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DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 02:17 PM Jul 2016

Ryan Bundy Says He's ‘Idiot’ Sovereign Citizen Not Subject To Federal Law

Source: Talking Points Memo

In a baffling series of court motions filed Thursday, one of the men who led a 41-day occupation earlier this year of the Malheur Wildlife Refuge in Oregon declared himself a sovereign citizen free from the bounds of federal laws.

Ryan Bundy claimed that he was a “idiot of the ‘Legal Society’” in documents filed to U.S. District Court Judge Anna Brown, as Oregon Public Broadcasting reported.

“I, ryan c, man, am an idiot of the ‘Legal Society’; and; am an idiot (layman, outsider) of the ‘Bar Association’; and; i am incompetent; and; am not required by any law to be competent,” Bundy wrote.


Along with his brother Ammon and some two dozen others, Bundy faces felony conspiracy charges for illegally occupying the wildlife refuge in remote eastern Oregon to protest federal land ownership. Ryan Bundy is representing himself in the case.

-snip-

Read more: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ryan-bundy-declares-self-idiot-sovereign-citizen
62 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Ryan Bundy Says He's ‘Idiot’ Sovereign Citizen Not Subject To Federal Law (Original Post) DonViejo Jul 2016 OP
Well he got part of it right Va Lefty Jul 2016 #1
No kidding. 47of74 Jul 2016 #49
He does display a degree of personal insight. 63splitwindow Jul 2016 #2
I'm betting cheapdate Jul 2016 #3
The court does not have to declare Nevada part of the United States csziggy Jul 2016 #37
Yes, clearly. cheapdate Jul 2016 #39
Some of these idiots claim they only have allegiance to their state csziggy Jul 2016 #43
True enough, cheapdate Jul 2016 #62
Fine. LOCK HIM UP! Hulk Jul 2016 #4
Ah sovereign citizen lunacy whatthehey Jul 2016 #5
LEVICORPUS! nt longship Jul 2016 #27
I have a copy of the constitution at the ready on my phone. ronnie624 Jul 2016 #57
is he trying for an insanity defense? niyad Jul 2016 #6
He's trying for an idiocy defense. Frank Cannon Jul 2016 #9
He's trying to say he can't be prosecuted jmowreader Jul 2016 #18
Superman prison? Frank Cannon Jul 2016 #23
Damn autocorrect jmowreader Jul 2016 #24
Ever see the video of the squeaky-voiced sovereign citizen girl at a traffic stop? Sand Rat Expat Jul 2016 #51
You're not talking Jenna the Sovereign Citizen, are you? jmowreader Jul 2016 #53
No, I haven't seen that one though! Gonna watch it now. Sand Rat Expat Jul 2016 #58
Ah yes, the Article 4 Free Inhabitant jmowreader Jul 2016 #59
Another dumbass millenial lancer78 Jul 2016 #61
Well he's trying for a 2500 year old distinction that disappeared centuries ago whatthehey Jul 2016 #29
Fascinating info! uawchild Jul 2016 #35
Hit the nail on the head. Bundy actually used the word The Second Stone Jul 2016 #48
Pleads insanity and hopes for leniency... good luck with that. nt procon Jul 2016 #7
He is very typical of GOPers, they are all insane when it comes time to reason stuff out. Rex Jul 2016 #8
Souvenir citizen bullshit SwankyXomb Jul 2016 #10
Good luck to him on that defense because I suspect all it will earn him is a longer prison sentence. cstanleytech Jul 2016 #16
'Souvenir'..... louis-t Jul 2016 #32
I know it's auto correct but I like "Souvenir citizen" csziggy Jul 2016 #38
No auto correct, I do that on purpose SwankyXomb Jul 2016 #45
Well done! nt csziggy Jul 2016 #46
"A man who is his own attorney has a fool for a client." Initech Jul 2016 #11
Can we just declare that we agree he is a "sovereign citizen"... anoNY42 Jul 2016 #12
But wants to use FEDERAL land TexasBushwhacker Jul 2016 #15
Good luck with that, Mr. Bundy. Eugene Jul 2016 #13
He wants internet access jmowreader Jul 2016 #20
And there are more of these losers Wellstone ruled Jul 2016 #14
It's not a religion djg21 Jul 2016 #50
The balk of these people here are related or Wellstone ruled Jul 2016 #52
the sovereign citizens are nothing more than low IQ grifters. Javaman Jul 2016 #17
Is he trying to get sentenced to a mental institution? WhiteTara Jul 2016 #19
Nope. He's trying to have all the charges against him dismissed. jmowreader Jul 2016 #54
I think he may end up in a mental institution before WhiteTara Jul 2016 #55
Thank St. Ronnie for them not having one to put him in jmowreader Jul 2016 #60
If he is a sovereign citizen he has tried to occupy parts of the US Angry Dragon Jul 2016 #21
Sovereign citizen still doesnt give one the right... Beartracks Jul 2016 #22
They refuse the sovereignty of the government jmowreader Jul 2016 #25
They can refuse all they want. The US does not recognize anything within its borders as a sovereign. Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2016 #26
Sovereign citizens being owned, a half hour of dumb-fuckery. longship Jul 2016 #28
I bet those people lived to do it again IronLionZion Jul 2016 #30
Ah jeez, so Lyin and Ammo Bundy are free louis-t Jul 2016 #31
Bring him out past US territorial waters PrideofJefferson Jul 2016 #33
Excellent Idea tikka Jul 2016 #42
Incompetence is a defense when you have no defense. The #BundyTeaParty L. Coyote Jul 2016 #34
The first step toward recovery is admitting you have a problem...... yellowcanine Jul 2016 #36
So he must be an illegal immigrant from Idiotistan. keithbvadu2 Jul 2016 #40
Well he's half right He is an idiot but he is still subject to Federal Law Monk06 Jul 2016 #41
TPM left out the best part. The Idiot wants $100M to stand trial or $1M to act as his own judge. Eugene Jul 2016 #44
Pay him in Idiotbucks. keithbvadu2 Jul 2016 #47
Anytime I hear someone call themselves a "Sovereign Citizen..." MrScorpio Jul 2016 #56

