money was going! But it was supposed to be that way. I guess people think giving the church money is to save their own soul/golden ticket to heaven and they don't care that it is not helping anyone but the person preaching.Or that was my take from what I learned as a kid.

You can pretty much guarantee, that any Super Pastor, or Mega Church, is a bunch of money hungry grifters, who found themselves an easy way to collect money from well-meaning people. BTW, every dollar I ever spent on a rock concert was worth it, but you couldn't pay me enough money to go back to church. I'd have to be heavily sedated.

Likewise those only there to disrupt should not force their disruption in others. The others attending have rights also.

Let others worship if they want.

Own show. That is a new standard I do not know much about.

Like I told my folks years ago when they tried talking me into going to Willow Creek (a local megachurch), any church with a food court is not personal enough for me.

They have the right to tell others what to do.

...they need to look into their own choices, not mine.

Than try to get into religious arguments with people.

Choices. I do not need any more of the RW thinking to tell me what to do or not to do. Religion is a choice, let all make their decision.

Is preventing anyone from making choices? You're starting to worry me...

You might want to google and find out a little more about this guy.

His church is a tad more liberal than others. He gives a great message. I'm sorry this happened to the audience as well as Joel.

You're looking at the big picture, which I very much appreciate.

Wait. So the late Clementa Pinckney, Depayne Middleton Doctor, Cynthia Hurd, Susie Jackson, Ethel Lance, Tywanza Sanders, Daniel Simmons Sr., Sharonda Coleman-Singleton and Myra Thompson were not "real Christians" because they gathered for church services and Bible studies, as do their surviving family, friends, parishioners?

[url]http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/24/us/charleston-church-shooting-main/[/url]

To recap, the hecklers have been identified as members of the Church of Wells, which, to judge by news stories, is no stranger to disruption and controversy itself.

[url]http://www.kltv.com/story/24429745/nacogdoches-authorities-respond-to-911-call-at-church-of-wells-elders-wedding[/url]

Tensions were high at Millard's Crossing in Nacogdoches Sunday when police responded to a disturbance involving the controversial "Church of Wells".

Nacogdoches police officer Brad Shaw said he responded to the scene after an unknown person called 911 reporting someone had a shotgun.

When officers arrived they found no such disturbance but did find Andy Grove, the father of Catherine Grove, who left her life in Arkansas last July to join the "Church of Wells."

Andy Grove told the East Texas News he heard "Church of Wells" elder, Sean Morris, was getting married and suspected his daughter Catherine would be there.

(SNIP)

Grove said he was asked to leave the property because the "Church of Wells" had rented a portion of the property for a private wedding.

Here's a Texas Monthly article on the Church of Wells:

[url]http://www.texasmonthly.com/story/is-the-church-of-wells-a-cult/page/0/1[/url]

In early 2010, while attending a Bible-translating conference in Duncanville, Catherine had met a traveling evangelist who told her about a small, nondenominational New Testament church, led by three young street preachers, that its members considered to be the only church in America practicing true biblical Christianity. A year later, in 2011, not long after her grandfather’s death, she had begun communicating over email and on Skype with members of the church, which had started calling itself the Church of Arlington. During the next two years she had gradually been persuaded to come and join the church herself.

The Groves knew nothing about this church, which had subsequently relocated and changed its name to the Church of Wells. It was led by three twentysomething “elders” named Sean Morris, Ryan Ringnald, and Jacob Gardner. The church’s “statement of faith” on its website seemed fairly standard, but its manifesto was notably zealous, claiming that the church was able to “resurrect [Jesus’s] standard of righteousness which has long lain without a Church to bear it” and implying that no other churches could say the same.

I suspect the Church of Well members aren't going to sit down with leaders of any other congregations in the near future.

Also, consider what heckling is: getting attention through disrupting an event, any event. It might draw an attention to an issue, but more likely the focus will be on the heckling itself -- who did it, why, how the speaker reacted.

Consider too what it's like to be on the receiving end of heckling when yours is the event being disrupted.

