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nitpicker

(7,153 posts)
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 05:49 AM Jan 2019

Venezuela crisis: US pulls out staff and tells citizens to 'strongly consider' leaving

Source: The Guardian

Venezuela crisis: US pulls out staff and tells citizens to 'strongly consider' leaving

Tom Phillips Latin America correspondent and Julian Borger in Washington

Fri 25 Jan 2019 00.05 GMT First published on Thu 24 Jan 2019 16.10 GMT

The US state department has urged its citizens to “strongly consider” leaving Venezuela and ordered out non-emergency government staff as the head of the country’s armed forces warned of a civil war sparked by a US-backed “criminal plan” to unseat Nicolás Maduro.

In a live address to the nation on Thursday, the defence minister, Vladimir Padrino, accused the Venezuelan opposition led by Juan Guaidó, the United States and regional allies such as Brazil of launching an attempted coup against Maduro that risked bringing “chaos and anarchy” to the country.
(snip)

The US initially ignored the Maduro government’s order expelling embassy staff, but late on Thursday the state department announced it was withdrawing “non-emergency US government employees”.

“We are prepared to do the things we need to do to make sure we keep our people safe,” a state department spokesperson said. “The full range of United States government resources are at the ready to ensure the safety and security of US diplomats and their families.”
(snip)

Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/24/venezuela-maduro-guaido-defense-minister-civil-war

69 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Venezuela crisis: US pulls out staff and tells citizens to 'strongly consider' leaving (Original Post) nitpicker Jan 2019 OP
We picked sides WAY too quickly there Recursion Jan 2019 #1
Not a rookie mistake FBaggins Jan 2019 #4
Trump cares about democracy? Devil Child Jan 2019 #24
Vlad enid602 Jan 2019 #28
Maybe our US tax dollars shouldn't be meddling in Venezuelan politics Farmer-Rick Jan 2019 #2
Venezuela doesn't HAVE an "elected government" FBaggins Jan 2019 #6
Not so sure little Putin likes the current Venezuelan government. Farmer-Rick Jan 2019 #7
"As for organizations declaring Venezuelan elections unfair, US propaganda goes very deep" EX500rider Jan 2019 #10
I'm saying you can spin anything Farmer-Rick Jan 2019 #17
Yes you certainly can try to spin anything..so which of the following is untrue? EX500rider Jan 2019 #29
This is for Recursion and Farmer-Rick Perseus Jan 2019 #3
So you say and yet Maduro keeps getting reelected Farmer-Rick Jan 2019 #8
Yes, you find one story that almost helps your case...how about: EX500rider Jan 2019 #11
Well done Perseus Jan 2019 #14
Yes the deep pockets of the dethroned oligarchs in Venezuela are buying some damn good propaganda Farmer-Rick Jan 2019 #19
You are either a supporter of maduro in Venezuela or? Perseus Jan 2019 #25
One of the wealthiest men in Venezuela, who owns communications media, along with everything else, Judi Lynn Jan 2019 #49
Except you have yet to disprove a single bad thing about Venz. EX500rider Jan 2019 #61
Seeing this post refreshed some memories in a hurry. Very interesting: Judi Lynn Jan 2019 #60
Well, a Twitter post, that convinces me! lol EX500rider Jan 2019 #62
The twitter post is repeating information which was published already some time ago. Judi Lynn Jan 2019 #64
Maduro cheats, its a well know fact, exit numbers were all in favour of Capriles Perseus Jan 2019 #13
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no one voted and the government didn't even conduct an election. Farmer-Rick Jan 2019 #22
Well we can take your word for it with the zero proof you have offered... EX500rider Jan 2019 #30
The election was about as legit as Iraqi elections during the Saddam years. Ace Rothstein Jan 2019 #18
That is not true even WaPo claimed it wasn't that bad...don't buy the propaganda Farmer-Rick Jan 2019 #20
Keep in mind this is a situation where I think a US backed coup is mostly a good idea Recursion Jan 2019 #9
Correct, you hit the nail in the head Perseus Jan 2019 #15
Really you want other countries to instigate coups in foreign lands? Farmer-Rick Jan 2019 #21
That's an odd conclusion to draw from what I said Recursion Jan 2019 #23
When has a US backed coup ever produced a positive outcome? Devil Child Jan 2019 #68
chavez was backed by 3/4's of the population. Don't blow smoke and peddle B/S. juxtaposed Jan 2019 #27
Chavez has been dead for awhile and his successor has ruined the country...and stole the election. EX500rider Jan 2019 #31
and that was accomplished by the r/w fasists in Caracas. If the right wing could have gotten away juxtaposed Jan 2019 #35
Right, poorly thought out government polices had nothing to do with it...lol EX500rider Jan 2019 #36
please go on, and when you are done go kiss Friedrich Hayek,and Milton Friedman's juxtaposed Jan 2019 #39
So all those Venezuelan govt polices are working out well are they? EX500rider Jan 2019 #40
No one asked the rich SOB fasicists to moved to the US and bring their money too. juxtaposed Jan 2019 #43
Really, people don't want to stay in a country with no food & medicine? EX500rider Jan 2019 #45
How many non-governmental US citizens could be left in Venezuela? FBaggins Jan 2019 #5
Off the top of my head - aid workers, artists, researchers. haele Jan 2019 #12
Certainly not oil workers FBaggins Jan 2019 #16
"U.S. citizens who are just "kicking around" looking for interesting places to be" EX500rider Jan 2019 #32
This attempted coup has been being pushed for a few years by a couple DU members. juxtaposed Jan 2019 #26
Really hard to see how it could get worse for them: EX500rider Jan 2019 #33
you have not read the news over the past few years? The R/W of Caracus and money handlers juxtaposed Jan 2019 #37
The reason any food is being "held back" is due to government price controls.. EX500rider Jan 2019 #38
That is total B/S and you know that. What no one reads the news anymore? juxtaposed Jan 2019 #41
lol, so are you saying there is no inflation AND price controls in Venz? EX500rider Jan 2019 #42
no one would ever post that and no one would ever post a contrived graf put out by a right wing juxtaposed Jan 2019 #51
Feel free to find a SINGLE graph that shows no rampant inflation in Venz. EX500rider Jan 2019 #53
what about r/w talking points for the last 5 years? does that count? juxtaposed Jan 2019 #54
What counts are facts which you seem to be in short supply. n/t EX500rider Jan 2019 #55
u seem to be the only one, An old tactic to pull infiltrators from hiding is to let them do all the juxtaposed Jan 2019 #56
I understand why you prefer fact free as the facts don't help your case at all. n/t EX500rider Jan 2019 #57
"What no one reads the news anymore?" Feel free to show some "news" that backs you.. EX500rider Jan 2019 #67
The right-wing oligarchs have always had US support, heavy support, material and other, enforcing Judi Lynn Jan 2019 #50
Exactly which of the opposition parties in MUD do you think are "fascists"? EX500rider Jan 2019 #34
The very light skined ones, which ones do you think do not back your point of view? juxtaposed Jan 2019 #44
I see, light skinned Venz's bad, dark skinned ones good, is that it? n/t EX500rider Jan 2019 #46
As everyone knows the light-skinned European-descended oligarchs have always controlled the country. Judi Lynn Jan 2019 #47
You both don't seem to grasp that EVERYBODY is now poor in Venz. EX500rider Jan 2019 #58
You're staking your credibility upon a report created by 3 elitist universities in Venezuela? Judi Lynn Jan 2019 #63
So can't disprove anything they said so throw mud and hope nobody notices? lol EX500rider Jan 2019 #65
"You're staking your credibility upon a report created by 3 elitist universities" EX500rider Jan 2019 #69
You know as most do that is true. It is the foundation of what is going on. juxtaposed Jan 2019 #48
No I do not know that is true. Only a racist thinks skin color controls goodness or badness. EX500rider Jan 2019 #52
Am I the only one who finds Maduro supporters are kind of scary? ripcord Jan 2019 #59
Worse I'd say. Mostly dyed in the wool Marxists who miss the good ole days of the USSR. EX500rider Jan 2019 #66

