Link to tweet

but the NYT is reporting that he too is black

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/06/us/jazmine-barnes-arrest.html

The gun culture has got to go away.

Just curious on this one

is the spawn of the gun culture.

Read this article.... http://people.missouristate.edu/michaelcarlie/what_i_learned_about/gangs/culture.htm

People form groups.

Teens form groups because they have nothing else to do, really, and they're still trying to sort out their identities. Opposition is always an easier ground that commonalities.

They do this routinely in high school. When they graduate, they move on--they physically change location, they go to college, they get jobs. They can't "hang" like they used to. At college they may form new groups for social activities, for housing, for politics. After work they may form groups. But there's limited time because most of their effort goes to job and family.

We'll ignore criminal corporations for this post.

Many generations have had a surfeit of unemployed youth. Their "job" is their social group. They're in the group for years. After education ends, the group remains. The group is their job. Esp. if it can bring in $. These groups often turn to illegal activities for funding; they form in/out-group boundaries and defend their turf and protect from outsiders those they collect "rent" from. Those illegal activities, that need to defend turf is greater when that's their life and the more boundaries there are between them and the "outsiders". Age? Race? Class? Language? Geography? Often all of them overlap.

And the more deeply entrenched the group, the more profitable the activity, the more they need the group for validation and identity, the more likely it is that it'll survive generations. And the more likely that violence will be used to defend that turf, that income source, and identity. Because no xenophobe ever wants to be like the evil outsider out to get their livelihood, their women, etc. We're primates.

When money is more involved, it's worse. Irish gangs used mostly knives, but some guns. They may ooh and ah over guns, but the reason isn't "look at my nice gun, fellow gang members," but "look at this, I'm a man and can defend my turf by using it." The immature go for in-group prestige through possession; the more mature carry with it the explicit threat of "stay off my turf or I'll hurt you." And since identity is often group, it's most defending the group turf, the group honor, the group identity, the group income. Group and personal issues blur. My district has problems with occasionally an outsider wearing the wrong color or clothes and getting beat up for it--the kid does nothing against any individual, he's beaten up for perceived group membership.

I've known a lot of people in "gun culture." They grow up with guns. They ooh and ah over guns. They collect them. Some hunt animals for meat. Some hunt animals for the sake of hunting animals. Some shoot at targets. Some hunt beer and shoot at the empties. Some sit around drinking beer and discuss shooting at things. Most of them graduated high school and if their cliques survived, they're attenuated by job and family. They don't protect turf. They don't have profit that requires keeping outsiders out by the use of guns. They don't go out and try to kill members of the other hunting club from the next town. They murder, sure, but it's not because of guns or defending group turf--they'll kill defending personal turf, whether property or honor or significant other. Even if the love of their lives is firearms, they still don't form gangs. A roommate kept meticulous records of his marksmanship with commercial rounds and then cast his own bullets and loaded his own rounds; he had notebooks full of accuracy and muzzle-velocities based on bullet weight, powder mix and even brand of the components of his home-mixed powder. Loony. And yet not anything like a gang. Nothing illegal. Nothing antisocial, unless you think gun-ownership is antisocial. He had friends outside his "gun gang" and didn't feel the need to defend his friends when they said they were wronged. He also had no problem turning on his own, with no consequences, when one of his own stepped out of legal line.

It's like violin culture. I know people who grew up with violins. They ooh and ah over violins. They use and might collect them. Some play professionally. Some just play for themselves. Others mostly talk about playing and performing. They started in high school and continued, or they went to college and continued. But their real effort is in work and family. Apart from the fact that most people don't kill using their fiddles or put frog-based poison on sharped bow tips, it's like "gun culture." Violinists get mad and even murder. (Although, granted, it's far harder to kill with violins than with guns. Even badly played Skryabin isn't that lethal. Now, violas....) But nobody ascribes it to "violin culture." The difference is that if you're mad with a firearm it's easier to kill; if you're into knives instead of guns or violins, you'll find that it's easier to kill with a knife than a bow, but harder than with a gun. So much so that nobody talks about "violin culture" or "knife culture." But they're similar in every thing but death rates to gun culture. And still distinct from some of the features that make gangs identifiably gangs--whether you're talking Irish or Latino or black.

