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dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts) Thu Jun 28, 2012, 05:56 AM Jun 2012

'Sex offender' extradition halted

Source: BBC News

The High Court in London has blocked a US government attempt to extradite a man accused of child sex.

Shawn Sullivan, 43, won his appeal against extradition after US authorities refused to pledge he would not be placed on a controversial sex offenders treatment programme.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18625225

From last September :

U.S. most wanted paedophile Shawn Sullivan in London.

A CONVICTED paedophile who is one of America’s most wanted criminals is living secretly in London.

The Sun tracked down vile Shawn Sullivan and watched as he went for an hour-long bike ride.

American Sullivan, 42, has been wanted in the US since 1994 for allegedly molesting two 11-year-old girls and unlawful sex with a girl of 14.

Authorities in Minnesota want him extradited to face charges. If found guilty, he could face 25 years in jail on each count.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3835174/US-most-wanted-paedophile-Shawn-Sullivan-in-London.html

26 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

'Sex offender' extradition halted (Original Post) dipsydoodle Jun 2012 OP

What program are they talking about? Live and Learn Jun 2012 #1

Are you saying dipsydoodle Jun 2012 #2

Not at all. Live and Learn Jun 2012 #3

Well I can only assume dipsydoodle Jun 2012 #4

Exactly. Wondering if anyone knows about it. nt Live and Learn Jun 2012 #5

'civil commitment' - One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest - Girl, Interrupted reorg Jun 2012 #9

This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jun 2012 #6

Thanks for the clarification. Live and Learn Jun 2012 #7

This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jun 2012 #10

Thanks again. nt Live and Learn Jun 2012 #12

Isnt the other reason they are opposing the extradition because cstanleytech Jun 2012 #19

This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jun 2012 #21

It is n/t clang1 Jun 2012 #25

If the UK prefers having its children raped geek tragedy Jun 2012 #8

Sounds like they just like due process of law to me. nt Live and Learn Jun 2012 #11

This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jun 2012 #13

the pedophile hysteria is probably as widespread in Europe as it is in the US reorg Jun 2012 #14

The UK is a signatory to the European Convention on Human Rights. Spider Jerusalem Jun 2012 #15

I don't understand reorg Jun 2012 #17

Under the ECHR and British law it isn't legal detention. Spider Jerusalem Jun 2012 #18

This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jun 2012 #22

The UK feels a quaint obligation to follow laws based on the treaties they've signed... 14thColony Jun 2012 #16

What an idiotic statement. Comrade Grumpy Jun 2012 #24

BULLSHIT INSULT clang1 Jun 2012 #26

This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jun 2012 #20

Tyranny clang1 Jun 2012 #23

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)

1. What program are they talking about?

Reply to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Thu Jun 28, 2012, 06:00 AM

Jun 2012

"His lawyers argued he might be placed on the programme without a trial and with no hope of release."

dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)

2. Are you saying

Reply to Live and Learn (Reply #1)

Thu Jun 28, 2012, 06:06 AM

Jun 2012

there are no circumstances in the USA that anyone can be held without trial for an indefinite period ?

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)

3. Not at all.

Reply to dipsydoodle (Reply #2)

Thu Jun 28, 2012, 06:10 AM

Jun 2012

They seem to be referring to some sex offender program that one can be mandated to attend before a trial. I have never heard of such a thing although I wouldn't doubt it these days. Just wondered what they were referring to.

dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)

4. Well I can only assume

Reply to Live and Learn (Reply #3)

Thu Jun 28, 2012, 06:21 AM

Jun 2012

that if "US authorities refused to pledge he would not be placed on a controversial sex offenders treatment programme." then such a program must exist.

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)

5. Exactly. Wondering if anyone knows about it. nt

Reply to dipsydoodle (Reply #4)

Thu Jun 28, 2012, 06:28 AM

Jun 2012

reorg

(3,317 posts)

9. 'civil commitment' - One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest - Girl, Interrupted

Reply to Live and Learn (Reply #5)

Thu Jun 28, 2012, 06:58 AM

Jun 2012

At a High Court hearing on Wednesday in London, Sullivan’s lawyers said that their client would be willing to return to face trial in the United States if he is given assurance that he will not be subjected to ‘civil commitment’ proceedings. Civil commitment in the US means that the accused can be jailed indefinitely for as long as they’re considered a threat to society.

