BTW, here's a link from a better source, The Guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/jun/11/david-cameron-daughter-behind-pub

Reports: "The story could prove embarrassing for the prime minister, coming on the same day as the government relaunches its £450m troubled families programme."

Kids, you're not old enough to look that up. But for the rest of you, the Sun has relentlessly reported every week-day on a particular, uh, women's issue for at least thirty years--one that American newspapers avoid like it's the 9/11 terrorists on Jack Abramoff's boat.

I doubt any other paper of record can make the same claim, unless one counts Family Circle and Snuffy Smith.

Definitely more of an issue for men who can't live without their daily dose of mammary.

It's an issue about women, and I'm sure many women take issue with it, but I suppose that doesn't make it a women's issue.

But I still wish to think of Page 3 as some of the most dogged reporting that ever hit the news. American newspapers have certainly declined to the Sun's level of reporting, and perhaps below it, but they won't go to Page 3... yet.

But they will.

That's kind of cute.

I can more or less understand parents who are leaving in 2 cars both saying " I thought she was with you". But Special Branch, or whoever provides guards for political protection these days, should be checking where all the party is.

dipsydoodle

I think it is a difference between the use of protective service, special branch or what ever you want to call it, in a private manner, and the public manner where you are in a governmental position.. In a governmental position you have all the protective service the UK can muster (and they do have a good deal about it, and it is also very potent if need arise) but even a Prime Minister is just a human being, and if no specially danger or treat are in place, they can go almost as everyone else around town... Off course it will be a police man, or a civilian from the security system around and a few arraignments that we do not know about..

In Norway (or at least until 22 july 2011) the prime minister, cabinet ministers, even our king and queen could walk around rather as ordinary people - I have talked to both our King and Queen twice in my life, not in a public setting, but just as we walk on each other out in the woods, around a place where both king and queen like to walk (it was pure accident by the way) Our King is a great person, and we managed to talk for more than 20 minutes before they had to go.. The queen was rather on the stiffy side of things - but she was at least polite. When I came down to the more civilized place again, I was put aside by a plain clothed police officer, who rather politely asked me about what I have being going up there.. I politely told them I was just walking up in the woods, and happened to bump into the queen and king.. Who I happened to talk to, for 20 minutes.. He then ask my some other questioning (most of them I guess they know before as they had my license tag from the car!) But i all happened in a very civilized matter, no choppers, no violence to the ground and the rest.. politely, peacefully, and without any violence it was solved peacefully... And I was let om my way, and they wrote a report about the incident - I bet..

And Norway have also being in the special position, that our prime minister, and the rest of the government, for the most part have had an difference between the public act, and the private one.. We have had Prime ministers who used the bus to job, he lived in a private apartment on the "east side" of the river, even though it was a police car outside his apartment, the whole affair was rather low key and even though everyone know he was the prime minister, it was never any necessarily to put him in a whole fleet of cars when he was around.... Our old King Olav V of Norway even took the tram up to "nordmarka" to go cross country with his dog -under the 1973 oil strike, where petrol was rather controlled here in Norway.. When he was asked if he ever was afraid about walking around like this, without a bodyguard he told "why should I be afraid, I have 4 million bodyguard who would protect me".. He scored a few points there I guess .. Both he and his father Haakon the 7 got a few point when they was asked this type of questning, and answered like this.. Our current king and qeen, was untill they was crowned king and queen, able to walk around Oslo as ordinary pepole, going to the movies,going to a theater eat on a restaurant and so one.. Sometimes they even do that today - but now with more security than before.. Of course they do had security with them - but it was at least plain cloth and not intrusive to the rest of the capital.. I guess the idea is, that more low key the security is, the more easy is it to not let anyone know that the Queen and King are around town I guess

But of course, it is a difference between a small kindom in the north of europe - and the office of a great power like UK, or USA and so one... And untill 2011 it was not even consivable to do what ABB did in Norway... That would recoil in our county for a long, long time I fear... And Im pretty sure the security around official buldings - and government persons have risen sharply there after...

Diclotican

he waived cover for Sunday lunch.

dipsydoodle

Maybe - you never know with the royals.P

Diclotican

I like reading your comments and know from past reading you are NOT a native English Speaker. I do NOT have an English major (and many a member of DU have commented on my English, rarely to the good) but I have to make a comment on those two terms.