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
1. We picked sides WAY too quickly there
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 06:46 AM
Jan 2019

Rookie mistake on Trump's part there. Don't back the usurper until he's usurped. Unfortunately we just probably cemented Maduro in power for another decade.

FBaggins

(26,789 posts)
4. Not a rookie mistake
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 10:29 AM
Jan 2019

He (along with virtually every country in the hemisphere) is likely hoping that their quick backing is one of the few things that might make the switch back to democracy possible.

 

Devil Child

(2,728 posts)
24. Trump cares about democracy?
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 03:52 PM
Jan 2019

Not trying to be snide but do you really believe Trump and his administration are paying anything more than lip-service to democracy in Venezuela? If Trump can install a Bolsonaro or Pinochet clone they will most certainly do so.

Farmer-Rick

(10,240 posts)
2. Maybe our US tax dollars shouldn't be meddling in Venezuelan politics
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 09:48 AM
Jan 2019

If we don't like the Russian involvement in our politics, why are we doing the same thing to another country?

By the way, you know if fat Traitor Trump is involved in overthrowing a foreign country's ELECTED government, it's going to go horribly wrong no matter how much money foreign capitalist throw at it.

FBaggins

(26,789 posts)
6. Venezuela doesn't HAVE an "elected government"
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 10:38 AM
Jan 2019

The UN, EU, OAS (etc.) all say that the "election" was illegitimate and anti-democratic. Venezuela lost anything approaching an elected government when the dictator dissolved the elected legislature and effectively took control of all three branches of government.

The countries that agree with you are limited to Cuba, Russia, Iran, North Korea, Syria...

Notice a pattern?

Farmer-Rick

(10,240 posts)
7. Not so sure little Putin likes the current Venezuelan government.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 11:06 AM
Jan 2019

Why would he allow Traitor Trump to fund the opposition during his entire term and attempt to set up a coup? If you let you puppet destroy something, you obviously don't care for it.