Ben Brandon, who is representing Sullivan, said, “Mr Sullivan says he will return to face trial in Minnesota but he is concerned about the prospect that, acquitted or convicted, he will be incarcerated for the rest of his natural life which is obviously a clear and flagrant breach of his human rights.”

Brandon added that the number of sex offenders found guilty and incarcerated has grown by 85 percent in Minnesota since 2003 when a prisoner who was released went on to rape and murder another woman.

“This process could happen even if he is not found guilty as it is a civil hearing,” said Brandon. “We say the statistics and evidence show there is the extreme likelihood that if committed this appellant will die in custody.”

Read more: http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Americas-most-wanted-pedophile-Shawn-Sullivan-fights-extradition-from-Britain-to-US-149036645.html#ixzz1z5FOueI3

Involuntary commitment or civil commitment is a legal process through which an individual with symptoms of severe mental illness is court-ordered into treatment in a hospital (inpatient) or in the community (outpatient).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary_commitment#Germany

Response to Live and Learn (Reply #1)

bupkus This message was self-deleted by its author.

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)

7. Thanks for the clarification.

Reply to bupkus (Reply #6)

Thu Jun 28, 2012, 06:53 AM

Jun 2012

Sorry to make you do the research.

Response to Live and Learn (Reply #7)

bupkus This message was self-deleted by its author.

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)

12. Thanks again. nt

Reply to bupkus (Reply #10)

Thu Jun 28, 2012, 07:04 AM

Jun 2012

cstanleytech

(26,367 posts)

19. Isnt the other reason they are opposing the extradition because

Reply to bupkus (Reply #6)

Thu Jun 28, 2012, 08:28 AM

Jun 2012

no one has been released from the program in decades which if true means its in essecne a "for life" sentence without trial.

Response to cstanleytech (Reply #19)

bupkus This message was self-deleted by its author.

clang1

(884 posts)

25. It is n/t

Reply to cstanleytech (Reply #19)

Thu Jun 28, 2012, 01:38 PM

Jun 2012

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)

8. If the UK prefers having its children raped

Reply to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Thu Jun 28, 2012, 06:58 AM

Jun 2012

to extraditing this miscreant, their choice. He's not a threat to anyone here now.

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)

11. Sounds like they just like due process of law to me. nt

Reply to geek tragedy (Reply #8)

Thu Jun 28, 2012, 07:03 AM

Jun 2012

Response to geek tragedy (Reply #8)

bupkus This message was self-deleted by its author.

reorg

(3,317 posts)

14. the pedophile hysteria is probably as widespread in Europe as it is in the US

Reply to geek tragedy (Reply #8)

Thu Jun 28, 2012, 07:45 AM

Jun 2012

but life imprisonment without eligibility for parole is considered a violation of

THE EUROPEAN CONVENTION ON HUMAN RIGHTS

ARTICLE 3

No one shall be subjected to torture or to inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

http://www.hri.org/docs/ECHR50.html

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)

15. The UK is a signatory to the European Convention on Human Rights.

Reply to geek tragedy (Reply #8)

Thu Jun 28, 2012, 07:52 AM

Jun 2012

The ruling in this case is under section 5.1:

Article 5 – Right to liberty and security'

1. Everyone has the right to liberty and security of person. No one shall be deprived of his liberty save in the following cases and in accordance with a procedure prescribed by law:

a. the lawful detention of a person after conviction by a competent court;
b. the lawful arrest or detention of a person for non-compliance with the lawful order of a court or in order to secure the fulfilment of any obligation prescribed by law;
c. the lawful arrest or detention of a person effected for the purpose of bringing him before the competent legal authority on reasonable suspicion of having committed an offence or when it is reasonably considered necessary to prevent his committing an offence or fleeing after having done so;
d. the detention of a minor by lawful order for the purpose of educational supervision or his lawful detention for the purpose of bringing him before the competent legal authority;
e. the lawful detention of persons for the prevention of the spreading of infectious diseases, of persons of unsound mind, alcoholics or drug addicts or vagrants;
f. the lawful arrest or detention of a person to prevent his effecting an unauthorised entry into the country or of a person against whom action is being taken with a view to deportation or extradition.