First "Tram". Tram is easy and hard. It is hard is trying to determine what is meant by the term "Tram". "Tram" is the term used in the United Kingdom for what we in the USA call a "Streetcar". "Streetcar" is believe to be the product of "German English". "English German" is the product of the huge German immigration into the US from 1848 till after 1900. Many Germans settled in cities and when it came time to translate things from German to English, the tendency was to use translating of German combinations NOT whole words.

Streetcar is an excellent example of this. The German word for Trams/Streetcar is "Strassenbahn", which is a combination of the German word "Strassen" (English translation "Street&quot and "Bahn" English translation "Car&quot . Thus in the US what they call "Trams" in the United Kingdom, became known as "Streetcars" in the US.

To make the different words one more degree worse, in the US the term "Tram" is used in the US as a short term for what is called elsewhere an "Aerial Tramway" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerial_tramway

Looking up Norway and Oslo it appears what you are calling a "Tram" is what we in the US call a "Streetcar" not what we in the US call an "aerial tramway" (Or sometimes a "Tram&quot . Thus once you determine the above, you see the correct term in the US is "Streetcar" not "Tram". The hard part is seeing why they is a difference between US and UK English.

Just a comment on the use of the word "Tram" on an American cite. Wikipedia will refer any request in regards to "Streetcars" to its "Trams" cite, so it is a well understood difference between English as spoken in the US and the UK.

One last comment: Do to the different terms used in the United Kingdom and the USA, the term "Light Rail Vehicle" (LRV) was invented in the late 1960s to be used in both countries. The problem with it, many people view the term "LRV" to mean something that goes on its own Right of Way like a regular train, but does NOT mix with regular trains, not on a streets like a Streetcar/Tram. Thus the adoption of the term LRV has NOT completely resolved the problem of using two different terms for the same thing in the United Kingdom and the USA.

Second, "Oil Strike"

The term "Oil Strike" generally means in the USA as someone drilling an oil well and striking oil NOT someone refusing to ship oil. Thus the 1973 "Oil Embargo" is called an "Oil Embargo" in the US (I do NOT know what it is called in the United Kingdom, I suspect the same wording). Sometime it is referred to as the "Oil Crisis" and "Oil Boycott, but NEVER an "Oil Strike".

happyslug

The word Tram, is maybe what you in the US is calling a street car - a sort of train on the road, where you can on a station, pay a little sum, sit down, go to another station, and go out again..

The word Oil Strike was meant to put the word Oil Embargo in the 1973, after the Arab-Israel war, where Israel kind ow beat the crap out of the arab army, and after the arabic nations lost the war - the arabs specially the Saudi-Arabians, decided to punish the west, because of the support of the Israeli cause - to stop, or at least make it difficult for the west to get the oil they absolutely was in need of... The result of that, was that in many nations, petrol products was rationalized, and in that matter, we had a king who decided it would be a smart move to use the street car - or the tram, to travel to Kongseteren, to have is weekendly cross country time, in the woods, for himself.. I guess it was one of the very few times he could be him self, and not the King of Norway - and he was a rather good cross country user too.

But the point here, was to explain, that in some parts of the world, the use of security details to protect government officials - specially ministers and the prime minister in a private manner, is not the same as in the US. In some country the use of security details, in a private matter is recognized as a rude mismanagement of public founds..

Diclotican

US Security around the President is excessive, it is Imperial in nature. With that level of Security of an Emperor, you also end up with an out of touch leader, leaders who are controlled by the people around them, the people who can control who sees the President and what the President actually sees. Best example of this was the 1992 Presidential campaign. George Bush the elder was running for Re-election against Bill Clinton. As part of the campaign Bush wanted to show he was like a normal American and thus went "Shopping". Everything worked out, he followed the footsteps that showed him where he was to go, picked up the things he was to buy and then to the Cashier. The problem was at the Cash Register. It was an electronic scanner system and he commented that he had NEVER seen one. That made the news for the simple reason almost every large store had gone to that type of system over 10 years before. The Footsteps he followed only came up as people looked into his comments (The Footsteps could be explained away as pre-existing, thus deniable), but his comment to the Cashier could NOT be explained away, it showed how isolated he had become as Vice President and then President from 1981 till 1992.