cheapdate

(3,811 posts)
3. I'm betting
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 02:24 PM
Jul 2016

the court declares that Nevada is part of the United States, he is subject to US laws, and he is competent to stand trial.

csziggy

(34,141 posts)
37. The court does not have to declare Nevada part of the United States
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 07:24 PM
Jul 2016

Nevada's Constitution does that:

Sec:?2.??Purpose of government; paramount allegiance to United States.??All political power is inherent in the people[.] Government is instituted for the protection, security and benefit of the people; and they have the right to alter or reform the same whenever the public good may require it. But the Paramount Allegiance of every citizen is due to the Federal Government in the exercise of all its Constitutional powers as the same have been or may be defined by the Supreme Court of the United States; and no power exists in the people of this or any other State of the Federal Union to dissolve their connection therewith or perform any act tending to impair[,] subvert, or resist the Supreme Authority of the government of the United States. The Constitution of the United States confers full power on the Federal Government to maintain and Perpetuate its existance [existence], and whensoever any portion of the States, or people thereof attempt to secede from the Federal Union, or forcibly resist the Execution of its laws, the Federal Government may, by warrant of the Constitution, employ armed force in compelling obedience to its Authority.
https://www.leg.state.nv.us/const/nvconst.html#Art1


Emphasis added by me.

Ryan Bundy is absolutely correct that he is an idiot. He's made claims for years that are disproved by the constitution of the state in which he lives.

cheapdate

(3,811 posts)
39. Yes, clearly.
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 07:32 PM
Jul 2016

The U.S. constitution and its laws apply to all people inside the territorial boundaries of the United States.

