I would love for dems to propose a bill offering whatever they need for the wall under one condition....be "fiscally CONservitive", gotta pay for it by eliminating the tax cut and all loopholes for the wealthy so they have to help pay. The biggest demander of a wall for many more billions than 5, is trump, Coulter and Hannity. Trump pays no taxes and you can be damn sure the other two pay less than lower middle class people. We already added 1.7 trillion and climbing, to the debt. They scream we can't pay for health care, education or infrastructure but are certainly willing to let "US" pay for the fucking wall. They will not be out one cent for it and not lose one cent during the hostage takeover. Not One damn penny for a wall they will not pay a penny for. "Can't built wall, hands too small."

He just got reelected and won't be up for 6 years. WTF.

He's a DINO, for sure, but his state is so poor it would kill the people there if SS and Medicare or Medicaid were privatized.

at least in Congress...

And then some complain when party leadership doesn't strongarm other dems....

He can't force him to vote our way. Pissing him off might make him switch Party's.

Look at the example of Nancy Pelosi. She is a true leader.

Now is not the time to straddle both sides. He needs to say I'M NOT VOTING FOR A FUCKIN' WALL!

Which way is the wind blowing Joe?

Trump's popularity is tanking and even Republicans blame him for the shutdown.

This is to spite Pelosi and Schumer, I think.

voted for both bills

He's a Democrat from West Virginia. I don't have a problem with this.

who voted against reopening the government.

so I wondered what was up with the debt ceiling and learned that it is suspended until March 1 of this year due to the Trump tax cut being signed into law. Since I don't listen to the pundits because I don't have a TV, has there been any mention of what happens if this chess game continues?

I know we're hard pressed to get somebody better in that state, but cmon.

He doesn't act like much of a Democrat, but he's also in West Virginia, where if he actually voted Democratic most of the time, he wouldn't be in office.

Voting with Trump 65 percent of the time is better than a Republican in his position voting with Trump 100 percent of the time.

Even a DINO in WV is gravy ... period.

for the next 6x years, even if he votes totally DINO, he is 1 of 100 seats closer to having Mitch eventually step down as majority leader.

In 2020 with him, we need a net of 4x seats to unseat Mitch. Without Joe it would be 5x seats.

No progressive member of the Democratic Party will sit the Senate in WV.. at least not in the foreseeable future.

Or and deep red state.

He is the best we will ever get cause the alternative is a republican.

I’m happy to have him.

There's no other way to describe it.

better to have someone who votes D 45% of the time, than an R who votes R 100% of the time.

He knows what he is doing.

Many of his votes are going to disappoint us. But he’s better than any Republican in that seat.

But still better than the alternative

who votes with us 70% of the time over someone who votes with us 0% of the time. Any. Day.

... not everyone sees things in varying shades of gray. In their binary black-and-white world he's not "pure" enough so they believe he should be punished by being "primaried". This would result in a "purer" candidate who would lose statewide to an actual Republican, or this type of scorched-earth ripping-him-to-shreds "punishment" would diminish his chances of being able to carry the entire state, which would again, give the victory to the Republican.

All I'm trying to say here is that it's a LOSE-LOSE proposition all in the name of purity and it serves no good purpose for anyone to pursue this type of vanity which is a luxury that we cannot afford.

Nobody ever talks about "purity" except those trying to deride the people that supposedly want it.

It's a totally made up straw-man issue. As you know.

On this thread alone, people are out to behead Joe Manchin because of a few votes that they don't like. They want him primaried and eliminated so that a mythically fictional hypothetical candidate who guarantees voting with the leftmost wing; would swoop in, change the minds of a vast majority of West Virginians and suddenly be victorious. Correct?

Not accepting even an iota of "impure" votes is the very definition of "purity" is it not? Was it not enough that Joe Manchin voted AGAINST ACA Repeal (which was a tough vote) and voted AGAINST Trump Tax Cuts? (Not an easy vote either)

DINO gonna DINO.

with friends like that who needs enemies.
I fully understand that he represent
His constituencies views but how is that
help us? We are better off without him
in the long run.

the majority and therefore chairmanships of each and every committee as well as Leadership of the Senate Chamber itself. He counts towards that whether he votes 100% D or 45%D, as long as he has that D after his name.

constituency whether we can vote for him or not. We need to primary this guy. I don’t buy the BS better with than without anymore. It yields us nothing as far as improving the economic playing field or protecting our grandchildrens’ future economically or environmentally. Let’s at least primary him.

He is immensely popular in West Virginia. The Purity -- I mean Justice -- Democrats don't stand a chance there.

You forget that he carried a state that Trump had won by 29 points.

We can’t and shouldn’t be silent in blue dog states. We will only build support and actually change things by promoting our message — in person via campaigns. We should never resign ourselves to being held back by blue dogs.