The last President to have direct contact with the public was Harry S Truman. He was noted for going on long walks even while in the White House. They were stories of him out walking his Secret Service detail and they catch up with him, as he was talking to someone he meet on the Street. Eisenhower wanted privacy, thus he preferred to be in Air Force One where no one could get in touch with him even by Phone (He was the last President to actually use a Train for transportation as oppose to a Campaign prop but that was early in his Presidency and saw the sale of the Presidential Train in the late 1950s, sold while he was still President).

I have not heard of any good stories of Kennedy meeting strangers while President, but Lyndon Johnson was known to talk to anyone and stop anywhere to "press the flesh". Here is the story of how he became the owner of his dog "Yuki", notice LBJ's daughter had stopped at a regular gas station to get gasoline:

Yuki was a mixed breed dog found by President Johnson's daughter, Luci Nugent, at a gas station in Texas on Thanksgiving Day in 1966, while on her way to the LBJ Ranch. Luci named the dog "Yuki", which means "snow" in Japanese. At first, Yuki lived with Luci, but while visiting the White House, Yuki won the President's heart and became his faithful companion. On the President's birthday, August 27, 1967, Luci told her father that he could keep Yuki. When President Johnson left office on January 20, 1969, Yuki returned to LBJ Ranch with the President on Air Force One. After Johnson's death in January 1973, Yuki went to live with Luci Johnson Nugent and her family. Yuki died in 1979.
http://www.lbjlib.utexas.edu/johnson/archives.hom/faqs/dog/doghouse.asp

Nixon was a special case, he was known to have gone to an Anti-War demonstration to "debate" with the demonstrators at the same time he was known to be both mechanically challenged (he was known to break even the simplest of things built to make life easier) AND a social introvert. Why he became a Politician people can debate for years and NOT come to a conclusion for he was NEVER a people person.

Like Kennedy I have NOT heard anything about Ford and the public, but Carter was known to like to touch the flesh, his activities since his Presidency clearly shows that. Carter started the Democratic Tradition of Walking down Pennsylvania Avenue on Inauguration day (Followed by Clinton and Obama).

Reagan was easy to isolate by the people around him and he became more and more isolated as his Presidency came to an end (There has been speculation that the increased Security around Reagan, even refusing to go to a public meeting with other leaders of the Western World, was more to prevent the world from seeing the first signs of Alzheimer's then any real concern about Security). Clinton was another people person and known to "Press the Flesh". Bush only wanted his friends around him, thus easily isolated by those same friends.

Now, Since the attempted assassination of Truman in 1950 by Puerto Rican nationalists) and Kennedy's assassination, the trend has been to increase security around the President which has the side affect of further isolating the President. This trend increased under Eisenhower, Nixon and Reagan with only minor reduction under Kennedy, Johnson and Carter.

More on the activities of Puerto Rican nationalists:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rican_Nationalist_Party

Bush's administration adopted "Free Speech" zones, areas away from the President where protesters were isolated to. Thus Bush could never see any protest against what he was doing UNLESS the people around him wanted him to see it. Such "Free Speech" Zones have NOT been used by Obama, but no court have ever ruled them unconstitutional (The First amendment gurantees the right to "Petition" which includes asking the President question he does NOT want to address, peaceful protest is viewed as a method of "Petition" thus protected Free Speech. In public forums the "Free Speech" zones should be Clearly unconstitutional (Through if the activities are on 100% private property permitted) but no court, on appeal, has even ruled that a meeting even on Public land, is an unconstitutional restriction of the Right to Petition in addition to the right to free speech.