No, I think Russia, or at least it's mob boss, has something to gain by disrupting Venezuela.

As for organizations declaring Venezuelan elections unfair, US propaganda and funding goes very deep. Do you think they could have orchestrated a coup if they didn't get some organizations to declare it unfair?

EX500rider

(10,891 posts)
10. "As for organizations declaring Venezuelan elections unfair, US propaganda goes very deep"
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:14 PM
Jan 2019

Are you sayings Maduro didn't form his own illegal Congress when he lost control of the real elected one?

That he didn't stuff the Judiciary with his own yes-men?

That he didn't jail popular opposition leaders?

That he didn't move up the election date to throw off the opposition?

That he hasn't ruined their economy?

That inflation isn't over a MILLLION %?

That 3 million Venezuelans have fled the country?

All propaganda?

Farmer-Rick

(10,240 posts)
17. I'm saying you can spin anything
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 02:20 PM
Jan 2019

And the propaganda against the current socialist government in Venezuela is very deep, very prolific and very wrong.

The uber rich oligarchs were very upset when Chavez dethroned them. They have been constantly spinning their web of lies ever since. Just like Little putin did for Traitor trump, these oligarchs have done for the opposition. But it is a tough con and unlike US voters, they are more savvy about manipulation.

EX500rider

(10,891 posts)
29. Yes you certainly can try to spin anything..so which of the following is untrue?
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 04:29 PM
Jan 2019

Are you sayings Maduro didn't form his own illegal Congress when he lost control of the real elected one?

That he didn't stuff the Judiciary with his own yes-men?

That he didn't jail popular opposition leaders?

That he didn't move up the election date to throw off the opposition?

That he hasn't ruined their economy?

That inflation isn't over a MILLLION %?

That 3 million Venezuelans have fled the country?

Venezuelans reported losing on average 11 kilograms (24 lbs) in body weight last year and almost 90 percent now live in poverty.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-food/venezuelans-report-big-weight-losses-in-2017-as-hunger-hits-idUSKCN1G52HA

 

Perseus

(4,341 posts)
3. This is for Recursion and Farmer-Rick
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 10:25 AM
Jan 2019

If you ask the people from Venezuela about a USA intervention they will tell you that the USA is six late, the Venezuelan people DO want the USA to help, why the USA allowed the Chavez regime to flourish is still a big puzzle.

1. Chavez was being lead by Fidel Castro whose goal was to "bring socialism" (communism and repression) to all South America.
Why is it that the USA did nothing? Because GW and his boss Cheney had the PNC plans which did not include S. America at the time.
2. Thanks to lack of intervention, the Cuban communism has spread in many parts of S. America, giving Putin a free platform.
3. The Chavez/Maduro communism/dictatorship has been repressive, has broken all laws pertaining to human rights, has lined up their and the military pockets creating billionaires of all of them amd leaving the country to suffer by ignoring infrastructure, etc.

So ask Venezuelans if they want the USA to intervene, and 75% of the population will say "yes, please".

Bush was incompetent, but why Obama did not do anything is a puzzle...If Putin gets hold of S. America, it will be catastrophic for the USA, and the World.

Please read about the situation in Venezuela to help make a criteria of what needs to happen there. Yes, it is unfortunate that trump is in the WH at this time, but lets hope the few "adults in the room" make the right decisions to clean up S. America, we don't want Putin to use it as his playing ground.

Farmer-Rick

(10,240 posts)
8. So you say and yet Maduro keeps getting reelected
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 11:24 AM
Jan 2019

So, if the people love the US and Traitor Trump setting up a dictator for them and organizing a coup in their country why don't they simply vote him out? None of the agencies have declared the election was totally illegitimate. They just claimed it was unfair. This is from a very scathing review of the last election by WAPO:

"In short, what happened Sunday scarcely resembled a free and fair election. But neither was it an Azerbaijan-style farce with the announced results entirely disconnected from the underlying votes cast. Venezuela’s election system contains relatively robust checks that would leave clear evidence in the opposition’s hands if that happened. As far as we can tell, it didn’t. Out of the 10,800,016 votes cast, 54 percent really did go to the government. (And turnout, at 61 percent, was relatively high.)"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/democracy-post/wp/2017/10/17/venezuelas-democracy-is-fake-but-the-governments-latest-election-win-was-real/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.2bcf660f2e04

Yes, I know many of the uber rich oligarchs are quite upset with their socialist country but they don't seem to have enough votes among them to vote him out. Much like US elections, meddling, propaganda and intimidation are common political tools. But someone voted for Maduro and they won. Election have consequences and it isn't the US's responsibility to put in pro US dictators every time a country goes socialist.