There's a difference between things like gun clubs or community orchestras and gangs.

Gun culture moved into the cities from rural areas. Gang culture, requiring a certain number of people and a fairly well consolidated turf, moved out from cities into rural areas. America didn't much have war lords over areas, even in the Wild West the stories were inflated.

since the beginning of collective habitation in towns and such. Modern day gang culture has been so powerful and long-lived because of gun culture.

It's a wonder that we ever catch the right people.

A russki troll?

Thanks, I'll read up on it.

I was saying the victim's family are likely not "Russki trolls".

What are the chances that this suspect turned out to be the most reliable witness?

the mother of the victim may have seen him close by and just assumed...(given the country we live in it would not be surprising)

It’s pretty amazing it’s been allowed to go on this long.

That kind of thing.

Is the truth something worth reporting on and sharing?

Hopefully nothing happened to that innocent bystander in the pickup truck.

Last edited Mon Jan 7, 2019, 09:48 AM - Edit history (1)

Your concern is vigilantes have done something to an unidentified/undiscovered person? Why would that happen? I can't even think of an incident like that except from an old TV western. You know, a lynching.

So even after the cops id'd the real culprits within days with at least one volunteered confession you imagine some sort of random injustice to someone there's only a generic drawing of: a white dude with a beard in a hoodie at night. Sounds like Clue only in this case no-ones dead. Except a child in another senseless gun crime.

That's not it. Be honest: What's your real concern?

Seems to be a sadly common occurrence.

But civil rights activist Shaun King -- who worked to push a reward up to $100,000 for identification of the killer -- posted on Twitter Sunday morning that the driver in the truck was simply mistaken for a suspect as he drove away from the gunfire.
"It appears that man was an innocent bystander who fled, actually fearing for his life as well," King tweeted. "He was not the shooter."

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Detectives-interviewing-person-of-interest-in-13511609.php#photo-16718409

with facts.

Wouldn't you also like to hear what the real concern is here? I know I would.

I got a feel what the concern was here already.

Link to tweet

Good thing no one put up his license plate number or anything.

As it was Shaun King, a civil rights activist, tracked down the real killers and reported them to the police.

1. Police posting the license plate likely would have led to people online ID-ing and possibly harming an innocent person.

2. Shaun King did not track down the real killers

It's in the article I linked.

The police would have used the license to link to the person and could have spoke to him sooner. That's LEO 101.

For example:

A 40 y/o white man w/ a beard in a red pickup truck pulled up on 7 y/o Jazmine Barnes and her family near a Houston @Walmart and shot and killed her and injured others.

Link to tweet

At that time that was what was assumed. Thursday he sent the tip to the police and they found the people thanks to his help.

What was your basis for that claim?

He offered a $100k reward. He received the identity of the killers and passed it onto the police. The police attested one of them and he confessed.

That qualifies as tracking them down.

Link to tweet

I can understand confusing a person passing you speeding away from gunfire for the person shooting up your vehicle. It also explains why she said is face looked so white lie he was sick or something. He was terrified, too.

This was a frigged gang hit....pure and simple....nothing more complicated that that.
Shawn King posting a bounty on a 40 yr old white guy with a beard in a red truck...could have gotten an innocent 40ish y/o white guy with a beard...killed.

Link to tweet

They were mistaken for someone else, too.

....On innocents.

One of which freaked out when their vehicle was being shot up and mistook another person freaking out and trying to escape for the vehicle shooting them.

Totally NOT related to the hit...but that was the go to?

Really? Did you see the pictures of those that admitted to the hit?