Just a comment on how restrictive the Security around the US President has become since the 1940s. It is so restrictive, it is isolating and that makes it bad.

happyslug

Your insight in how things have changed, by the way Secret Service protect the President is insightfully (I refuse to call it is the SS, as it sounds to like Schutzstaffel, the black uniformed Police of the Nazi-Germany, and I found it insulting, from this side of the pound )

It is sad, if no President since Harry Truman have been able to walk on the streets as a commoner, without to much protective service around him.. But then Harry Truman was maybe the last president to be known to stand up to the "Power behind every throne" and win out on it.. As he did when MacArthur tried to intimidate the president in the Korea war - and got fired for it.. (he was given pensions, and all the glory he could hold, but in fact he was fired, both as the commanding general in the Korea war, but also as a active officer in the US armed forces) And maybe one of the last president, who was not afraid of talking plainspoken, to the real powers in the world. Even though it hurt the ones who get hammered.. He was a child of the 1920s and 1930s - and had been the vice-president of FDR.. Even though I doubt he know the full idea about FDRs every move from time to time (He had no idea about the nuclear bomb before he got into office as the president - as FDR decided it was best not for Truman to know about it, if the bomb failed) And had a distastefully attitude about the rich class in the US.. But he was not a friend of the Stalin either - and hardheaded and stubborn acted against the influence of the USSR in the West European theater (he was known to be a man of furious anger, and it sometimes was blowing over, specially because of the "arrogance" Stalin sometimes was showing the few times they appeared together As under the Potsdam conference in 1946... Truman was no push over - and was clearly not the same as FDR had been, something that got Stalin confused many times, because he believed he could play the new american president, the same way he had been playing with FDR, and got a red nose for it Stalin was a shessplayer - where Truman was a elephant in a store full of china.. It never ended good when the two was in the same room But thankfully neither of them had the nuclear weapon available to nuke the other... US had use their nuclear weapons - and Soviet got their, in 1949.. And in 1946, everyone was to tired to start a new war. But Harry Truman was maybe never liked by anyone - but he was respected by some - many others doesn't liked him at all. Mostly because he made a few rules and laws, that specially in the south would make a buzz.. Like the fact that black should have the same right in the army as white (a rule more in the theory, than in reality as it would take years, or decades before black would get the same rights - and duties as a white. - and have maybe even getting more respect as more of his time has been known outside of the government.. He was really an interesting man in many way.. Stubborn - and most of all, born dirt poor, and worked his way up, from poor, to the United States of America - men before him, and most of them after him, was already at least one million dollar rich - many many times over.. It was maybe one of the reasons he was stubborn and not willing to be nice.. And he was also one of the few presidents - who was stubborn and strong willed enough to treated to cut off funding of the Central Intelligence Agency, who on his watch (in 1950) just weeks before the Inter-Korean war, had told pretty public that the Korean Pennsylvania would remain calm and secure.. And just weeks after the North Korean army was marshing south and trying it best to conquering the whole of Korea.. To say that Truman was furious was not to put it to kindly, and he was in the mood to disband the whole CIA, after a fight with the top leaders in CIA.... But that never happend...

The little i know of about Eisenhower, look like a man who had a very hands off on government governance - as long as they did their best - he could do the big things - like playing golf when the monstrous Vietnam War was in its infancy, and taking a nap now and then... But on the other side, when he was President, the "golden age" in the US started - more and more could buy the applications that made life so much easy - like a washing machine (who in the 1950s and 1960s was some of a novelty) and more and more americans could own their own house - buy their own cars, and travel a lot more than they had being doing for decades, maybe in the time of the United States... For americans alike, the future looked bright - and for the war torn Europe (as I have been told by family members who traveled to US in the 1950s and 1960s) the US was an advanced, rich nation, where you could buy almost everything. In most of europe most things was in short supply, or outright rationalized - as most nations in europe needed the hard currency to buy things to repair, and rebuild what was bombed under the war - even though Europe was good underway to be ok by the 1955... In the US you could go into a store and buy everything from a coffee set, to a house.... But Eisenhower was a world war two hero, and had the respect of most people - even the opponent in the Kremlin.. And he was "adored" in West Europa, thanks to the end of the world war - and the Marshall plan where US was giving free, or subsidized loans to the different nations - so they could be able to feed their population, and rebuild far faster than it would have been able to do, if not the Marshall plan had been there... And it also cemented the US as the dominate part in Europe up today (in the form of NATO and so one)