EX500rider

(10,891 posts)
11. Yes, you find one story that almost helps your case...how about:
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:20 PM
Jan 2019
United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights Zeid Ra'ad al-Hussein stated that the election "does not in any way fulfill minimal conditions for free and credible elections"

Prior to the elections, the Lima Group, with its participating nations of Argentina, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Guatemala, Guyana, Honduras, Mexico, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, and Saint Lucia, stated that they would not recognize the results of the presidential elections due to the perceived lack of transparency.
The European Union, through the European Parliament, also ruled that it would not recognize the 20 May elections and called the electoral process "fraudulent". On 3 May 2018, the European Parliament again called for the immediate suspension of the 20 May election until "free and fair elections were held on a schedule agreed upon with the participation of all relevant actors and political parties"

The governments of Argentina,[161] Canada,[162] Chile,[163] Colombia,[151] Costa Rica,[164] France,[165] Jamaica,[166] Panama,[167] Paraguay,[168] Spain,[169] the United States[160] and Uruguay[170] directly criticized the electoral process in various ways, condemning the disqualification and imprisonment of MUD individuals, the lack of advanced notice for the election date and the bias of electoral bodies, describing such actions by the Venezuelan government antidemocratic.[171][172] Remaining member governments representing countries from the Lima Group, including Brazil, Guatemala, Guyana, Honduras, Mexico, Peru, and Saint Lucia, denounced the elections in a joint statement through declarations made by the organization.[151]

Meanwhile, the governments of Antigua and Barbuda,[173] Bolivia,[174] Cuba,[175][176] Nicaragua,[177] North Korea[178] and Russia[179][180] reacted to the call for elections positively, showing support for the process and demanded that there be no intervention.


Well if N Korea and Russia say it was fair it must be so, right? lol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Venezuelan_presidential_election#International
 

Perseus

(4,341 posts)
14. Well done
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 01:05 PM
Jan 2019

That is the reality...

We have to be very concerned, Putin has his hands in Venezuela, he wants to get as close as he can to the USA and Venezuela is a great place to do it. Venezuela was always a dream for Fidel Castro, he tried it once many years ago but the government that was at the time threw them out of the country, and then he found Chavez, that was his lottery winning number.

Farmer-Rick

(10,240 posts)
19. Yes the deep pockets of the dethroned oligarchs in Venezuela are buying some damn good propaganda
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 02:30 PM
Jan 2019

It goes unchallenged day after day. Good people buy into it and soon a lie becomes the truth.

Just like the right constantly trashed Obama and Hillary, so that birth certificate and e mails embroiled a whole state and became a Senate issue. The uber rich oligarchs own the media and will use it to the detriment of the country.

 

Perseus

(4,341 posts)
25. You are either a supporter of maduro in Venezuela or?
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 04:03 PM
Jan 2019

I don't think you know enough to make a sound judgement.

I have family and friends who live in Venezuela, they are not oligarchs, like you like to call them. The new "oligarchs" are the chavistas, and maduro's families, and all the corrupt politicians and military there.

Here, get a taste of Diosdado Cabello's house in Caracas at the prestigious "Country Club"
]https://www.google.com/search?q=la+casa+de+diosdado+cabello+el+country&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS818US818&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=vrmJ_vJYfte6yM%253A%252CSWSQQXZKLkGALM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kSrbXuS2g0TnncxhWT53lST5YsSEw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjn25jR2ongAhUSQ6wKHSHrCdMQ9QEwAHoECAAQBA#imgrc=vrmJ_vJYfte6yM:

At the link you can see how the "Socialists" enjoy like in their yachts, with 'Cartier' watches, fancy cars (Lamborghini, etc.), at Sea World in the "Empire" they so much claim to hate, etc...

Judi Lynn

(160,672 posts)
49. One of the wealthiest men in Venezuela, who owns communications media, along with everything else,
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 06:12 PM
Jan 2019

is a close personal friend, and fishing buddy, of George H. W. Bush over decades, a Cuban "exile" who relocated to Venezuela, is also a major owner of Univision right here in the US where he's also hard at work molding public perception for the hard right greedy oligarchs. Wildly corrupt, completely disgusting.

He is considered "Venezuela's Richard Murdoch", good old Gustavo Cisneros.

He was one of those who helped plan the coup against Hugo Chavez, and flew immediately after their coup collapsed due to the public's extreme resistance, to meet with George H. W. Bush in a resort in the D.R., the resort being owned by the Fanjuls, the sugar-baron "exiles" (Cuban) who relocated there from South Florida, where they own sugar plantations.

Sordid, vile, vulgar, and totally dirty people. Sure people like him have ALWAYS owned businesses and politicians throughout the Americas, and kept fast friendships/mutually beneficial relationships with U.S. American industrialists and politicians.

It takes a totally corrupted person to keep trying to do their propaganda work for them by attacking the vast multitude of oppressed poor, the working class of the Americas, kept unnaturally poor by the greedy elites.

Have appreciated your comments. Thank you.

EX500rider

(10,891 posts)
61. Except you have yet to disprove a single bad thing about Venz.
Sat Jan 26, 2019, 12:48 AM
Jan 2019

And maybe you ought to look into freedom of the press in Venz.