"Civil commitment" is pretty clearly not legal grounds for detention and if there's a serious question about whether he'd be subject to it in the US then the UK court is entirely correct, under British law, to deny the extradition.

reorg

(3,317 posts)

17. I don't understand

Reply to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #15)

Thu Jun 28, 2012, 08:06 AM

Jun 2012

What do you mean by "Civil commitment is pretty clearly not legal grounds for detention" when it appears to be lawful in Minnesota to be "civilly committed by the courts and placed in sex offender treatment for an indeterminate period of time" as cited in post #6?

Perhaps my problem is that I don't understand what "civil court" means in this instance. Does somebody have to sue so as to "civilly commit" the sex offender?

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)

18. Under the ECHR and British law it isn't legal detention.

Reply to reorg (Reply #17)

Thu Jun 28, 2012, 08:12 AM

Jun 2012

Whether it happens to be legal in Minnesota is irrelevant to the discussion. "conviction by a competent court" is not the same thing as "indefinite commitment by a civil court".

Response to reorg (Reply #17)

bupkus This message was self-deleted by its author.

14thColony

(1,515 posts)

16. The UK feels a quaint obligation to follow laws based on the treaties they've signed...

Reply to geek tragedy (Reply #8)

Thu Jun 28, 2012, 08:02 AM

Jun 2012

...regardless of the public's visceral reaction to a specific heinous case. How 20th century of them.

Comrade Grumpy

(13,184 posts)

24. What an idiotic statement.

Reply to geek tragedy (Reply #8)

Thu Jun 28, 2012, 01:20 PM

Jun 2012

clang1

(884 posts)

26. BULLSHIT INSULT

Reply to geek tragedy (Reply #8)

Thu Jun 28, 2012, 01:38 PM

Jun 2012

YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND FREEDOM OR DEMOCRACY. BECAUSE IF YOU TRULY DID, YOU WOULD NOT HAVE SAID WHAT YOU SAID. PERIOD.
UNDERSTAND WHY THIS IS.

ALL OF YOU, THAT FEEL THIS WAY, NEED LESSONS IN AMERICAN CIVICS AND VALUES. ALL OF YOU. YOU FORGET WHAT DEMOCRACY IS. AND MORE THAN THAT AS I SEE IT.

Recognize the Tyranny for what it is. CALL IT THAT. BECAUSE IT IS THE TRUTH.

Meanwhile....The Progression continues.....

Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)

bupkus This message was self-deleted by its author.

clang1

(884 posts)

23. Tyranny

Reply to dipsydoodle (Original post)

Thu Jun 28, 2012, 12:58 PM

Jun 2012

Last edited Thu Jun 28, 2012, 02:06 PM - Edit history (3)

First reprogramming for being a sex offender, NEXT reprogramming for HOW You think as a Citizen. Indefinite Detention, without even a conviction?

TYRANNY.

Call it what it is. NOTHING ELSE MATTERS IN THIS STORY.

UNDERSTAND: THAT REGARDLESS OF ANY OF THE REASONS GIVEN FOR IT...TYRANNY IS, WHAT IT IS. AND THIS ISSUE AFFECTS EVERYONE. AND IT IS TYRANNY. PEOPLE FAIL TO UNDERSTAND HISTORY AND WHY WE ARE AMERICANS AND NONE OF THIS IS AMERICAN. ALL OF IT, IS DISGUSTING TO ME. ANYONE THAT VALUES FREEDOM SHOULD BE DISGUSTED BY THIS.

IT IS ALL FODDER OF THE POLICE STATE, AND THAT IS HISTORY. THE SOVIETS USED TO DO THIS TO PEOPLE TOO, EXCEPT IT WAS DONE FOR POLITICAL REASONS. THE ENTIRE WORLD UNDERSTANDS HOW THIS WORKS, THAT IS WHY IT IS SAYING IT. AMERICANS HAVE FORGOTTEN HOW ALL THIS WORKS, BECAUSE THEY ARE LIVING IT. THINK ABOUT THAT.

WAKE UP.

Meanwhile....The Progression continues...

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