In the modern times, LBJ is maybe one of my "favorite" President - even though he also is a man with a lot of conflicting inner life, and maybe also a person I somehow recognize as a man who have some evil demons inside himself - who he had to control with a iron will. And he was unlucky enough to heritage the Vietnam War - a war he was against - and also wanted a wa to get out of, but he doesn't had the same balls as the late Kennedy, to tell the generals to stuff it.. JFK got famous, because he told the Chief of Staff to stuff it, when ti came to the Cuban Missile Crisis - where the generals wanted a nuclear solution.. And where the President was not in agreement with the generals - and never trusted them.. LBJ is maybe known as a rather unpopular and depressive President - as he was not popular by so many... An unpopular war are never getting a head of state any credit - even when he on the home front was maybe one of the greatest President the US have had.... I think LBJ as a little tragically man, a man who wanted to do the right thing, but always had to fight on many fronts at one time.. And was not able to do the fight against any of the front hard enough... But he was lucky enough to not have the Tea Party, or the Republicans of today to fight against... Then he would have broke totally down, and shot himself in the Oval Office...
The history of about he got his dog is a kind one, and show a man who might be more friendly than we know... But he had a distrust for the humans - I can understand as I have many of the same feelings about others... A dog love you without any reservations, and I guess the dog, was the best medicine the man could be given... You can talk to a dog, you can cry in the fur of a dog, you can get comfort just looking at the eyes on a dog... And a dog will NEVER tell others, what you have told them. Not even to the other dogs...

President Reagan had health problems from the start - he was over 70 year when he was elected - and even then, it was signs that not everything was well with the grand old man.. And after he was shot, it took a long time before he was up to speed on most things. A long period in fact the US was without a president - and the vice president was never really told how bad things was - before he got better and could take the reign again.. Even when it was shown a President who worked from bed - and who often was shown in a hospital window, it was clearly that the man was in very, very bad shape - (even though it was not known then, but the inner circle was absolutely clear about how bad it really was) And after he got well, enough to come back to the White House, he never got back to the "normal" Reagen. Even the First lady, have stated that he never got to the god old Reagan, but was in far worse health than before he got shot.. For a man who was 70 year when he got elected, the strain of being a President would be hard to bear, for far younger men than him.. But thanks to good advisor's (or sort of good advisor's) and a press who more or less treated the man with royal respect, he got by for 8 year - got elected twice, and could go down the sunset, as a grand old man, who had doing the world a great service - by working with the USSR to put a lot of the nuclear weapons out of commission (he was contriction to everyones belief, scared to hell about the possibility of a nuclear exchange in private - and the election of mr Gorbatsjev - and the possibility to get rid of nuclear weapons was absolutely something he could, and would jump on if possible - a lot of the nuclear weapons the US had (and USSR) was also starting to getting old - and either they had to be replaced, or get rid of - he choose to get rid of them - and the same did USSR thankfully) Even when he in public was a cold war soldiers as everyone else on the right - and had a economical policy, and a distastefully attitude about everyone in the US, who was not rich/or famous, that rightfully did han to some of a enemy in many eyes.. Or at least, an old, senile man who acted out the role of his life.. After all, he was a Actor - who had made some middle pictures over the years...

It is sad when security have to be so tight, that the presidents of a democratic Republic, have to be shielded from the people he/she is elected to govern . And it is also sad that they do not know about how "real people" live, or how bad things are, because the advisor's around the President wont, or is not able to tell it properly... Everyone should be able to contact with their President - to tell him how things really are. Not that everything is Okay, because the President are told so... But it looks like the US president live in a cocoon, where he is not always able to smell the roses - or to be aware about how things really is in the US.. That be democratic presidents, or republicans ones.. And the last couple of republican presidents - specially the last one, looks to doesn't care if millions of americans is in disappear.. Like when GWB had a celebration with McCain - when ten of thousands of Peopole in New Orleans was drowning, or had to flee for their life because of the flooding from the storm Catarina.. And that was just one of the many cases where GWB was just not out of touch, but way out of reality with the facts outside his own little bubble..