How one feels about that (Bundy) doesn't matter at all.

csziggy

(34,141 posts)
43. Some of these idiots claim they only have allegiance to their state
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 07:51 PM
Jul 2016

But not to the United States government.

Well, given the Nevada Constitution, anyone inside of Nevada cannot make that claim.

cheapdate

(3,811 posts)
62. True enough,
Sat Jul 30, 2016, 11:10 PM
Jul 2016

but the U.S. Constitution is the supreme law of the land and nothing in any state constitution has any bearing on that whatsoever.

The Supremacy Clause of the United States Constitution (Article VI, Clause 2):

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing [sic] in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.


A cornerstone of the whole American political structure.

Bundys are full of shit.
 

Hulk

(6,699 posts)
4. Fine. LOCK HIM UP!
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 02:25 PM
Jul 2016

And throw away the key. He can claim to be a Martian, for all I care. Fook him!

whatthehey

(3,660 posts)
5. Ah sovereign citizen lunacy
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 02:26 PM
Jul 2016

They are full of these supposedly magical phrases that they think act as get out of jail cards. However he is using an original definition of idiot accurately to be honest.

ronnie624

(5,764 posts)
57. I have a copy of the constitution at the ready on my phone.
Sat Jul 30, 2016, 12:26 PM
Jul 2016

I love showing libertarians the 16th amendment when they start yammering about how income tax is unconstitutional.

Frank Cannon

(7,570 posts)
9. He's trying for an idiocy defense.
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 02:35 PM
Jul 2016

He's trying to say that he's too stupid to know that all the stuff he was doing is illegal.

jmowreader

(50,604 posts)
18. He's trying to say he can't be prosecuted
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 03:04 PM
Jul 2016

Your sovereign citizen (a term they're trying to get away from) believes no law applies to him.

I believe superman prison should be used sparingly if at all, but also believe Ryan Bundy can only be sent there.

Frank Cannon

(7,570 posts)
23. Superman prison?
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 03:40 PM
Jul 2016

Is that where they have kryptonite bars? Just kidding. Yes, I agree he belongs in jail, for a long time.

jmowreader

(50,604 posts)
24. Damn autocorrect
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 03:48 PM
Jul 2016

Prison is a university for criminals, and the sovereign citizens use it to train other people in how to be sovereign citizens.

Sovereign citizens claim "sovereign citizen" is a contradiction in terms, like "smart Trump voter." They claim "sovereign" means King and "citizen" means slave so "sovereign citizen" means "King slave." I fucking despise sovereign citizens.

Sand Rat Expat

(290 posts)
51. Ever see the video of the squeaky-voiced sovereign citizen girl at a traffic stop?
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 11:12 PM
Jul 2016

Oh, it was comedy gold. I could watch it over and over again.

jmowreader

(50,604 posts)
53. You're not talking Jenna the Sovereign Citizen, are you?
Sat Jul 30, 2016, 12:01 AM
Jul 2016

"I'll pull over for $300,000." And then the cops did stop her, and she was pulled over for DUI.

Sand Rat Expat

(290 posts)
58. No, I haven't seen that one though! Gonna watch it now.
Sat Jul 30, 2016, 01:01 PM
Jul 2016

This is the one I'm referring to:



Like I said, comedy gold.

jmowreader

(50,604 posts)
59. Ah yes, the Article 4 Free Inhabitant
Sat Jul 30, 2016, 02:06 PM
Jul 2016

Not realizing of course...

(1) the Articles of Confederation were turned off the day the Constitution was turned on

(2) under the AoC all men are equal but some men are more equal than others

(3) "free inhabitant" means you are not:
A) in jail
B) poor
C) someone else's property
D) an indentured servant
E) in a state of penisless
F) not a landowner

and

(4) Article 4 is what is now the Privileges and Immunities clause of the Constitution, not a license to enjoy all the liberties America offers without fulfilling any of your responsibilities. The only difference between the two: the P&I clause doesn't just apply to the rich.