Human Rights Watch said that during "the leadership of President Chávez and now President Maduro, the accumulation of power in the executive branch and the erosion of human rights guarantees have enabled the government to intimidate, censor, and prosecute its critics" and reported that broadcasters may be censored if they criticize the government.[4][5]

Reporters Without Borders said that the media in Venezuela is "almost entirely dominated by the government and its obligatory announcements, called cadenas


According to the National Sindicate of Press Workers of Venezuela, 115 media outlets have been shut down between 2013 and 2018 during Nicolás Maduro's government, including 41 printed means, 65 radio outlets and 9 television channels.

Let me guess, Human Rights Watch & Reporters Without Borders in on the right wing plot you imagine against Venz.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Venezuela

Judi Lynn

(160,672 posts)
60. Seeing this post refreshed some memories in a hurry. Very interesting:
Sat Jan 26, 2019, 12:27 AM
Jan 2019

🇨🇺 Miami Red ☭
@Miami_Rebelde
Replying to
@SenSanders
Actually, none of the observers that went there, including the UN, said that the elections were fraudulent. It was the US who sent no observers and the Opposition who refused to participate who claimed that. As a matter of fact, the Opposition begged the UN not to send observers
6:00 PM · Jan 24, 2019

https://mobile.twitter.com/Miami_Rebelde/status/1088587437318815744?fbclid=IwAR0wqqaatt8XYvVm7dPCF4YdRQkjdToldDiplNzzR0D7qi6kQeiqYUEa6fo


Who didn't know this some time ago, anyway? Unbelievable.

To try to insist people buy the opposite of the truth is a tall order, and not a worthy way to spend one's one and only life.

EX500rider

(10,891 posts)
62. Well, a Twitter post, that convinces me! lol
Sat Jan 26, 2019, 12:55 AM
Jan 2019

Much better source then the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights Zeid Ra'ad al-Hussein, who said:
the election "does not in any way fulfill minimal conditions for free and credible elections" .

To try to insist people buy the opposite of the truth is a tall order And yet you keep at it.

Judi Lynn

(160,672 posts)
64. The twitter post is repeating information which was published already some time ago.
Sat Jan 26, 2019, 01:02 AM
Jan 2019

The information it contains has already been read repeatedly since originally published in other sources, of course.

You're not getting any traction with that attempt to mock me.

 

Perseus

(4,341 posts)
13. Maduro cheats, its a well know fact, exit numbers were all in favour of Capriles
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 01:02 PM
Jan 2019

Capriles won in the last election but the cheating happened. The CNE is controlled by the government and they even had trouble justifying the numbers.

Not sure if you understand, or just trolling on behalf of the maduro government, but the regime in Venezuela is a dictatorship, they control the legislative and everything else, the woman who has been the head of the CNE is part of the government, they are all getting rich by robbing the country, so they don't want to let go. Also, they (maduro, diosdado cabello, padrino, etc.) are all involved in narco traffic, kidnapping, money laundering, etc. they cannot leave the country because they will be apprehended...Are you aware of all these?

As I always tell people who may not live there or who might have never visited Venezuela, go and see for yourself, if you are lucky enough to get back alive, tell us about it.

If you look at pictures at the voting places you will find out that they were empty, the numbers are all made up, I have not read the article in your link, but not sure why the Washington post would claim something like that.

I have lived in Venezuela, I know how things are there first hand.

Farmer-Rick

(10,240 posts)
22. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no one voted and the government didn't even conduct an election.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 02:38 PM
Jan 2019

Geez what other propaganda do you subscribe to?

EX500rider

(10,891 posts)
30. Well we can take your word for it with the zero proof you have offered...
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 04:36 PM
Jan 2019

...or listen to the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights Zeid Ra'ad al-Hussein stated that the election "does not in any way fulfill minimal conditions for free and credible elections"

Farmer-Rick

(10,240 posts)
20. That is not true even WaPo claimed it wasn't that bad...don't buy the propaganda
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 02:32 PM
Jan 2019

Like the US bought the Russian propaganda.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
9. Keep in mind this is a situation where I think a US backed coup is mostly a good idea
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 11:29 AM
Jan 2019

Particularly given that Russia just got a shit ton of oil and a warm-water submarine port (and probably a nuke platform)

Doesn't change the fact that by jumping in with both feet immediately we botched this. Timing is everything.

 

Perseus

(4,341 posts)
15. Correct, you hit the nail in the head
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 01:11 PM
Jan 2019

The same as Fidel Castro's wet dream was to take on Venezuela, Putin's is to take on the USA, he wants to be remembered as "Vladimir The Great", and for him to do that he must own the USA, Venezuela represents a great bridge for him.

As Castro did by getting a puppet in Venezuela, and lets be clear that the moment Chavez decided to do things on his own is the moment Castro decided to get rid of him. Chavez was an idealist, in his crooked way I think he wanted to do good things for Venezuela, he just surrounded himself with crooks, including Castro. Well, Putin found his idiot in trump, and if the USA military, and intelligence agencies do not wake up, Putin will do the same in the USA.

