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TomCADem

(17,390 posts)
Mon Nov 13, 2017, 01:12 AM Nov 2017

US puts on 3-carrier show of force for first time in decade

Source: MSN/CNN

Three US Navy aircraft carriers put on show of strength in the Western Pacific Ocean over the weekend, the first time three of the 100,000-ton behemoths have sailed together in a decade.

The USS Ronald Reagan, USS Theodore Roosevelt and USS Nimitz and their multi-ship strike groups are participating in the four days of exercises, which are expected to end Tuesday.

"Multiple carrier strike force operations are very complex, and this exercise in the Western Pacific is a strong testament to the US Pacific Fleet's unique ability and ironclad commitment to the continued security and stability of the region," Adm. Scott Swift, the commander of the US Pacific Fleet, said in a statement.

The presence of the three-carrier flotilla in Pacific waters is seen as a signal to North Korea that the US will not be intimidated by Pyongyang's continued testing of nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles.

Read more: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-puts-on-3-carrier-show-of-force-for-first-time-in-decade/ar-BBETc2q?li=BBnbcA1



Meanwhile, at the same time that Trump is compensating for the small size of his hands, the Trump administration is also proposing and implementing massive cuts in the State Department.

Russia was able to pretty much flip control over the U.S. with strategic use of soft power that was far more effective than military action. In contrast, Republicans want to massively increase military spending while cutting spending on diplomacy.
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TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
1. When I first heard this it stunned me...
Mon Nov 13, 2017, 02:01 AM
Nov 2017

First, anyone added up what this costs?

Then, are they really, really sure that all the ships involved in these battle groups won't hit each other, or local fishing fleets/freighters?

And finally, moving two groups into the area just for show without a real shootin' war might lead someone to think those groups have no point being where they were.

paleotn

(18,015 posts)
2. No worries...
Mon Nov 13, 2017, 08:37 AM
Nov 2017

multiple carriers were stationed in the tight confines of the Persian Gulf during Desert Storm and the Iraq War. And yes, it's mind bogglingly expensive to operate super carriers. One of the reasons no one else does it.

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
4. How much does it cost over having the same exact ships thousands of miles apart?
Mon Nov 13, 2017, 12:13 PM
Nov 2017

Probably nothing more.

Having peer pressure not to fuck up probably make them more alert than cruising alone.

It is a sign of aggression.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
6. Fuel is probably the largest cost, but there is maintenance...
Mon Nov 13, 2017, 01:15 PM
Nov 2017

spare parts and other losses any time you make that large a move.

Yes, it is obviously aggressive-- that seems to be the point with this guy. The greatest dealmaker in the world seems too be unable to make a deal with Kim.

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
9. But have they traveled any further than they would have anyway?
Mon Nov 13, 2017, 01:27 PM
Nov 2017

It's not like we bought new ships to put these three groups together. If they were not together, they would have been somewhere else, using the same spare parts, needing the same maintenance, etc.

There likely isn't a whole lot of extra expense for this exhibitionism.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
10. Not really. I'm no expert on the specifics of Navy operations, but I do remember...
Mon Nov 13, 2017, 01:46 PM
Nov 2017

that every time our Army battalion went out on maneuvers or training missions we not only used vast amounts of fuel but most of our equipment needed some sort of repair.

Trucks and tanks, for instance, were assumed to be good for no more than 30-50 miles per mission before they needed "recuperation". At several points, we had to cancel simple training operations because of budget restraints.

I imagine the costs for moving a carrier group would be vastly higher. Remember, it's not just the carrier itself, but its support vessels:

http://www.public.navy.mil/airfor/cvn69/Pages/CARRIER%20STRIKE%20GROUP.aspx

"CARRIER STRIKE GROUP

The Carrier Strike Group (CSG), composed of roughly 7,500 personnel, an aircraft carrier, at least one cruiser, a flotilla of six to 10 destroyers and/or frigates, and a carrier air wing of 65 to 70 aircraft. A carrier strike group is the largest operational unit of the United States Navy and comprises a principal element of U.S. power projection capability."

These are the combat vessels. Since not everything is nuclear, I suppose there are still oilers and other supply vessels attached to the group. Minesweepers?

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
11. You are ignoring that the three carrier groups would be deployed anyway.
Mon Nov 13, 2017, 02:03 PM
Nov 2017

Whether they are together or not, they would have the same costs.

I am not an expert on Naval operations either, but the costs for them being together are likely not higher than them being apart. The fact is, they would be somewhere, using expendables, no matter where they are.

The support vessels would still be using the same fuel, regardless. You are comparing your battalion not being deployed to being maneuvers or training missions. Are you asserting that these three carrier groups would be in port, anchored up if they were not together in the Pacific? Because it seems that is what you are implying.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
14. Pretty much so-- I have a tough time believing a long voyage is as cheap as...
Mon Nov 13, 2017, 03:13 PM
Nov 2017

lounging around in port or loafing around in the area.

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
15. Precisely my point. You are assuming that they would be laid up,
Mon Nov 13, 2017, 05:18 PM
Nov 2017

when in fact, they would be deployed somewhere else, if they where not together for this dick waving.

If they were sitting idle in port, there would be less cost, but that is not likely the case.

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
8. Tens of millions of extra dollars just to flex some muscle...America: World Bullyboy.
Mon Nov 13, 2017, 01:26 PM
Nov 2017

No wonder NK wants a nuclear deterrent. Not having one is what would be more insane.

dembotoz

(16,866 posts)
13. ponder for a moment battleship row at pearl harbor
Mon Nov 13, 2017, 03:09 PM
Nov 2017

i would hope they remain far enough apart that the nk fool is not tempted to do a 3 for 1 bomb hail mary

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