Unfortunately, I've seen it. That cop has the patience of a saint.

 

lancer78

(1,495 posts)
61. Another dumbass millenial
Sat Jul 30, 2016, 02:33 PM
Jul 2016

Read a bunch of crap on the internet, and thought that it applied to her. The deputy is correct in saying "Then we would just have anarchy" if this "free inhabitant BS was for real.

whatthehey

(3,660 posts)
29. Well he's trying for a 2500 year old distinction that disappeared centuries ago
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 04:08 PM
Jul 2016

And even 2500 years ago still didn't mean you were immune from laws, just that you didn't engage in their civic origin. In the age of Athenian pure democracy (well for male property owners of native birth at least) an idiot was a person who was not involved with any business of the various assemblies and juries (and juries were hundreds strong) by choice. This was very unusual behavior looked upon with suspicion but wasn't illegal per se. It didn't however mean they could not be punished by those who were involved.

But since about the 15th Century CE nobody has actually used it in that sense except pedantic classicists like me in discussions like this, and apparently sovereign citizen...well...idiots. The only normal usage since the late Middle Ages has been for mental incompetents.

 

The Second Stone

(2,900 posts)
48. Hit the nail on the head. Bundy actually used the word
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 09:46 PM
Jul 2016

for its intended origin. But the Athenian idiots still had to obey the laws.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
8. He is very typical of GOPers, they are all insane when it comes time to reason stuff out.
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 02:33 PM
Jul 2016

He could be writing a mandate for the GOP, they are all incompetent idiots.

SwankyXomb

(2,030 posts)
10. Souvenir citizen bullshit
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 02:36 PM
Jul 2016

I think a few months in a federal psychiatric hospital while his competency is decided would fix that.

SwankyXomb

(2,030 posts)
45. No auto correct, I do that on purpose
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 08:47 PM
Jul 2016

Dolts like that deserved to be mocked, loudly and frequently.

Eugene

(61,974 posts)
13. Good luck with that, Mr. Bundy.
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 02:46 PM
Jul 2016

Refuses at acknowledge the rule of Federal law.
Caught in an escape attempt.

Wants additional privileges in order to assist in his own defense?
Sure. What can possibly happen with that?

He's got the "idiot" part right. Devoid of a clue otherwise.

jmowreader

(50,604 posts)
20. He wants internet access
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 03:08 PM
Jul 2016

If he gets it, he will use it to rally other traitor citizens to kill cops etc. until he is set free. No, Ryan, we'll give you a Black's Law Dictionary and, because you believe you're going to be tried in admiralty court, a copy of Rocks and Shoals.

 

Wellstone ruled

(34,661 posts)
14. And there are more of these losers
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 02:52 PM
Jul 2016

hanging around in Southern Utah and here in Nevada. All belonging to the same fake Religion.

 

djg21

(1,803 posts)
50. It's not a religion
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 11:10 PM
Jul 2016

It's an anti-government movement which arose out of the white supremacist movement, and now has many black adherents too. The Baton Rouge shooter was a sovereign citizen.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/sovereign-citizens-movement

jmowreader

(50,604 posts)
54. Nope. He's trying to have all the charges against him dismissed.
Sat Jul 30, 2016, 12:07 AM
Jul 2016

SC dogma says if you say certain phrases in exactly the right way, the courts will decide it's not legal to prosecute you and just let you walk right out the door. If you look at the filing he made that's in the OP you'll see the words "all rights reserved." Sovereign citizens believe you can copyright your name (you cannot - the copyright office has a list of things that can't be copyrighted and names are on it) then sue the courts for billions of dollars if they put your name on any legal paperwork.

jmowreader

(50,604 posts)
60. Thank St. Ronnie for them not having one to put him in
Sat Jul 30, 2016, 02:14 PM
Jul 2016

Idaho used to have a state insane asylum (not a "mental hospital" - this joint was One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest-level bad) at Orofino. The mental health care deforms pushed by Reagan caused the state to discharge all the patients and convert it to a medium security prison. Within a year of reopening as a prison, most of the patients who hadn't killed themselves had returned.