For those who think it cannot happen here, please believe that it can. We are in trouble right now, if trump stays in power things are going to get really bad, the same with some of the republican crooks, they need to be outed.

Farmer-Rick

(10,240 posts)
21. Really you want other countries to instigate coups in foreign lands?
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 02:35 PM
Jan 2019

How about Russia supporting a coup in the US? You like that idea too? I'm sure Traitor Trump will support that grand idea too.

 

Devil Child

(2,728 posts)
68. When has a US backed coup ever produced a positive outcome?
Sat Jan 26, 2019, 02:52 PM
Jan 2019

The Monroe-Doctrine mindset in regards to the Americas needs to disappear.

EX500rider

(10,891 posts)
31. Chavez has been dead for awhile and his successor has ruined the country...and stole the election.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 04:41 PM
Jan 2019
The United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights Zeid Ra'ad al-Hussein stated that the election "does not in any way fulfill minimal conditions for free and credible elections

Venezuelans reported losing on average 11 kilograms (24 lbs) in body weight last year and almost 90 percent now live in poverty.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-food/venezuelans-report-big-weight-losses-in-2017-as-hunger-hits-idUSKCN1G52HA
 

juxtaposed

(2,778 posts)
35. and that was accomplished by the r/w fasists in Caracas. If the right wing could have gotten away
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 04:48 PM
Jan 2019

with 40lbs they would have!

EX500rider

(10,891 posts)
36. Right, poorly thought out government polices had nothing to do with it...lol
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 04:56 PM
Jan 2019

Price controls during rampant inflation making the shelves bare...check
Over printing money causing the million % inflation...check
Ridiculous multi-level currency controls ensuring no dollars to buy imports...check
Confiscation of foreign property driving off investment...check
Firing competent oil workers and substituting lackeys, ensuring oil production drops...check
Failing to diversify the economy from oil...check
Failing to invest in electrical infrastructure resulting in rolling blackouts...check
Pricing gas so low it's all black marketed to neighboring countries...check

I could go on if you like...

Which of those winning policies were done by "R/W fascists" exactly?

EX500rider

(10,891 posts)
40. So all those Venezuelan govt polices are working out well are they?
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 05:13 PM
Jan 2019

I guess the whole country decided to go on a year long fast at the same time, and go live in another country for the fun of it.

 

juxtaposed

(2,778 posts)
43. No one asked the rich SOB fasicists to moved to the US and bring their money too.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 05:23 PM
Jan 2019

Also why have quit a few of the x-patriots have been seen at Fort Benning.

EX500rider

(10,891 posts)
45. Really, people don't want to stay in a country with no food & medicine?
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 05:57 PM
Jan 2019

And a million+ inflation?
Hard to believe.

FBaggins

(26,789 posts)
5. How many non-governmental US citizens could be left in Venezuela?
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 10:32 AM
Jan 2019

Why would anyone want to go there if they didn't have to?

haele

(12,693 posts)
12. Off the top of my head - aid workers, artists, researchers.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 12:55 PM
Jan 2019

- Oil and construction advisors or workers. Oil is still big business.
- Environmentalists. Venezuela has a wealth of area that is still somewhat unexplored.
- U.S. citizens who are just "kicking around" looking for interesting places to be. Venezuela has a rich cultural heritage; our family is friends with a San Diego-born and based rapper who spends a lot of time in Chile, Venezuela, Argentina, and the 'gauys working and recording with local groups in those locations.
- Journalists and students there for the history or current affairs.
- Aid workers providing education, medical, and other community services work who are Americans.
- U.S. citizens who support the regime.
- and finally, U.S. Citizens with family still in Venezuela who might be there to take care of ailing relatives or a family business.

Americans are everywhere in the world for various reasons. Just because a country is an economic "shithole" in the government's mind doesn't mean that U.S. citizens aren't there in some numbers for business, curiosity, or heritage.

Haele


FBaggins

(26,789 posts)
16. Certainly not oil workers
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 02:05 PM
Jan 2019

Venezuela's oil production has been collapsing largely because they can't even keep their own oil workers. Their skills are too valuable, so the workers flee to countries that pay in currency that isn't collapsing due to hyperinflation (Venezuela is starting to look like the Weimar Republic was on the gold standard by comparison). The government-owned oil company can't possibly afford to import US labor.

All versions of tourist/student/it's a lovely country/etc. are true enough... It's a magnificent country in terms of natural beauty... but that suffers from the reality that it isn't a safe country to travel to. Travel advisories are hardly a new thing because of extreme levels of violent crime, decline in even the most basic living conditions (even hotels were rationing toilet paper over a year ago), Zika infections, shortages of food, potable water, medicines, etc... We could go on.

Let's just say that they haven't been a Spring Break destination for some time.