I don't believe it is right to protest during a religious service inside a house of worship but he should have met with them after the service.

He is an absolute saint/liberal compared to the Church of Wells

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Wells

In May 2012, a member's three-day-old infant died. Instead of seeking medical attention, the Elders carried the infant's body from house to house, praying for the baby to be resurrected for more than fifteen hours before calling 911.[2][3]

In July 2013, Catherine Grove, 26, disappeared from her home in Arkansas without notice, abandoning her car and belongings, only to resurface weeks later under heavy guard at the Church of Wells. She said that she is not being held against her will, and was only "seeking the Lord",[4][5] This is consistent with the accounts of several other members who have cut off nearly all contact with their friends and family.[4] Based on these incidents, the Church of Wells has often been called an emerging cult.[4] On April 2, 2015 Grove left the church and returned to her family in Arkansas.[6] However, she returned to the church only twelve days later (April 14, 2015). [7]

In April 2014, Sean Morris and member Taylor Clifton were injured following a physical altercation during the Wells community homecoming parade. Witnesses report the two men caused a disturbance by "preaching harshly and screaming 'You're going to hell' to children, parents and parade-goers."[8] In the recorded video of the preaching of Taylor Clifton, he can be heard saying of God, "He loves you. He cares for you." The injured members did not fight back, nor did they press charges.[8]

fire and brimstone fundy crazies are in the same cult league as the Westboro Baptist Church. I wonder why they decided to pick on Joel? Everyone with the ability to reason knows he runs his con for the proceeds of the offering plate and nothing more. Maybe that's it. Maybe his being a flimflam man rather than a lunatic bothers them.

Let's get ready to rumble!

Exploding Bible Thumpers and Hymnal Dirty Bombs will be cast down amongst our enemy and we will smote it like its hot. (smote it like it's hot, smote it like it's hot)

can protestors be arrested in a place of sanctuary?

One weeks worth of donations was stolen from their vault. A cool $600K, and it was just a regular week, not a holiday or anything special to bump up donations. Do the math. $600K times 52 is over $30 Million - TAX FREE.

Here's his house:



17K square feet, worth $11 Million. That's a lot of house in Houston. It's in River Oaks, the area formerly populated by "old money" as long as they were white and Christian. There was a gentleman's agreement in the 1920s that no Jews or people of color were allowed to live there.

Ain't that a bitch....

Not sure where the accusations of fraud come from.

And yeah I know he doesn't take a salary from his church, that his wealth comes from his book sales. But his books are a product of his ministry, which is a non profit. You may not call that fraud but I do.

His royalties would be considered income, i'm sure, right?

to the company, not the individual. At least that is how it usually works. There may be an arrangement of sharing the royalties, but rarely does the author get to keep it all. The whole business of not taking a salary but rather keeping the royalties and thus becoming very wealthy in the process, all the while working for a non profit which is soliciting donations from the public, smacks of shysterism at best and very possibly fraud. Point is if he took a salary, even a good salary, but the royalties went to the ministry, the ministry would likely benefit. And there is also the question of who really paid for the mansion. If the ministry paid for it that might also be income which should be subject to income tax.

Is the book a best seller on any list besides the Xtian best seller list?

he can spend the tax-free income any way he chooses, including on a $10M mansion. I'm sure he's not supposed to but it appears that's what he's done. Or is he getting a multi-million $ annual salary for being a minister? In that case, he's paying taxes.

because apparently some muslims find his stuff relevant to them, and he welcomes them into his church. Now, I don't anything about this guy, and apparently he isn't liked by many on this site, but I was annoyed with the reasoning in the article I read. What a screwed up bunch of people.

http://conservativetribune.com/joel-osteen-muslims/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=TPNNPages&utm_content=2015-06-28

When ushers have to be armed there is something really wrong with that " Church "

We just had several churches burned and a mass slaying in Charleston. One may not like Lakewood Church or its pastor, but they have a right to protect themselves.