We need to be purists seeking the purest things and we'll not only get rid of blue dogs and republicans but we'll reverse global warming, eliminate poverty and there will never be hungry person anywhere. Everyone will have a well-paying job with benefits, two cars and a beautiful house. The health care would be so perfect, no one will ever get any disease and no one will die.

In reality, there is non-stop anti-Trump coverage which shows that Trump is a criminal mobster who is grifting and is a Russian agent. If that cannot move 45% of the people, I have no idea what message will make them become purity seeking progressives with a "message."

I am a bit more realistic.

I agree that we need to make a change to progressive thinking but it won't happen in decades - especially in WV.

the only one that will get us there eventually. The system is rigged -- spouting about "realism" is one of the messages that enables that. In the end, it is defeatist. I'm through playing that game after 40+ years.

I do hope Manchin is primaried.

The last time, Manchin won the primary 70-30

that makes the vote 50-50. Does someone have to call for the filibuster before it is applied? Why isn't more pressure being put on the people who are invoking the filibuster? I understand that even with a 50-50 vote Pence will break the tie, but there again that will put more pressure on him.

Have you forgotten the Union? Have you forgotten the workers with the health issues related to unsafe practices by coal owners?

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to the Trump voters or in other words he is trying to both have his cake and enjoy eating it at the same time.

Because he's not really a fucking Democrat. When will the Democratic Party acknowledge this and toss him on his ass.

West Virginia is pretty conservative. There aren't enough liberals there to win running as a true Democrat.

my relatives have forgotten their fathers who died from "black lung" or are outnumbered by greedy politicians. Yes, Joe talk to US. You dismiss US because we hold no political power in WV?

I am a fiscal conservative myself. The assault on human values is beyond the pale. Have you no decent moral values devoid of political and financial gain sir?

always willing to get a little cheeto dust around his lips!!!

We are under PHYSICAL attack by the GOP and the KGB, your and my lives are in danger, NOW.

It is unsafe to fly, it is unsafe to eat food.

Joe is voting on both proposals because of the type of constituents he has, mostly morons. He has to do what he has to do to keep the seat blue.

He isn’t doing what he has to do for Democrats, his seat is safe for 6 years.
First, no one is going to remember or care that he voted against the trump’s wall 6 years from now.

Second, this old hat about having to be a DINO to survive in red states is intellectually lazy politics. There are genuine ways to shape opinions that make clear connections as to why the wall is not in WV interest and why Medicare for all is important to them. Why climate change matters. Why student loan debt is crushing our future economy.
There is a pathway to reshape opinions in our favor on a lot of issues but it requires a lot less effort to feed into the ignorance and racism of a small group of people simply because they are the loudest in the room.
We will always struggle with majorities if we admit defeat before we even start.

Notice he votes where it helps him at home but is not the deciding vote...given demographics a big tent is the only way we can hold a majority in the Senate...without which we will never confirm a judge.

without a majority, we never will name another judge.

So he votes with the Democrats on all the unimportant stuff, yay!

Agreed he is very frustrating but let’s be accurate at DU

He is from a conservative state and we are very luck to have that seat.

He is the only democrat who could have pulled off the victory he just had.

Do I personally like his politics? Of course not. But I am from a state like West Virginia. A state with 2 republican senators.

...

He, like most repukes, has a healthy fear of his constituents, even as a "Democrat". I think of Joe as a 50/50 Dem/Rep. Don't expect too much from him and you'll never be disappointed.

If you think about it, he gets to please his base and the measure still won't pass. win/win.

It’s best to just leave him alone, otherwise we could 54(R’s) instead of 53(R’s).

He was placed as a Democrat to help the repubs

He held firm on not repealing ACA.
He voted against Trump tax cuts.

The only vote that was questionable was confirming Cavanaugh and it wouldn't have mattered anyway. He won the election because of it. Heidi Heitcamp and Claire McCaskill took the futile principled stand and they lost the elections.

I only wish we had 4 more DINO's from Red States now!! Sure would like the gavel back!!

Democrat Joe Manchin (R)

I can't move out of here soon enough.

We did have a democratic congresswoman vote against the bills to reopen the government but she was hailed as a paradigm of conscience and doing the right thing for her constituents.

However, some of the same people parading her on their shoulders are now vilifying Manchin without recognizing that he has a different constituency than the blue states.

WV has turned into one of the most Republican-dominant states in America. Sen. Manchin stinks but we're lucky to have him.

Lots of uneducated voters there. Coal is all they know, so they love Trump and his lies. I give him a break based on the fact he votes with us when he can. A Republican from WV would NEVER vote with us.

as did Alexander, Collins, Gardner, Isakson, Murkowski and Romney. Jacky Rosen voted for neither.

from Democrats. Some people say I am a dreamer.

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I would love to have him as my Senator in Florida.

Eyes on the prize. He represents his state. And will vote McTurtle out of the Leadership if we win the Senate in 2020