Bearded...white...red truck? 40 yrs old?
Please....I expect that from Shawn King. He basically put a bounty on a scared person running away.....not people here.

about this mystery person (I mean it might have been a bearded lady from a carnival) that concerns you and Mr O????

And why didn't the white guy come forward?

I don't know, he doesn't elaborate on how he found out.

Link to tweet

Then that makes the white guy AT LEAST accessory to a murder? Two guys?

And why try so hard to say the white guy's got to be guilty?

For now, the two guys charged in the shooting are both black. One has the surname "Black," the other "Woodruffe."

Perhaps a jury will find them innocent. Perhaps evidence will out that they shouldn't even go to trial. Perhaps not.

At this point, I'd bet on their being found guilty. But I wouldn't bet much. The odds said it would be a black male responsible, just because them's the statistics, and it turned out try. Odds would have said the killers knew the victim or their intended target, but that would have been a false prediction. That's the thing about using stats to predict, they don't always work.

The mother assumed correlation was causation: There's this white guy in a pick up about the time my girl was shot. I will causally connect the two based on proximity. She was wrong, which isn't uncommon for somebody who's felt threatened and found that a loved on is dead or dying. The other eyewitnesses--her kids--hardly qualify as independent witnesses. They'd have certainly discussed him between the fraction of a second they saw him and the time the sketch artist sat them down. She was wrong. Odds are the drawing's not a close match, either, but if I say what the research is for sure somebody'll be offended.

After the description was announced, the narrative was 'racist white kills cute black girl'. Those who argued, "Let's wait for the evidence" were the targets. Now, that's not a pro or con position, it can't be shown to be wrong, it's merely factual. Sometimes the facts fall one way; sometimes the other way. Either way, it's a solid position to stake out--"let's wait for the truth before we belief suspicions."

For running away?

Mr. Black and any accomplices deserves a sentence of death if convicted for his alleged role in the killing of Jazmine Barnes.

it doesn't do anything. Effective gun control measures will do a lot more to stop gun related murders than anything. I don't think this is capital murder, anyways.

Simply put, I see the sentence of death as an appropriate consequence for the murder of Jazmine Barnes.

Impartial or not in your belief he is now closer to a death sentence.

They have a DP express line

being a non-white victim means there is a less likely chance that the murderer of that victim will be given a death penalty. Another reason why the death penalty needs to be done away with. There is no way it can be equitably meted out, whether you have some sort of remotely derived "satisfaction" from it or not.

Its like mothers teaching kids not to bite by biting them.

What it teaches kids really is that 1. Don't get caught. 2. Its OK to bite people who are smaller or that its OK to bite people you have power over.

The death penalty is wrong on so many levels.

Gotcha.

Happy to help you gotcha.

...to be the murderer a few days ago.

This one is a 20-year old AA, the description was a 40-year old white man. I hope they have the right person and didn't just make the arrest to quiet things down.

Don't forget the Boston Charles Stuart case in 1989.

They have arrested the suspected shooter as well, also a young black man.

Apparently the white man described by witnesses was just someone leaving the scene.

No one will care now.

bullshit. Got any more "profound" insights to share?

It’s based on observation of this site. I’m not the only one to see this.

But hey, thanks for the nasty accusation dude.

that, since the child's murderers were two black men instead of the middle-aged white man of initial reports, people and the MSM would no longer care and it wouldn't be considered important. In other words, since it's a black on black crime, ho-hum, big deal, who cares. And there's also the implication that hate crimes aren't nearly as important as gang crimes, which is bullshit.

It's a great way to advance the agenda.

Nothing to be concerned about. It's not r-word.

Wold

If so, anything new or interesting come out of it?

about whatever it was was wasted.

C'mon, just between you and me: what was your real concern?

It's a different shooting.

Here's the first clue:

but I am in this case. These two guys are young. I want them to die in prison, of old age.