Aid workers also would make sense IF Maduro hadn't rejected them months ago (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/diplomats-urge-venezuela-allow-humanitarian-aid-alleviate-crisis-n907056)

EX500rider

(10,891 posts)
32. "U.S. citizens who are just "kicking around" looking for interesting places to be"
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 04:45 PM
Jan 2019

You might as well vacation in Syria or Somalia.
Caracas ties for #1 in most dangerous city in the world:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_murder_rate

 

juxtaposed

(2,778 posts)
26. This attempted coup has been being pushed for a few years by a couple DU members.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 04:05 PM
Jan 2019

it's always good to see what will happen if the Right Wing fasicts take over the country again. The constitution will be dissolved and more than 3/4 of the population will be disenfranchised.
We are getting ready to see neoliberalism economics on steroids, with more blood and deaths than have been seen in decades.



Oil, Rare earth minerals


 

juxtaposed

(2,778 posts)
37. you have not read the news over the past few years? The R/W of Caracus and money handlers
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 05:01 PM
Jan 2019

have held back most food items, and still he won the election. The population knows if there is a coup they will be on the short end of anything.

EX500rider

(10,891 posts)
38. The reason any food is being "held back" is due to government price controls..
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 05:05 PM
Jan 2019

...during rampant inflation...also cause by the govt.
It turns out buying stuff and then being forced to sell it under cost by the govt is a bad long term business plan...who knew?!

EX500rider

(10,891 posts)
42. lol, so are you saying there is no inflation AND price controls in Venz?
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 05:17 PM
Jan 2019

Then you would be wrong....so wrong.

Shortages in Venezuela of regulated food staples and basic necessities have been widespread following the enactment of price controls and other policies under the government of Hugo Chávez[4][5] and exacerbated by the policy of withholding United States dollars from importers under the government of Nicolás Maduro.[6] The severity of the shortages has led to the largest refugee crisis ever recorded in the Americas.[7][8][9] The Bolivarian government's denial of the crisis[10] and its refusal to accept offers of aid from Amnesty International, the United Nations, and other groups has made conditions even worse.[11][12][12][13] The United Nations and the Organization of American States have stated that the shortages have resulted in unnecessary deaths in Venezuela and urged the government to accept humanitarian aid.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shortages_in_Venezuela

 

juxtaposed

(2,778 posts)
51. no one would ever post that and no one would ever post a contrived graf put out by a right wing
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 06:35 PM
Jan 2019

organization. Nice try though.

EX500rider

(10,891 posts)
53. Feel free to find a SINGLE graph that shows no rampant inflation in Venz.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 06:38 PM
Jan 2019

Amazingly fact free posts from the maduro supporters.

 

juxtaposed

(2,778 posts)
56. u seem to be the only one, An old tactic to pull infiltrators from hiding is to let them do all the
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 07:28 PM
Jan 2019

talking. As everyone else just observes.

EX500rider

(10,891 posts)
67. "What no one reads the news anymore?" Feel free to show some "news" that backs you..
Sat Jan 26, 2019, 02:40 PM
Jan 2019

....and not a blog or Venz. mouthpiece.

Judi Lynn

(160,672 posts)
50. The right-wing oligarchs have always had US support, heavy support, material and other, enforcing
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 06:19 PM
Jan 2019

their power, offering plans, offering covert help in so many forms.

Saw this article a short time ago after reading through this thread, and seeing your comments. This excerpt refers to US support, which you've mentioned already:

JANUARY 25, 2019
‘Resistance’ Media Side With Trump to Promote Coup in Venezuela
ALAN MACLEOD

. . .

Ignoring the US Role
The Times article also provides the context of the dire economic circumstances the country finds itself in, suggesting that this was the reason people are in the streets, and not in response to Trump’s call: “Citizens of what was once one of the region’s wealthiest nations, endowed with plentiful oil, have starved to death and died from preventable diseases,” the piece claimed. It fails to acknowledge the substantial US role in Venezuela’s economic and political crisis.

Trump ramped up the Obama administration’s sanctions, an action that caused Venezuelan oil production to plummet (FAIR.org, 12/17/18) and the economy to nosedive. Furthermore, US economic warfare against the country has cut Venezuela off from global capital markets—with the Trump administration threatening bankers with 30 years in prison if they negotiate with Caracas a standard restructuring of its debt (AlterNet, 11/13/17). The UN Human Rights Council formally condemned the US, noting that the sanctions target “the poor and most vulnerable classes,” called on all member states to break them, and even began discussing reparations the US should pay to Venezuela.

The US has long supported regime change in Venezuela, going back at least to the abortive coup against President Hugo Chavez in 2002. It has also spent a fortune through the National Endowment for Democracy and USAID to prop up opposition groups inside the country. Trump recently appointed neocon Iraq War architect John Bolton as national security advisor, who wasted little time in declaring Venezuela, Cuba and Nicaragua a “troika of tyranny,” echoing the infamous “axis of evil” moniker he employed during the Iraq War. Yet this crucial context in understanding the situation is missing from news accounts.