And that is maybe one of the reasons, the King and Queen in Norway, have not been in a bubble - even though they might live in a bubble where they are protected in a way no other is, they still have contact with the commoners they are kings and queens over.. It have being a policy going all the back 100 year when Haakon the 7 was elected King (by a vote of 95 percent, of the people eligible to vote in 1905), where the King could be contacted - and had a close contact with the people - regardless of the difference between a King and the population in Norway - who in 1905 was far more difference than the case is today!.. But the fact that the new Royals in Norway was able to settle down, and to make a future for the royal line, lasted more than 100 year show that the idea of the Norwegian royal house was a smart move. And that Haakon the 7 maybe was a greater politician than most people wanted to believe when he came to Norway.. And it was not that sure that Norway should remain a kingdom even after the election of him and his house - in fact the decades of 1905 to 1945 (where 5 he was in london UK as Norway was occupied by the germans) was a turbulent political one, where the king had to sit up on top of a edge of sharp knifes - the political strife in the Parliament, and outside was rather unpleasant, and I think he was somewhat worried about how things could end if he was falling down on one side or another.. And the fact, that a close family member, the Tsar of Imperial Russia was killed by the red... And Norway had a lot of working class people who was looking to USSR for ideas about how things should be in the future - But thankfully, it never ended in that - and in 1933 the Labour Party (AP) got into the Parliament - as the governing party, and slowly the future turned to what we have today... After WW2 it was more important to build up what was lost, than to start all over again, as it was 1940, and the world war had never happened...

Diclotican

just wanted to say I enjoyed reading your take on our history. I especially like what you said about dogs.

MountainMama

Thank you - History have been some of a hobby for me, as long as I could read that is. And sometimes I remember it to.. But it is many things I do not know about - yet at least

And yes, dogs can be our absolutely best friends - and loyal - something that LBJ maybe was in need of, not many of his inner circle was trustworthy and when the Vietnam War was going from bad to worse, he got less and less friends.. And he repay them with more distrust than they might deserved...

Diclotican

I did get a wave from Princess Anne once when she pulled up beside me at traffic lights in London.

Me in my Mini and her in a chauffered Rolls Royce.

Swagman

It was not in a park, it was in the woods .. But yes, it was both a honour, and a experience to be able to talk directly to the King and Queen in a setting where they was them self, and I was just me.. And I guess I got more out of it, than they did But that is the way of beeing a king and Queen I guess... But for the most part you seldom, never know when they are out walking - they go around in a way that you have to look at them, to discover that they are indeed the King and Queen... And I like it that way - that they are able to have a private life, or a sort of it. For the most part they are in the public spot light 24/7, so I guess they like the few times they could be them self, out of sight.. And I guess everyone around is discreete enough to not telling everyone that the royals are out too.. Our Crown Prince/Princess is in fact, for the most part driving their own cars, out of official office...

Cool, it is nice to discover that they are just humans them too - and Princess Anne looks like one of the more down to earth of the royality in the UK.. He even have been in the armed forces if Im not wrong?.. And I guess she liked the Mini, she had a few of them when she was young, so I guess she waved to you, for old times And I also guess, she would rather drive a brand new Mini Coper, than sitting in the back seat of a Rolls Royce...

Diclotican

"Afterwards the PM went home in a car flanked by bodyguards, thinking Nancy was with Sam and their other children in a second vehicle. "

With a few dissident Republicans still around in Northern Ireland, and some possibility of an extremist jihad attempt still here, I'd say, some form of basic protection for him seems justified. They may well be just attached to him, and the rest of the family goes around as normal when he's not there, but you'd think they'd be keeping an eye on them when with him.

surprised if the Royal Family got more protection than the Govt Leaders.

It is obvious that the Brit. Secret Service is unfit.

It boggles the mind...

a nunber of us, 11 all told, to a fishing pond to give his b-in-law's m-in-law the experience of fishing, she had never done it, and some how in the jangle of cars the eldest son, 11years, was left at home. It happens no major story here. Just something for their daughter to bring up when she gets older.

The pub incident was some time ago, but it appears the Murdoch press have run several stories against Cameron the last week or two.

Is someone in the UK following this more closely?

and the pub incident was yesterday - Sunday.

Posted for clarity.

Original article I read had him testifying "today"; current one says this week. Here is the AP version of the story. If you use the "Sun", you take your chances.

He's appearing this week : not today which was Brown and Osbourne.

stay on after her family has left to start really belting them back.

Oh, shit.

... And, on the public expense-a/c (over and above the public salary), one has to assume.

Let's hope someone's keeping the nuke-trigger codes safe, at least.

And, no, this is not at all a Churchillian environment.