Angry Dragon

(36,693 posts)
21. If he is a sovereign citizen he has tried to occupy parts of the US
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 03:27 PM
Jul 2016

that is an invasion so he can be held as a invader

Beartracks

(12,847 posts)
22. Sovereign citizen still doesnt give one the right...
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 03:36 PM
Jul 2016

... to steal another sovereign entity's land.

Duh.

============

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,089 posts)
26. They can refuse all they want. The US does not recognize anything within its borders as a sovereign.
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 03:59 PM
Jul 2016

Guess who wins?

louis-t

(23,321 posts)
31. Ah jeez, so Lyin and Ammo Bundy are free
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 04:26 PM
Jul 2016

from the bounds of federal law? If I say I'm Sasquatch, does that make it true?

tikka

(762 posts)
42. Excellent Idea
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 07:51 PM
Jul 2016

It would be worth it for the government to supply little one man boats for anybody that claims to be a sovereign citizen, drop them off, and tell them they're on their own.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
34. Incompetence is a defense when you have no defense. The #BundyTeaParty
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 05:11 PM
Jul 2016

isn't much of a party now that they are in jail.

Monk06

(7,675 posts)
41. Well he's half right He is an idiot but he is still subject to Federal Law
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 07:48 PM
Jul 2016

His escape attempt and now this deranged shit coming out of his festering cake hole is going to get him the maximum sentence and no parole

I wonder what Ammon has up his sleave He is only marginally smarter than his brain damaged brother

Eugene

(61,974 posts)
44. TPM left out the best part. The Idiot wants $100M to stand trial or $1M to act as his own judge.
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 08:39 PM
Jul 2016
Ryan Bundy Declares Himself An 'Idiot' Not Subject To US Courts (Oregon Public Broadcasting)

http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/ryan-bundy-incompetent-subject-federal-law/#.V5q1ixvnESk.twitter

Source: Raw Story

‘I am an idiot’: Ryan Bundy demands $100 million to stand trial — or $1 million to serve as own judge

TRAVIS GETTYS
29 JUL 2016 AT 14:09 ET

Ryan Bundy, who led the armed Oregon occupation with his brother, asked the federal government to pay him at least $1 million to stand trial.

The 44-year-old Bundy, who is serving as his own attorney, filed court documents this week using “sovereign citizen” jargon to the government had no authority over him and said he would not accept the role of defendant unless he was handsomely rewarded, reported Oregon Public Broadcasting.

“I, ryan c, man, am an idiot of the ‘Legal Society’; and; am an idiot (layman, outsider) of the ‘Bar Association’; and; i am incompetent; and; am not required by any law to be competent,” Bundy wrote in the motion.

Bundy, who authorities say plotted an escape attempt earlier this month from the Multnomah County Detention Center, accused U.S. District Court Judge Anna Brown of perjury and demanded up to $100 million to serve as a defendant in the Malheur National Wildlife Reserve case.

[font size=1]-snip-[/font]


Read more: https://www.rawstory.com/2016/07/i-am-an-idiot-ryan-bundy-demands-100-million-to-stand-trial-or-1-million-to-serve-as-own-judge/

keithbvadu2

(37,066 posts)
47. Pay him in Idiotbucks.
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 09:39 PM
Jul 2016

Or coupons good for play at Trump's golf courses.

Trump took charity write offs for games given away.

MrScorpio

(73,631 posts)
56. Anytime I hear someone call themselves a "Sovereign Citizen..."
Sat Jul 30, 2016, 12:13 PM
Jul 2016

I pretty much expect them to used that as an excuse to be an asshole.

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