More:
https://fair.org/home/resistance-media-side-with-trump-to-promote-coup-in-venezuela/


Thank you for your posts, so , far, far more valuable than the overly present attempts to mold public perception to support the military/industrial complex.

Judi Lynn

(160,672 posts)
47. As everyone knows the light-skinned European-descended oligarchs have always controlled the country.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 06:01 PM
Jan 2019

It would take someone deeply stupid to have never realized it, even without following the history of the rape and pillage of the Americas.

EX500rider

(10,891 posts)
58. You both don't seem to grasp that EVERYBODY is now poor in Venz.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 08:10 PM
Jan 2019

Black, white and brown, the only "oligarchs" are in the upper parts of the govt.


Venezuelans reported losing on average 11 kilograms (24 lbs) in body weight last year and almost 90 percent now live in poverty.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-food/venezuelans-report-big-weight-losses-in-2017-as-hunger-hits-idUSKCN1G52HA

Judi Lynn

(160,672 posts)
63. You're staking your credibility upon a report created by 3 elitist universities in Venezuela?
Sat Jan 26, 2019, 12:56 AM
Jan 2019

What about that doesn't make sense?

I took a quick look at good old Andrés Bello Catholic University. Got to see that some graduates there are Venezuela's most extreme oligarchic brats who've barged into Venezuelan politics for the oligarchs, sweet little María Corina Machado, one of the most devious politicians in the world, and ultra-rich cheeseball brat, Henrique Capriles.

Among its notable graduates are: José Antonio Abreu (orchestra conductor, economist, political activist), Milos Alcalay (Venezuelan diplomat), Édgar Ramírez (journalist and actor), María Corina Machado, (Assembly member, founder of Súmate), and Henrique Capriles (lawyer and governor).




Maria, being entertained so long ago, invited to meet Dubya personally,
who has also been handed buttloads of US taxpayers' hard-earned tax
dollars for her dirty little "democratic" "non-profit" organization designed
to scheme their way back into power. Disgusting, treacherous dipstick.





Henrique Capriles, opposition's idea of a Presidential candidate
Entitled, pampered, slimy brat, expected to be handed a country
which has always been massively poor, with ALL the wealth controlled
by European- descended pale racist a-holes, the same people who
used to mock Chavez and call him a "monkey" or "gorilla" and mock
his mannerisms, and dark skin, believing him not to be in any way their
equal.

Some ruling class to worship, apparently, for people with the same morals.

EX500rider

(10,891 posts)
65. So can't disprove anything they said so throw mud and hope nobody notices? lol
Sat Jan 26, 2019, 02:08 AM
Jan 2019

Feel free to check out what Reporters Without Borders and Human Rights Watch has to say about Venz.s current govt...or are they in on the plot also? And the UN...and The EU but hey, you've got Russia, N Korea and Iran on your side so there's that.

EX500rider

(10,891 posts)
69. "You're staking your credibility upon a report created by 3 elitist universities"
Sat Jan 26, 2019, 02:53 PM
Jan 2019

Feel free to post some articles from well known news sources that show how rosy thing are in Venz.

How about Human Rights Watch?

Most Venezuelans go to bed hungry or are eating less due to food shortages, and moderate to severe malnutrition of children under 5 increased in 2017. Venezuela’s health minister released data last year indicating that, in 2016, maternal mortality increased 65 percent, infant mortality 30 percent, and malaria cases 76 percent.
Mr. Maduro’s government denies that the humanitarian crisis exists. The truth is that failed government policy has ruined the economy, resulting in hyperinflation and severe shortages, and millions of Venezuelans cannot afford to buy food on the open market. Government-controlled rations are their only option.

Yet instead of allowing government-issued boxes of food to be sold by supermarkets, the Maduro regime has been using the military and its supporters to distribute them. Through this system — in which food distribution is controlled by government allies, people who tend to punish government critics — the Venezuelan authorities are using hunger as a mechanism of social and political control.


https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/05/18/hostages-hunger-venezuela

 

juxtaposed

(2,778 posts)
48. You know as most do that is true. It is the foundation of what is going on.
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 06:06 PM
Jan 2019

I would like to see the ppl. hold control of the government. Not just rich ppl. in Caracus.

 

ripcord

(5,553 posts)
59. Am I the only one who finds Maduro supporters are kind of scary?
Fri Jan 25, 2019, 08:37 PM
Jan 2019

It is almost like dealing with Trump supporters.

EX500rider

(10,891 posts)
66. Worse I'd say. Mostly dyed in the wool Marxists who miss the good ole days of the USSR.
Sat Jan 26, 2019, 11:40 AM
Jan 2019

Never any facts but lots of buzz words they love like "oligarchs" & "propaganda". Which would be fine if they could ever back up a single allegation.
They by necessity have to pass over and ignore the posts with questions over what horrible current facts about Venz. aren't true.
But yeah, the scary kind of "The End Justifies the Means" people who think Cuba is a vibrant Democracy.

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